riggs 74

Looking to install the best Cam to get full potential out of the 243 heads.
I hope to port and polish the heads but nut sure if that will get done or not.
I will run a stall if necessary and I am going to run larger injectors. this will all
be re tuned after all the work is completed.

Thanks for any and all advice given.

Riggs

timd38

Sound like you have a busy winter planned!

You live across the state from TrickFlow, they have a kit that you can pickup from Jegs in Columbus that includes heads, cams, etc all in one kit.

riggs 74

I Thought about the Trick flow set up but I think I could achieve the same or better results with
A good cam and a port polish to the 243 castings, for a lot less money.

I have seen many cam combinations here on the forum but haven't seen anyone talk about them
matching a cam to the heads for maximum flow results. I am looking for the biggest street cam
that would bring me the best results with the 243 castings, ported and or not ported, in an LS2 Engine.

Does anyone have any info to share?


Riggs.

Joe_G

The 243 heads even ported aren't going to compare to Trickflows. They will be 30-50 rwhp and 20-40 lb ft short. I know, I've got stock heads and I've been watching Trick Flows pull 500 rwhp and 440 rwtq all day long on many builds.

PM Spinmonster or search for his threads. He's done a lot of work on cams and shares his information as he's just an enthusiast like you. Charlie from RPM also turns out some killer builds on this board as does LG in Texas. They are vendors and well respected on this board.

I have a LG G5x3, but it's an older design, all that was available when I put in my cam. It was designed for the LS1 with stock heads or AFR's I've been told.

musicman2

This needs explanation ??!!----difference between trick flow & CNC'd 243's--how far apart are they in actual RWHP ?? Anybody got the actual --proven-- facts ?? THANKS !!!

Joe_G

Contact or search threads from dsp300c he's tried many sets. And also check with Isaiah48 he has ported 243's. Compare their two dyno sheets and track times.

SpinMonster

I dont know what proof you seek. I can direct you to the 1/4 mile list to see what cars have what performance then go into the owner's profile to see what combo they have. This list therefore shows what cars have the highest average HP by looking at their trap speeds. We have seen these threads and are sharing what we have seen. No one is selling you anything so their info is unbiased and they are just sharing what they have seen.

I have seen so many threads on head cam results and the only time I've seen a tuner thread that got anywhere near 500rwhp with 243 castings wanted 2500 plus your cores for the port job. Since trick flows are 2400 and you can sell your stock heads it puts you in the running. A set of AFR 230 V2s did 504rwhp and they are 2400 and make more TQ. The cam used was a 231/231 (LSL lobes) on a 114+2.

No ported 243 head at 1500 will get you much over 470rwhp and even that will be with a huge cam that most wouldnt want to live with.

A Trick Flow 225 with a mid 230's cam has the H/C 1/4 mile record in an LS2 and it isnt a crazy overlap cam. Personally, I think the AFR 230 V2 is the best available and will get you 520+rwhp with a big cam.

Why 243 heads wont measure up: The most power has always been made by the head that has the highest flow numbers while having the smallest intake runner volume. Anyone can hog out a runner to get huge flow numbers but it will have low velocity. An LS3 head has 332cfm flow and the AFR 205 has 300cfm flow at the same lift yet the AFR 205 will make more power cam for cam and will make more power on an LS2 in absolute terms. The LS3 heads are 260cc runners and the AFR is a 205cc runner. Flow means little in comparison to velocity of air. Porting the 260cc runner on an LS3 head gets you 355+cfm and I have never seen one beat the Trick flow 225 for peak power let alone low end TQ. The 243 is a 210cc runner and once ported they get near 305cfm but then have much bigger runners. The only track cars that see good results keep the 243 head at 220-230 cccs and they always have less low end TQ. They flow much worse at lower lifts compared to a AFR 205 which matches their peak TQ with 10% less runner volume.

Regardless of which head you go with a FAST intake manifold ported will get you more than ported 243 heads will. Id start there and add the best head you can get after it. If you want 470rwhp as a max, get LS3 heads and a 230/234 cam on a 114+2 LSA. If you want more, you need a good aftermarket cathedral head.

My 2 cents based on quite a few installs to say the least.

SpinMonster

and for those that dont know, trap speed is an indication of power made with little driver skill affecting it unlike ETs which has a good indication of driver skill. Both good and bad drivers will have nearly identicle trap speeds so its a good indicator of average power being made. (The only variable being DA)

musicman2

THANKS !!! for your detailed report !! I just sent you a P.M.

mittens

I sure love my VRX5 cam. with stock heads.

236/238 .601/.605 @ 113. drivea awesome and pulls hard

scv8

Great post and info

LSCHLEM

riggs 74

Guys, thank you for your guidance, keep it coming.

First let me give you some back round on the build. I am swapping in a 2008 LS2 with a
4L70E trans into a 74 vette. This destination of this build is to create a street/ track car
that has classic style and modern performance. It is going to be a strong running
street car that will see its fair share of road race and auto cross tracks, and maybe
a few 1/4 mile events.



My wants for this build is what ever it takes to be at the 450 to 500rwhp. I was considering
to port and polish the 243 castings, install best recommended cam, 46lb to 50lb injectors in the
stock but ported intake, long tub headers, and re tune the computer, the trans will receive a
stall thats appropriate for the cam.

I am more concern about the way that the car performs rather than the dyno numbers.

The Trick flow kit does look to be the way to go for out of the box all out performance and
does fit the bill for the numbers that I am looking for, but the price seems to be a little
steep although I do see the benefits of this complete kit.

I want to avoid buying parts at this time that I will not be happy with and only find myself tearing
back into this motor and wasting the money on the parts that I am not happy with. Build it once and
enjoy the results is the direction that I would like to be guided in.

The infomation that has been given to me has been great and would like to keep the comments and
knowledge coming.


Riggs.

Guru_4_hire

The thing about heads is that there is a cross sectional area that correspondes to an RPM range. If the head is too small the heads will sonic choke and you will lose power, if the heads are too big the velocity will be too low, fuel will fall out of suspension and not mix properly in the cylinder blah blah blah many bad joojoos.

So if you are going to be sticking with your stock heads get a cam for the stock RPM range. Something like the lingenfelter GT11 cam. You can give them a mild port and polish and you should still be good.

If your requirement is too keep the stock heads, get a cam that maintains the stock RPM range. Cross sectional area of the heads dictates an RPM range based upon the displacement. Your cam should match that.

ninjavette

I made 485/430 rwhp/tq with a small cam, I'd have to search for the specs as I don't recall off hand (228/228?), ported FAST 90, and ported 243 heads. (+ headers/UD) I haven't done the research on the final price comparison between all the choices after all is said and done, you'll have to price things out and see. But your power goals are definitely attainable with the stock heads.

I should add that mine is a 6 speed though so your auto should see slightly lower numbers.

Nightstalker Medic

I've made 453RWHP on stock 243 castings w/ a Englandgreen Whiplash Cam. See sig for mods.

your goal of 450-500 should be easly made.

timd38

I am confused about the consistent talk about the price of the TrickFlow kit. I thought it was deal, since it includes everything you need and someone spent their time and money to make sure it works.

Personally, I plan to go with an LS3 top this winter because really good LS2 heads are not as good as LS3 heads......

Joe_G

Here is some interesting reading on the AFR 230 V2 vs LS3 setup. Patrick G is well respected in the LSx world.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/dynamo...k-results.html

Spin, do the AFR's need new rockers like Trickflow's do? Do the AFR's have stock valve angles, or are they 11 degree allowing more piston to valve clearance for big cams like Trickflow's do?

ninjavette

When people talk about how good the TFs are out of the box, are they taking into account that new rockers are needed? I used to hear everyone recommend TFs, TFs, TFs. I asked a tuner about them and they told me about the rockers and possibly better springs(?) being needed. This certainly adds to the cost and work for the supposedly best out of the box heads. I never did a break down of all the heads available and their average price and power results.

Joe_G

The Harland Sharp or Yella Terras rockers are about $400 to $550 and aren't a bad upgrade at all - the stock rockers have been known to dump their needle bearings from time to time. Plus the aftermarkets are better than the stock from a wear perspective, some reports have been made of wearing the valve guides with high lift cams and stock rockers on stock heads (though I've not had any trouble in 30,000 miles with a G5x3 and stock rockers and stock heads).

You need springs to match the cam you choose. Stock springs won't handle any cam so you are replacing springs anytime you put in a cam.

I run Patriot Extreme Gold's and they've been great for 420 drag strip runs and 30,000 miles so far. I zing them up to 6800 rpm all the time including for extended periods of time when I did the top speed runs. I did replace them at 22,000 miles and one of the keepers was broken (but still holding) - so you need to plan to replace springs at 20,000 miles or less with every cam. It's a necessary wear item when you go for the cam. I ran the Patriot Golds on my LS1 build too with no problems. They are the cheapest setup at $250 or so with titanium retainers.