rybern

I've ordered a Power Bond PB1117SS to replace my wobbly HB. I've researched about replacing the HB and am comfortable with doing the job myself considering the money I'll save in labor. Having said that, my local shop recently quoted me $1000 to do a cam swap (which includes pulling the HB). I'm now considering a cam swap and letting them change the HB while they are there(and save me the task). I'm considering a blower cam because I'm also considering an A&A Ti at some point in the future. I ordered a a PAS3400 earlier this week and intend to have it installed in 3-4 weeks when the converter comes in. Car is a 2011 GS with 14k miles.

Desires:
1. Not a DD but I want to keep it reliable, trouble free and easy to maintain.
2. I want to be able to hope in the car and drive it anywhere.
3. I'd prefer to not mess with heads
4. This car is a cruiser that might make it to the dragstrip once or twice a year. Although I do think it would be cool to have a 10 second car though.
5. Smooth driving, no shacking
6. Little to no gas mileage loss preferred

Cam considerations:
1. BTR LS3 Centri cam(227/244 618/604) 115+5 (seems to be popular)
2. Cam Motion LS3 Stage 3 (220/230 595/595) 117+4 (someone mentioned on CF)
3. 220/230 duration, ~.600” lift and ~115*LSA with ~+3* advance (CI GS mentioned on CF)

Reasons to cam now:
1. having the cam swap done at the same time as the PAS3400 will save me a tune.
2. doing a cam may save me from feeling the need for a blower
3. won't have to remove HB later if I do a cam later

I suppose calling BTR is a good idea but I thought I'd see what folks say on here about cam selection and also my logic on even doing a cam.

StayinStock

So I can offer your a little bit of insight here from my Cousin's 09 build. We did a 3400 stall in it with a TSP blower cam at the same time in preparation for a Centri (specifically their stage 3 blower cam: 231/239, .640"/.629", 115 LSA, 112 ICL). We had pretty good luck with that car and the drivability was great after we got it dialed in. I will say one of the issues we had though was overheating with the a/c on sitting still. Not sure why but when we would turn the a/c on in that car and it wasn't moving, temps would climb fast. Unfortunately we never got it figured out. Wasn't really a big deal, more of a nuisance. His car weighed 3170lbs (1lt base model) and managed to go 11.17@128 on a radial and e85. We we're pretty close to breaking into the 10s but just couldn't get the 60 down enough. (I'd like to tell you we put a centri on it and went 9s and it was all worth the fight but he sold it before we had the chance lol, best pass was a 10.90 on a 100 shot of nitrous). MPG's... around town forget about it, its gonna suck, highway will stay about the same but will fall off slightly.

I wouldn't be too concerned with reliability. For the most part a cammed LS3 is pretty reliable. That being said, I know you said you don't want to mess with the heads but if I can provide some personal insight, With that large of a Cam you should really look into doing a new lifter. Not sure what your mileage is but being that a blower cam is likely gonna be more on the radical end of the spectrum its good insurance. The last thing you want to do is be digging lifter roller bearings out of your oil pan a few months down the line. Its not fun... Just did it myself. Not saying necessarily do anything with the heads while their off but I would at least take them off to do a new set of lifters while your doing the cam.

I would def call and talk to BTR, they we're great with me on my last endeavor. Customer service is top notch and those guys know their stuff. Shipping was insanely fast too. I had all my parts within 2 day of placing the order.

old motorhead

If you want good drivability, choose a cam with 0 to negative overlap. Much positive overlap and you can get into crappy manners and fuel eco pretty quick. Cam it mild and let the blower make the power. Your #1 cam it bigger than I'd want to fool with. The other two are needlessly small.

If you want a cam that will make decent power n/a and also be fine with a blower, look for low to mid 220's on the intake with mid 230's on the exhaust. 115 or 116 lsa. .610 intake lift and .590 exhaust would be easy on the valvetrain, especially with Cam Motion lobes. A 222/236 116+3 would come in at -3* of overlap. Choppy idle, no lope, no shake, great manners, and decent fuel eco. The cam in my last blown Vette had a -3* overlap. It drove great.

With your converter choice and mild boost, I don't see why it wouldn't be 10 sec capable. I ran 10's with a Maggie blown LS3 making 640 rwhp. Cam was a 219/231 115lsa. About 8.5psi of boost. The Vette was capable of faster times, but the driver (me) didn't want to spit parts at the drag strip. 1.88 short time was the best it ever did.....but I didn't break anything and always had a great time.

Another option is to get Pat G's take on things. I'd do that before buying a "shelf" cam. Any retailer you call is going to suggest a cam they have in stock. May or may not fit what you're trying to do. Pat can dial it in just like you want it.

rybern

I greatly appreciate the input guys. Car is a two owner 14k mile car and was bone stock until I installed a Vararam.

A cam has never been a serious consideration until I realized I can basically have my HB replaced for free(and I don't have to mess with DYI) if I pay someone to do the cam swap($1000 + parts). It's all how I look at it and justify it, LOL. I'd consider it myself but getting it to tuner is a problem and it would be nice just to pay someone and be done.

old moterhead seems to have described what I'm looking for. How do I reach out to Pat G?

BadAV

Just a suggestion while they are in there, since you are considering a supercharger. Have them pin the balancer at install. It will likely save some grief later.

old motorhead

PAT G CUSTOM CAMS QUESTIONNAIRE (patgtuning.com)

rybern

Question for you guys. How much more work is the cam swap considering that I'm comfy with doing the HB swap? I've never done a cam swap but have an interest in doing the work myself. I'm a machinist and understand tolerances. Heck, I've even swapped a motor on a 1986 Chevy S-10 under a shade tree with a come-a-long back in my mid 20's.

I'm definitely pinning the HB.

Thank you.

HOXXOH

Just personal opinion here, but it looks like you're headed down that rabbit hole that leads to violating your number one desire. You can maintain reasonably good reliability with a converter and blower, but as soon as you go internal on the engine, all bets are off. As far as saving money by letting someone else do your balancer during a cam swap, the false economy trade off is that your valve train will need changes and regular maintenance.

Twice a year to the track will be more fun, when you don't worry about killing the engine.

Spend your money on headers to go along with the blower. More air in has to get out too.

BTW, you don't need a cam to go 10's, since a blower/converter combo can get you there with proper tuning.

da6speed

Go with BTR Centri cam or the Jam Cam. Either work very well with the blower and both are proven. I've seen both drive fine even with a stock converter.

Don't get hung-up on so much overlap hurts drive ability - that might be the case with a huge NA cam with tons of overlap, but both of these have less than 10 degrees I believe. Driveability is ALL in the tune!

jamieo

If you are comfortable doing the balancer then the cam swap will be a piece of cake!I would recommend doing the BTR trunnion upgrade or the CHE kit while you are at it.Cheap insurance and not much more work or expense.I would do alot of research and call several vendors like BTR to assure your expectations are met and you don't regret it later down the road.Brian knows what will work and how everything will turn out.great guys that won't steer you wrong just to sell parts.I am surethere are alot of others out there as well so you have plenty of options!

farmington

FYI there have been people on here who have gone into the 10’s with a factory cam and no power adder. Hoxxoh

Omega Doom

the BTR 3 centri cam is a good solid choice as is the Cam Motion centri line up but ultimately a custom cam is best just dont be afraid to go mild

rybern

Excellent point you have. Part of the desire for the cam is that it(along with the converter) may satisfy me enough to prevent me from feeling like I need to SC to get more power. I'd only be interested in a mild cam that would work well with a centri. I was under the impression that mild cams are very well regarded and trouble free. It could be that the BTR cam I mentioned is more of a mid size cam. I haven't studied cams much at all and feel pretty ignorant on the subject.... although I do understand what a cam does.
Maybe I need to do the converter first and see how that transforms the car. Then I feel out the cam vs SC while I'm enjoying the converter and hope my HB hangs on. I just hate to do the HB and then decide to do a cam shortly after.

As far as headers go, I have an interest in headers but have read quite a few stories about heat issues.... even worse with a SC(although seems to be more of an issue with a roots).

I appreciate your input.

That's good to hear. I have no problem pulling the valve covers and rockers to replace the trunions if I do a cam swap. Thanks for the suggestions Jamie.

That's true and quite amazing, but certainly doesn't seem to be the norm. Of course the fact that I have a GS is a little more taxing on the ability to do so.

I really appreciate everyone's input on this. There have been some really great points brought up.

rybern

I will definitely go mild if I do it.

Dano523

Increase the rocker ration to increase the valve lift, not the amount of lifter lift with the cam, since the weak part of the system if the valve trays to keep the lifter from rotation and taking out the rollers and cam lob surfaces.

As for valve lift increase, this decrease the lift of the valve springs, so if .600 or greater, will be into the head replacing the valve springs every 30K, before they snap and take out a motor when the valve drops.

Truth is, instead of playing cam game to add a few HP's at most (say 100hp, and street drive-ability gone to hell from the surging off idle in stop and go traffic), go Super charger to increase the power on the stock motor over 700hp safely/ stop and go traffic civil drive-able instead.

rybern

I appreciate the response. My whole thing with cam swap was really driven by having most of the work done while doing the HB. I don't want a cam that will affect reliability in any way but if I could swap to a cam that might prevent me from feeling the need to SC, then it would be a win. I've ordered a PAS3400 but getting cold feet about it due to wheel/tire option.

Omega Doom

lol i know the feeling but you should do the Yank along with the ECS or A&A kit that car would be dependable and deadly if you must do a cam go custom but you have to decide honestly which way your going to go and STAY lol

rybern

Good point. I'm feeling a little uncertain about he Yank due to wheel and tire options.

asd_srt

One question, if you're going to do a blower what are your power goals? I skimmed over the post but didn't read every comment. A stock cam with a blower can easily make 800whp. If you want something mild in the 500-600 range I wouldn't even cam it. Also if you want to do a blower I don't see you getting a cam and being satisfied, even the mildest blower on a stock cam is going to easily make more power than a cammed setup but the blower will still drive completely stock.

I have both a big cam big converter NA car and a stock cam stock converter blower car. So I can definitely speak from experience on how they both drive and act. You'd never know the blower car has anything done to it until it goes WOT.

The NA car has had 4 cams and 5 converters now so I've had everything from a cam/converter combo from completely mild a little faster than stock to a 9-second NA car.

rybern

Thanks for your input. That's a lot of converter swapping, LOL. Which blower do you have on your stock converter car? Why have you kept the stock converter(understandable if it's a PD)?

I don't really have any dead set power goals. I'm not 100% certain that I'll do a centri blower. There's really two things that motivate me to do a cam. 1. It seems that most of the work is done while I'm doing the HB. 2. My hopes is that the PAS3400 combined with a mild cam would satisfy me enough to not do the blower. Based on what I've read, I have no interest of having more than 600whp. 500-600 seems to be the sweet spot where most folks say they should have stopped.

Cam and headers should get me around 450whp and would cost ~$2200(ceramic TPS headers installed by me, ~$600 for cam kit) + tune. Would remove about 25 lbs off front of car
A&A with a 3.8 pully should get me 550whp and would cost ~$6200 (installed by me) + tune. Would add about 80 lbs to front of car. I do have some concerns with heat if I do headers/cam and then do the blower.

In the end, I'm wanting a very dependable street car that will rarely see the dragstrip (I did purchase a Dragy to document my progress though)

I intend to do the PAS3400 by itself and resolve traction issues first. Then I'll see what's next. I do like discussing this stuff so I welcome the input.