TRACTIONMONSTER part of the solution
01-25-2008, 11:18 PM
#1
Tech Contributor
Thread Starter
TRACTIONMONSTER part of the solution
Before you read and ask: NO, THERE ISNT A REPRODUCTION/AFTERMARKET WHEEL THAT FITS OR I WOULDNT HAVE MADE THIS THREAD.
Before getting into this write-up, I would like to tell each person reading that a big part of my motivation is the St. Judes fundraising effort on this board. I dont think its much of a reach to understand why this cause is so important but unless you suffer such a painful loss as a result of a childnood destroyed by various illnesses I dont think you could see it from the point of view of it happening to your world. The death of a child in your life changes you forever and I will never be able to relay the pain associated with it. Take a monemt and send 20 bucks to this charity. You wont even have to do anything more than you do in posting on your computer on this forum. Its the best thing you can do to help this world and make my efforts here more worthwhile. We have the means to send robots to mars so I believe we can beat cancer, sudden infant death, and form new medications. I find it odd that it has to happen to your car before most people recogize a risk some part has to pose before you upgrade to better parts but we are doomed if we have to have things like these illnesses hit out homes before we take the steps to save a life.
---------------Make a difference TODAY------------------
This year you can donate in 3 ways:
1) Personal checks, cashier checks, or money orders, made out to: St. Jude Children's Hospital and mailed to "pewter99,":
Robert Briggs
P.O. Box 17083
Clearwater Fl 33762
Please put your forum name on the memo line of the check
2) paypal: corvettes4stjude@aol.com
The following is a condensed version of the original post due to several questions and comments that came up along the way in the thread. All of my mods, listed below (except gearring and a Lev4 transmission were done by me.
The purpose of the thread:
After modding, engine power output is far beyond what GM had intended when it designed the suspension and tire set-up choices for the base and Z51 C6's. Once modded, none of the power is useful if you cant get it to the ground. I have the following mods:
Cam
LS3 Heads
Ported L76 manifold
LG headers
Z06 mufflers/NPP controller-no power but fun
60lb injectors
Z06 100mm MAF
4.10 gears-2004 Z06 differential
N2O 35 wet shot. The MAF is maxxed out from the S/C
17psi boost from PAXTON ECS kit....just awesome
SPEC twin disc clutch
ported TB
Those who have been in the car know where my screen name came from. When riding in my first modded C5, my son was overwhelmed and said, "Wow, this thing is a spin monster."
While burn-outs are cool, the car isnt moving forward if its spinning tires. Roll on races of course dont need nearly the traction that you need at legal speeds so many dont care. I dont play in the 50mph-150mph arena so for me its 0-80?
I didnt want to give up anything in handling. This is a corvette and outhandles other sad cars so I want to maintain the ability to corner at least as well or better than it did before traction is improved.
The Research
I spoke to numerous road race guys and asked about various tire experiences and suspension mods they did as well as power produced in relation to these other variables. In general one tire kept comming up in conversation. The Nitto 555R2. It is a drag compound but has a stiff sidewall so there is no deteriorization of the handling ability of the car. Another aspect of the tire choice is that although it has what is characterized by Nitto as a hard ride, I found the 18" tire which has a taller sidewall making up for the smaller rim and keeping the same overall diameter, to be a better/more comfy ride than the stock 285 runflat which has a very hard ride. Unlike so many other road race R compound tires, these are actually designed for wet competition driving too so I have no fear of getting caught in the rain. It is on par with many normal tires out there. Just as a FYI, street tires, regarless of size will not outperform an R coumound tire at any size. So before you think that a 345 pilot sport 2 street tire will better this one, think again. A 325 Z06 runflat is hardly any imporvement over a 285 and those of you that did the Z06 fender conversion know this to be true. I have friends with 415rwhp and stock gears that break traction in seocnd on a throttle roll-in with the 325's. Also, the actual tread width of a 305 road race tire is pretty close to a 325 street tire. Basically an R compound is 300% better than a street tire and a 325 is maybe 20% better than a 285. Now that the scale is in your mind lets move on.
The longevity is next on the minds of the practical minded. I dont consider it a performance category and if it were an issue, I would say to leave you car stock but in this case there is an argument to defned the tire to many people. I typically get about 6k miles out of the rear runflats which are 8 or 9/32nds tread. These are 6/32'nds. Most road race tires are 4/32'nds. Since the majority of the wear I get from the runflats is that I sand them down in 3 gears trying to get on the hiway, the wear isnt really normal. I have let some people drive my car and wheel spin is unavoidable. When I went to these tires, there isnt any spining; even on turns. The lack of spinning is actually going to let me get what the other people I know with them get. Thats would be 8k miles at the wear bars. The tire is fine for use after that but not in rain. Guys that use them for track use would still buy them for 100 each so there is life after that. Anyway for me it represents a 25% increase in life but for a stock car or one with 400rwhp or less, the stock runflats will likely last longer. Like valve springs, dont do the mod if you dont like the longevity issues of some parts.
How to Mount the chosen tires
Before you read and ask: NO, THERE ISNT A REPRODUCTION/AFTERMARKET WHEEL THAT FITS OR I WOULDNT HAVE MADE THIS THREAD.
Many people try to mount track tires with really bad reproductions that aftermarket companies have absolutely resfused to adjust to make a wheel with actual C6 off sets. For a long time House of Wheels and other companies said the offsets were the same and then they started to admit the wheels stick out a bit in the back. In actual use most of these wheel are heavier (up to 5 pounds each), weaker gravity forged manufacturing, and they stick out up to 1/4 inch beyond the fender especially when using a tire that bulges by being mounted on a rim that is smaller than the optimum size.
The OEM wheels by comparison are lighter, stronger, and match the style of the car. In other words, they look OEM/sleeper.
Widening a wheel for hard track/racing duty--or the street
Weldcraft wheels is a company that repairs, widens, narrows, and can actually add a lip to wheels that dont have one. I have been a prior customer and 20years ago I had wheels widened for 1/4 track use with a 1968 Dart with a 426 13.5:1 compression motor making 765rwhp and 825rwtq. Limited track time trying to use a 300 shot produced lots of smoke and lots of broken parts but the wheels on that car are on it today and never broke. Welded/widened wheels are strong and will not break with anything a corvette can do to them.
Welded weels arent weak. There has never been a failure that I am aware of. In contrast, I have seen replica wheels crack at the spokes with mildly modded 400rwhp corvettes.
For this project, I sent 2 front 18x8.5 wheels to get widened to 11" so there would be no compromises with the wheel sticking out, weakness, or color match. The cost of the wheels was 200 shipped from a forum member. They arrived looking factory new. Weldcraft charged me 450 shipped to me and it was 30 to ship to them via FED-ex. In 2 weeks time the wheels were returned to me. Weldcraft had taped the face of the wheel so the wideneing process would not damage the paint so I didnt have to pay for the wheel to be refinished.
Other facts about widening.
Chrome needs to be removed so it can be welded so that is an extra cost.
Widened wheels are not weaker than stock. Widened wheels are strong enough for 1200 HP.
Dont ship your center caps with the wheels. I didnt get mine back yet.
They check and fix runout problems and the wheel will balance perfectly when you get it back.
Once mounted they looked like this:
Now keep in mind these arent a weekend tire swap set for the weekend trip to the track. I wanted a perfectly stock looking set-up that was 100% permanant. This is everyday and had to look like the car came this way.
As you can see there is no tire or wheel part out beyond the fender. There is no compromise as far as quality, fit, or strength.
This is my permanant wheel tire combo. All areas of performance are improved. Handling and traction were both improved. My level of wheel spin killed runflats in 5-6k miles so the abiltity for this tire to get closer to 8k as owners have informed me, is a welcome relief.
I dont drive in the rain nor do I consider wet traction/handing to be a performance consideration. These tires are the best in their category for this purpose if you so choose to run them in the rain. I do not consider driving effort or ride comfort to be performance consideration either. I personall feel that the tire is a more comfortable ride based on my 300 miles with them so far. I believe this is because the sidewall is taller compared to the stock 19" runflats. As I said this is my everyday tire/wheel combo. I wanted it to look stock, perform better than stock and fit properly without sticking out beyond the fender.
For those that havent followed the thread in its prior form, I wasnt looking for an easy way out, or a cheaper way out so dotn bother telling me I could have used xyz chinese reprodcution wheel that was only a bit smaller and sticks out only a 1/4 inch. I spent a total of 700 for the wheels and the reproductions are 500 shipped so for the 200 I am happy.
The rear tires for me are Nitto 555 R2 305/35/18. 7 members that ran this tire including 2 cars I was in verify the superiority of the amount better. Although disenting opinions exist about the validity or accuracy of the car's onboard G-meter, it can be used to note a CHANGE in performance in that if you alwasy saw .98 with noises and discomfort in the confidence of the limits, then you see 1.15 to 1.2g's for short bursts, youhave improved. Take it with a grain of salt that it isnt comparable to skid pad tests done by major magazines and if anyone wants to do such tests, be my guest. It doesnt change the numbers the owners of these tires got. I was in 2 cars that were modded with substantial power running the 555R2 all corners. Those cars were the tests for me in deciding. The second had 475 rwhp through 3.73's and a 125 shot. The tires had great traction. Alex, who is also a forum member and drives a C5 with these tires on his H/C auto made some turns that made up my mind. Since the tires arent going to be runflats then like the C5 Z06, you should carry a flat fix kit which includes an electric air pump with latex injection capabiliity. A what the what??? This thing:
It fills the tire with a latex tire pressure sensor monitor safe, latex that gets removed when you take the tire for an inside patch. It lets you run with a nail or puncture to the tire and not have to swap it out or call for a tow truck. Happy day. I got it from WWW.tirerack.COM for 70 bucks and its a life saver. You can swap it into other vehicles for safety on the hiway with anything...truck, vette, scooter...
The Nitto555R2:
In no part of this thread d shoudl anyone think that using a car to perform to these max abilities will be kind to wheel bearings.
The 11" wide rim will touch the upper control arm when the car is fully jacked up but in 300 miles has never touched the control arm in harsh use including speed bumps, steep driveway threasholds and displacement at speed. And trust me, I was trying to make it hit. Shock travel limiters from Lingenfelter can limt the suspenstion travel in actual use. On the street I see no need for them. Get them if you cant sleep.
No wheel spacers were used to mount any of the wheels. The wheels have air pressure sensors and I bought the program tool. Sensors are 110 shipped for 2 and the program tool is available for 140 from wright tool company: 800-783-9826.
Cheap outs get you headaches. Get cheap repros it wont look right. Skipping pressure sensor programmer makes you a begger for borrowing one.
Cost of wheel-tire mod: 1400
Traction off the line: priceless
After the break in period
Off the truck, so to speak, no tire is at peak when you do your first drive with them. I was actually scared when I first put them on and quietly drove up the street to the main road (runway). I swith my bi-mode exhaust out of stealth run drive, to get the sound fitting a great cam lope and a car capable of warp 9, and just pushed down to 1/4 throttle. I was waiting for the g-forces of traction I had felt in other cars with these tires and.....the tires broke loose. I thought,"Well it was a good idea anyway." I drove for a few minutes not doing any burn-outs just to get them to running temperature. I switched my exhaust back to stealthy and tucked my tail between my legs pondering the money that could have been better used. I'm not a rich guy but I generally dont have to keep an eye on the bank balance when I want to eat out or take my girl out, but I dont like wasting money. I am a big hearted guy and would have felt better giving the money to charity rather than get a tire with little gained and only 6/32'nds tread on it. I did some turns and then realized the other side of performance that was working right out of the box: handling. It was awesome. No brakes and I just pull down on the steering wheel to make a tunr and there isnt any sign of distress with these tires. I made my way to the hiway ramps that had no guard rails and tried to get it to break loose but it wouldnt. Here's the tech side of it: Tires, especially race application tires, need to be heat cycled. Excuse the crude expalnation but a tire when first manufactured is like a series of random direction rubber bands and they have weak bonds to each other. When you heat a tire for the first time, the tire breaks these bonds and becoems softer. Over a 24-48hr period while you resist driving the car these bonds reform during the cooling process and the bonds are much stronger. As a result the wear is much longer (important to the wallet) and the performance is improved 100 fold (important to the ego). Although the tires performed great in handling and they even had much better traction than stock runflats, the real performance wasnt seen untill the 2nd and 3rd driving sessions. The traction had gone from 20 or 30% imporved over the runflats to 300%. Now before you start saying wow, Mr Exaggeration, thats great, I will quantify it for you. I used to be able to spin the tires on just motor at 70 or 80mph in 3rd gear. Within 2 days of install which was 2 heat cycles, the car was able to almost stick 2nd gear and it was handling a 75 shot in 3rd with traction. Now for those not nitrous savy, a 75 shot is 90HP and 140-150 TQ to the wheels. Nuff said?
ROUND2: Mickey Thompson ET streets
Once power was bumped over 700 to the wheels the Nittos were just not doing the job so a set of 305/35/18 ET streets were put on. Handling is out of the equation but the straights are magic. This tire is the end of the line for traction off the line. Lots of upset all-wheel drive owners around here.
Pics of the Et streets on the car:
Before you read and ask: NO, THERE ISNT A REPRODUCTION/AFTERMARKET WHEEL THAT FITS OR I WOULDNT HAVE MADE THIS THREAD.
Ca va?
Before getting into this write-up, I would like to tell each person reading that a big part of my motivation is the St. Judes fundraising effort on this board. I dont think its much of a reach to understand why this cause is so important but unless you suffer such a painful loss as a result of a childnood destroyed by various illnesses I dont think you could see it from the point of view of it happening to your world. The death of a child in your life changes you forever and I will never be able to relay the pain associated with it. Take a monemt and send 20 bucks to this charity. You wont even have to do anything more than you do in posting on your computer on this forum. Its the best thing you can do to help this world and make my efforts here more worthwhile. We have the means to send robots to mars so I believe we can beat cancer, sudden infant death, and form new medications. I find it odd that it has to happen to your car before most people recogize a risk some part has to pose before you upgrade to better parts but we are doomed if we have to have things like these illnesses hit out homes before we take the steps to save a life.
---------------Make a difference TODAY------------------
This year you can donate in 3 ways:
1) Personal checks, cashier checks, or money orders, made out to: St. Jude Children's Hospital and mailed to "pewter99,":
Robert Briggs
P.O. Box 17083
Clearwater Fl 33762
Please put your forum name on the memo line of the check
2) paypal: corvettes4stjude@aol.com
The following is a condensed version of the original post due to several questions and comments that came up along the way in the thread. All of my mods, listed below (except gearring and a Lev4 transmission were done by me.
The purpose of the thread:
After modding, engine power output is far beyond what GM had intended when it designed the suspension and tire set-up choices for the base and Z51 C6's. Once modded, none of the power is useful if you cant get it to the ground. I have the following mods:
Cam
LS3 Heads
Ported L76 manifold
LG headers
Z06 mufflers/NPP controller-no power but fun
60lb injectors
Z06 100mm MAF
4.10 gears-2004 Z06 differential
N2O 35 wet shot. The MAF is maxxed out from the S/C
17psi boost from PAXTON ECS kit....just awesome
SPEC twin disc clutch
ported TB
Those who have been in the car know where my screen name came from. When riding in my first modded C5, my son was overwhelmed and said, "Wow, this thing is a spin monster."
While burn-outs are cool, the car isnt moving forward if its spinning tires. Roll on races of course dont need nearly the traction that you need at legal speeds so many dont care. I dont play in the 50mph-150mph arena so for me its 0-80?
I didnt want to give up anything in handling. This is a corvette and outhandles other sad cars so I want to maintain the ability to corner at least as well or better than it did before traction is improved.
The Research
I spoke to numerous road race guys and asked about various tire experiences and suspension mods they did as well as power produced in relation to these other variables. In general one tire kept comming up in conversation. The Nitto 555R2. It is a drag compound but has a stiff sidewall so there is no deteriorization of the handling ability of the car. Another aspect of the tire choice is that although it has what is characterized by Nitto as a hard ride, I found the 18" tire which has a taller sidewall making up for the smaller rim and keeping the same overall diameter, to be a better/more comfy ride than the stock 285 runflat which has a very hard ride. Unlike so many other road race R compound tires, these are actually designed for wet competition driving too so I have no fear of getting caught in the rain. It is on par with many normal tires out there. Just as a FYI, street tires, regarless of size will not outperform an R coumound tire at any size. So before you think that a 345 pilot sport 2 street tire will better this one, think again. A 325 Z06 runflat is hardly any imporvement over a 285 and those of you that did the Z06 fender conversion know this to be true. I have friends with 415rwhp and stock gears that break traction in seocnd on a throttle roll-in with the 325's. Also, the actual tread width of a 305 road race tire is pretty close to a 325 street tire. Basically an R compound is 300% better than a street tire and a 325 is maybe 20% better than a 285. Now that the scale is in your mind lets move on.
The longevity is next on the minds of the practical minded. I dont consider it a performance category and if it were an issue, I would say to leave you car stock but in this case there is an argument to defned the tire to many people. I typically get about 6k miles out of the rear runflats which are 8 or 9/32nds tread. These are 6/32'nds. Most road race tires are 4/32'nds. Since the majority of the wear I get from the runflats is that I sand them down in 3 gears trying to get on the hiway, the wear isnt really normal. I have let some people drive my car and wheel spin is unavoidable. When I went to these tires, there isnt any spining; even on turns. The lack of spinning is actually going to let me get what the other people I know with them get. Thats would be 8k miles at the wear bars. The tire is fine for use after that but not in rain. Guys that use them for track use would still buy them for 100 each so there is life after that. Anyway for me it represents a 25% increase in life but for a stock car or one with 400rwhp or less, the stock runflats will likely last longer. Like valve springs, dont do the mod if you dont like the longevity issues of some parts.
How to Mount the chosen tires
Before you read and ask: NO, THERE ISNT A REPRODUCTION/AFTERMARKET WHEEL THAT FITS OR I WOULDNT HAVE MADE THIS THREAD.
Many people try to mount track tires with really bad reproductions that aftermarket companies have absolutely resfused to adjust to make a wheel with actual C6 off sets. For a long time House of Wheels and other companies said the offsets were the same and then they started to admit the wheels stick out a bit in the back. In actual use most of these wheel are heavier (up to 5 pounds each), weaker gravity forged manufacturing, and they stick out up to 1/4 inch beyond the fender especially when using a tire that bulges by being mounted on a rim that is smaller than the optimum size.
The OEM wheels by comparison are lighter, stronger, and match the style of the car. In other words, they look OEM/sleeper.
Widening a wheel for hard track/racing duty--or the street
Weldcraft wheels is a company that repairs, widens, narrows, and can actually add a lip to wheels that dont have one. I have been a prior customer and 20years ago I had wheels widened for 1/4 track use with a 1968 Dart with a 426 13.5:1 compression motor making 765rwhp and 825rwtq. Limited track time trying to use a 300 shot produced lots of smoke and lots of broken parts but the wheels on that car are on it today and never broke. Welded/widened wheels are strong and will not break with anything a corvette can do to them.
Welded weels arent weak. There has never been a failure that I am aware of. In contrast, I have seen replica wheels crack at the spokes with mildly modded 400rwhp corvettes.
For this project, I sent 2 front 18x8.5 wheels to get widened to 11" so there would be no compromises with the wheel sticking out, weakness, or color match. The cost of the wheels was 200 shipped from a forum member. They arrived looking factory new. Weldcraft charged me 450 shipped to me and it was 30 to ship to them via FED-ex. In 2 weeks time the wheels were returned to me. Weldcraft had taped the face of the wheel so the wideneing process would not damage the paint so I didnt have to pay for the wheel to be refinished.
Other facts about widening.
Chrome needs to be removed so it can be welded so that is an extra cost.
Widened wheels are not weaker than stock. Widened wheels are strong enough for 1200 HP.
Dont ship your center caps with the wheels. I didnt get mine back yet.
They check and fix runout problems and the wheel will balance perfectly when you get it back.
Once mounted they looked like this:
Now keep in mind these arent a weekend tire swap set for the weekend trip to the track. I wanted a perfectly stock looking set-up that was 100% permanant. This is everyday and had to look like the car came this way.
As you can see there is no tire or wheel part out beyond the fender. There is no compromise as far as quality, fit, or strength.
This is my permanant wheel tire combo. All areas of performance are improved. Handling and traction were both improved. My level of wheel spin killed runflats in 5-6k miles so the abiltity for this tire to get closer to 8k as owners have informed me, is a welcome relief.
I dont drive in the rain nor do I consider wet traction/handing to be a performance consideration. These tires are the best in their category for this purpose if you so choose to run them in the rain. I do not consider driving effort or ride comfort to be performance consideration either. I personall feel that the tire is a more comfortable ride based on my 300 miles with them so far. I believe this is because the sidewall is taller compared to the stock 19" runflats. As I said this is my everyday tire/wheel combo. I wanted it to look stock, perform better than stock and fit properly without sticking out beyond the fender.
For those that havent followed the thread in its prior form, I wasnt looking for an easy way out, or a cheaper way out so dotn bother telling me I could have used xyz chinese reprodcution wheel that was only a bit smaller and sticks out only a 1/4 inch. I spent a total of 700 for the wheels and the reproductions are 500 shipped so for the 200 I am happy.
The rear tires for me are Nitto 555 R2 305/35/18. 7 members that ran this tire including 2 cars I was in verify the superiority of the amount better. Although disenting opinions exist about the validity or accuracy of the car's onboard G-meter, it can be used to note a CHANGE in performance in that if you alwasy saw .98 with noises and discomfort in the confidence of the limits, then you see 1.15 to 1.2g's for short bursts, youhave improved. Take it with a grain of salt that it isnt comparable to skid pad tests done by major magazines and if anyone wants to do such tests, be my guest. It doesnt change the numbers the owners of these tires got. I was in 2 cars that were modded with substantial power running the 555R2 all corners. Those cars were the tests for me in deciding. The second had 475 rwhp through 3.73's and a 125 shot. The tires had great traction. Alex, who is also a forum member and drives a C5 with these tires on his H/C auto made some turns that made up my mind. Since the tires arent going to be runflats then like the C5 Z06, you should carry a flat fix kit which includes an electric air pump with latex injection capabiliity. A what the what??? This thing:
It fills the tire with a latex tire pressure sensor monitor safe, latex that gets removed when you take the tire for an inside patch. It lets you run with a nail or puncture to the tire and not have to swap it out or call for a tow truck. Happy day. I got it from WWW.tirerack.COM for 70 bucks and its a life saver. You can swap it into other vehicles for safety on the hiway with anything...truck, vette, scooter...
The Nitto555R2:
In no part of this thread d shoudl anyone think that using a car to perform to these max abilities will be kind to wheel bearings.
The 11" wide rim will touch the upper control arm when the car is fully jacked up but in 300 miles has never touched the control arm in harsh use including speed bumps, steep driveway threasholds and displacement at speed. And trust me, I was trying to make it hit. Shock travel limiters from Lingenfelter can limt the suspenstion travel in actual use. On the street I see no need for them. Get them if you cant sleep.
No wheel spacers were used to mount any of the wheels. The wheels have air pressure sensors and I bought the program tool. Sensors are 110 shipped for 2 and the program tool is available for 140 from wright tool company: 800-783-9826.
Cheap outs get you headaches. Get cheap repros it wont look right. Skipping pressure sensor programmer makes you a begger for borrowing one.
Cost of wheel-tire mod: 1400
Traction off the line: priceless
After the break in period
Off the truck, so to speak, no tire is at peak when you do your first drive with them. I was actually scared when I first put them on and quietly drove up the street to the main road (runway). I swith my bi-mode exhaust out of stealth run drive, to get the sound fitting a great cam lope and a car capable of warp 9, and just pushed down to 1/4 throttle. I was waiting for the g-forces of traction I had felt in other cars with these tires and.....the tires broke loose. I thought,"Well it was a good idea anyway." I drove for a few minutes not doing any burn-outs just to get them to running temperature. I switched my exhaust back to stealthy and tucked my tail between my legs pondering the money that could have been better used. I'm not a rich guy but I generally dont have to keep an eye on the bank balance when I want to eat out or take my girl out, but I dont like wasting money. I am a big hearted guy and would have felt better giving the money to charity rather than get a tire with little gained and only 6/32'nds tread on it. I did some turns and then realized the other side of performance that was working right out of the box: handling. It was awesome. No brakes and I just pull down on the steering wheel to make a tunr and there isnt any sign of distress with these tires. I made my way to the hiway ramps that had no guard rails and tried to get it to break loose but it wouldnt. Here's the tech side of it: Tires, especially race application tires, need to be heat cycled. Excuse the crude expalnation but a tire when first manufactured is like a series of random direction rubber bands and they have weak bonds to each other. When you heat a tire for the first time, the tire breaks these bonds and becoems softer. Over a 24-48hr period while you resist driving the car these bonds reform during the cooling process and the bonds are much stronger. As a result the wear is much longer (important to the wallet) and the performance is improved 100 fold (important to the ego). Although the tires performed great in handling and they even had much better traction than stock runflats, the real performance wasnt seen untill the 2nd and 3rd driving sessions. The traction had gone from 20 or 30% imporved over the runflats to 300%. Now before you start saying wow, Mr Exaggeration, thats great, I will quantify it for you. I used to be able to spin the tires on just motor at 70 or 80mph in 3rd gear. Within 2 days of install which was 2 heat cycles, the car was able to almost stick 2nd gear and it was handling a 75 shot in 3rd with traction. Now for those not nitrous savy, a 75 shot is 90HP and 140-150 TQ to the wheels. Nuff said?
ROUND2: Mickey Thompson ET streets
Once power was bumped over 700 to the wheels the Nittos were just not doing the job so a set of 305/35/18 ET streets were put on. Handling is out of the equation but the straights are magic. This tire is the end of the line for traction off the line. Lots of upset all-wheel drive owners around here.
Pics of the Et streets on the car:
Before you read and ask: NO, THERE ISNT A REPRODUCTION/AFTERMARKET WHEEL THAT FITS OR I WOULDNT HAVE MADE THIS THREAD.
Ca va?
Last edited by SpinMonster; 11-14-2010 at 01:26 AM.
01-25-2008, 11:43 PM
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Good write up
01-25-2008, 11:56 PM
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St. Jude Donor '08
THE REALITY
Fast cars have traction limited acceleration no matter how much power it has. It can be a track duty forced induction car that has entitrely too much power and on the street it will rarely find that line and more importantly, will be inconsistent in allowing the driver to acheive the best acceleration possible. All too often the 750rwhp FI car owner, on street tires, will say that the weather was cold or the tires werent their chosen drag radials all of course with the same end, a lesser powered car jumped out in front of them and they couldnt get traction. Its irrelevant that the lesser powered car had cold tires on cold asphalt too. It doesnt matter that the lesser powered car never sees a track and that the track of choice may not be the 1/4 mile kind. What happened is that the tire matched the application. There is a lvel where the tire choice of limitation will mandate a maximum power output from underhood but that is a wrestling match for the owner to search for himself.
Fast cars have traction limited acceleration no matter how much power it has. It can be a track duty forced induction car that has entitrely too much power and on the street it will rarely find that line and more importantly, will be inconsistent in allowing the driver to acheive the best acceleration possible. All too often the 750rwhp FI car owner, on street tires, will say that the weather was cold or the tires werent their chosen drag radials all of course with the same end, a lesser powered car jumped out in front of them and they couldnt get traction. Its irrelevant that the lesser powered car had cold tires on cold asphalt too. It doesnt matter that the lesser powered car never sees a track and that the track of choice may not be the 1/4 mile kind. What happened is that the tire matched the application. There is a lvel where the tire choice of limitation will mandate a maximum power output from underhood but that is a wrestling match for the owner to search for himself.
great write up
01-25-2008, 11:57 PM
#4
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01-26-2008, 12:58 AM
#7
Le Mans Master
Hey Spin
Nice write up but the title should have been "Traction or lack thereof...its all in the right foot" 
................ and right about now he must be saying!...... Damn, *^%$% I knew I should have filled that bottle
Nice write up
but the title should have been "Traction or lack thereof...its all in the right foot" ................ and right about now he must be saying!...... Damn, *^%$% I knew I should have filled that bottle
01-26-2008, 01:55 AM
#8
Pro
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Good 411 My wheel/tire of choice on my C6-17x9.5s rolling on Mickey Thompson ET Street DRs P275/40R17. Plenty of sidewall for launch
Max Traction for a dry weather "street tire" for the 1320
My wheel/tire of choice on my C6-17x9.5s rolling on Mickey Thompson ET Street DRs P275/40R17. Plenty of sidewall for launch Max Traction for a dry weather "street tire" for the 1320
01-26-2008, 02:17 AM
#10
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They can be dicey if you get caught in a rain shower-Lord I know! especially here in FLA -Rain showers pop up on a Sunny day. But IMO The trade off for me is well worth it & w/ zero treadwear rating -they don't last very long, but my car isn't a daily driver.My 17x9.5 ZO6 Repros do stick out about 1/4 " but it isn't that noticeable
01-26-2008, 03:11 AM
#11
Team Owner
Wow, that looks absolutely perfect, like totally bone stock, it panned out just as you'd said it would, phenomenol stuff.
While I still contend that one might be better off going with a set of CCWs in 18" (or in 17" which would permit them to use some of the cool new 17" DR sizes out now) which could be both lighter and easier (no multiple shippings etc.) as well as worth a lot more when you're done with them for CCWs really seem to hold their value, the one thing they can't do is meet this criteria:
which is a pretty cool feature to have.
I like your set up a lot,
I just hope those 305x35x18s can harness the power at least close to as well as the 275x40x17s (what I will be running soon on my C6 mounted on C5 magnesium wheels) and 255x50x16s (what I run on my Z28) can.
While I still contend that one might be better off going with a set of CCWs in 18" (or in 17" which would permit them to use some of the cool new 17" DR sizes out now) which could be both lighter and easier (no multiple shippings etc.) as well as worth a lot more when you're done with them for CCWs really seem to hold their value, the one thing they can't do is meet this criteria:
I like your set up a lot,
I just hope those 305x35x18s can harness the power at least close to as well as the 275x40x17s (what I will be running soon on my C6 mounted on C5 magnesium wheels) and 255x50x16s (what I run on my Z28) can.
01-26-2008, 05:58 AM
#12
Tech Contributor
Spinmonster you are going to LOVE those 555Rii's if you ever get them to a road course track. You aren't going to believe what your car will do. I absolutely love the 555Rii's and have been running them for years.
You are so right about the right tires making the car. I have 3 sets of tires for my car for various venues. You don't wear spikes to a black tie event. Proper shoes for your car increase the enjoyment as much or more than the mods.
One word of warning. Don't try to go for max miles out of them if you drive in the rain. Sell them to track guys when you're into the wear bars. They are still great for track days. Only reason I say this is I watched my buddy Johnsea06 follow me through a puddle on track hydroplane and hit the wall. We weren't going fast - those tires WILL hydroplane easily when worn.
Here's the thread but his in car video is down after these years. Too bad because it happened in the blink of an eye.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1105889
You are so right about the right tires making the car. I have 3 sets of tires for my car for various venues. You don't wear spikes to a black tie event. Proper shoes for your car increase the enjoyment as much or more than the mods.
One word of warning. Don't try to go for max miles out of them if you drive in the rain. Sell them to track guys when you're into the wear bars. They are still great for track days. Only reason I say this is I watched my buddy Johnsea06 follow me through a puddle on track hydroplane and hit the wall. We weren't going fast - those tires WILL hydroplane easily when worn.
Here's the thread but his in car video is down after these years. Too bad because it happened in the blink of an eye.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1105889
01-26-2008, 08:04 AM
#13
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I dont get it. They come in a 18" 305/35 that fits the rim as I described and yet you have a wheel that you drive around on the street that is sticking out and doesnt match the fronts. Why? Can you post a picture of the set-up? Somehow I dont think I would want my car to look like that.
Its exactly why I did the thread and how to get it all to look good. It could all fit under the fender, look 100% stock and not take a chance of rubbing the paint.
Its a 50k car and to me, I would think I was taking the easy way out with no advantage other than the saved trip to FED-ex.
Its exactly why I did the thread and how to get it all to look good. It could all fit under the fender, look 100% stock and not take a chance of rubbing the paint.
Its a 50k car and to me, I would think I was taking the easy way out with no advantage other than the saved trip to FED-ex.
Does the 305/35/18 MT tire fit the STOCK C6 front wheels, or did you mean it would fit your modified C6 fronts? I ask only because I am buying some "spare" drag only tires/wheels and would like to keep it looking stock "ish".
Thanks for your very informative write up and any suggestions you may have.
Ron
01-26-2008, 08:05 AM
#14
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Feb 2006
Location: Eastern PA:ECS Paxton Novi 1500(676rwhp,585tq on stock engine),LG headers, 410's, Corsa Sports, ECS Alky Kit
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St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Great write up Spin as usual, very informative.
ps: 410's suck for traction
1-3 gear are useless
Only dopes drive without runflats
1200hp is necessary on a streetcar
Coilovers do nothing for wheelhop
Cartek catch cans aren't on their web site
LG headers are no better than anything else out there, regardless of the testing anyone has done
Rear gear choice has nothing to do with trap times
I thought I'd list some of the other pet peaves to get you torqued up a bit. Your avatar reminds me of the Incredible Hulk show, "Don't make me angry, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry"
ps: 410's suck for traction
1-3 gear are useless
Only dopes drive without runflats
1200hp is necessary on a streetcar
Coilovers do nothing for wheelhop
Cartek catch cans aren't on their web site
LG headers are no better than anything else out there, regardless of the testing anyone has done
Rear gear choice has nothing to do with trap times
I thought I'd list some of the other pet peaves to get you torqued up a bit. Your avatar reminds me of the Incredible Hulk show, "Don't make me angry, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry"
Last edited by 06.Z51.MontRed.Vert; 01-26-2008 at 08:08 AM.
01-26-2008, 09:02 AM
#15
Safety Car
Great write up...thanks for including me on the "enTIRE" process 
I love getting educated (and trying the theory on someone else's car first).
Too bad we are looking at snow showers tomorrow, maybe we can get some more cruising in during the week....as if my neck isn't suffering from whiplash enough now...
I love getting educated (and trying the theory on someone else's car first). Too bad we are looking at snow showers tomorrow, maybe we can get some more cruising in during the week....as if my neck isn't suffering from whiplash enough now...
01-26-2008, 09:34 AM
#16
Race Director
This aughta be a sticky. Seriously. It is the defintive analysis of the traction issues high -hp C6s face. Personally, I have used the Nitto R-compound tires as my #1 street tire the last 4 years (GY F1 SC EMTS still used for long road trips). Although the 305 Nitto tire is good, I plan to "move up" to the Nitto / Toyo 335/30-18 on an 11 inch rim in the near future. I would never have done this 1 year ago, due to the rim / tire "mismatch"(per spec) but I have been running Nitto drag radials ( ostensibly weak sidewall) in road racing for 4K miles and they have performed very well.
01-26-2008, 10:43 AM
#18
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I dont get it. They come in a 18" 305/35 that fits the rim as I described and yet you have a wheel that you drive around on the street that is sticking out and doesnt match the fronts. Why? Can you post a picture of the set-up? Somehow I dont think I would want my car to look like that.
Its exactly why I did the thread and how to get it all to look good. It could all fit under the fender, look 100% stock and not take a chance of rubbing the paint.
Its a 50k car and to me, I would think I was taking the easy way out with no advantage other than the saved trip to FED-ex.
Its exactly why I did the thread and how to get it all to look good. It could all fit under the fender, look 100% stock and not take a chance of rubbing the paint.
Its a 50k car and to me, I would think I was taking the easy way out with no advantage other than the saved trip to FED-ex.
Once these tires are done I'll probably sell the wheels and move up to the 305/18" wheel combo. P.S. What 18" wheel Do those 305s fit on? Thanks
01-26-2008, 10:57 AM
#19
Melting Slicks
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Good write up. So it's apparent that those of us still too stubborn to switch to non-runflats are going to be severly limited by choices and traction. Yet another compromise that needs to be made. Has anyone heard anything about the new Michelin RFs supposedly coming out?
I hear you are all too familiar with this situation.....
THE REALITY
Fast cars have traction limited acceleration no matter how much power it has. It can be a track duty forced induction car that has entitrely too much power and on the street it will rarely find that line and more importantly, will be inconsistent in allowing the driver to acheive the best acceleration possible. All too often the 750rwhp FI car owner, on street tires, will say that the weather was cold or the tires werent their chosen drag radials all of course with the same end, a lesser powered car jumped out in front of them and they couldnt get traction. Its irrelevant that the lesser powered car had cold tires on cold asphalt too. It doesnt matter that the lesser powered car never sees a track and that the track of choice may not be the 1/4 mile kind. What happened is that the tire matched the application. There is a lvel where the tire choice of limitation will mandate a maximum power output from underhood but that is a wrestling match for the owner to search for himself.
Fast cars have traction limited acceleration no matter how much power it has. It can be a track duty forced induction car that has entitrely too much power and on the street it will rarely find that line and more importantly, will be inconsistent in allowing the driver to acheive the best acceleration possible. All too often the 750rwhp FI car owner, on street tires, will say that the weather was cold or the tires werent their chosen drag radials all of course with the same end, a lesser powered car jumped out in front of them and they couldnt get traction. Its irrelevant that the lesser powered car had cold tires on cold asphalt too. It doesnt matter that the lesser powered car never sees a track and that the track of choice may not be the 1/4 mile kind. What happened is that the tire matched the application. There is a lvel where the tire choice of limitation will mandate a maximum power output from underhood but that is a wrestling match for the owner to search for himself.
