Dyno #'s for LS3 with headers then Z06 exhaust
03-20-2011, 06:10 PM
#41
Intermediate
Some info on the upcoming Smog law that will go into effect in 2013...Doesn't look good for us in Cali...
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122635
I am also planning on doing the Z06 Manifolds due to the emissions here...Does anyone know if JBA makes High Flow Cats (200 cell) for the C6 Vettes? I have a set of their High Flow Cats on my 2010 Camaro 2SS (LS3) and gave a nice jump in power for under $400 (no Tune req'd).
*My first post on these forums
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122635
I am also planning on doing the Z06 Manifolds due to the emissions here...Does anyone know if JBA makes High Flow Cats (200 cell) for the C6 Vettes? I have a set of their High Flow Cats on my 2010 Camaro 2SS (LS3) and gave a nice jump in power for under $400 (no Tune req'd).
*My first post on these forums
Last edited by cplabaunza; 03-20-2011 at 06:15 PM.
03-20-2011, 06:36 PM
#42
Race Director
Member Since: Sep 2007
Location: Peoria/Phoenix AZ
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C6 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
Some info on the upcoming Smog law that will go into effect in 2013...Doesn't look good for us in Cali...
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122635
I am also planning on doing the Z06 Manifolds due to the emissions here...Does anyone know if JBA makes High Flow Cats (200 cell) for the C6 Vettes? I have a set of their High Flow Cats on my 2010 Camaro 2SS (LS3) and gave a nice jump in power for under $400 (no Tune req'd).
*My first post on these forums
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122635
I am also planning on doing the Z06 Manifolds due to the emissions here...Does anyone know if JBA makes High Flow Cats (200 cell) for the C6 Vettes? I have a set of their High Flow Cats on my 2010 Camaro 2SS (LS3) and gave a nice jump in power for under $400 (no Tune req'd).
*My first post on these forums
Lots of good info and friendships here. Search is your friend too.
Enjoy.
03-21-2011, 12:03 AM
#43
Melting Slicks
Some info on the upcoming Smog law that will go into effect in 2013...Doesn't look good for us in Cali...
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122635
I am also planning on doing the Z06 Manifolds due to the emissions here...Does anyone know if JBA makes High Flow Cats (200 cell) for the C6 Vettes? I have a set of their High Flow Cats on my 2010 Camaro 2SS (LS3) and gave a nice jump in power for under $400 (no Tune req'd).
*My first post on these forums
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122635
I am also planning on doing the Z06 Manifolds due to the emissions here...Does anyone know if JBA makes High Flow Cats (200 cell) for the C6 Vettes? I have a set of their High Flow Cats on my 2010 Camaro 2SS (LS3) and gave a nice jump in power for under $400 (no Tune req'd).
*My first post on these forums
DJ
03-21-2011, 12:29 AM
#44
Racer
Member Since: Feb 2008
Location: Vancouver Washington
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I'll give the run down concerning the exhaust mods done.
First off the car dynoed 375 rwhp/381tq. on a Dynopack (wheels off type.).
With tune only 400 both rwhp and TQ. Gain 25 hp and 19 tq.
Next step was at another shop using a Dynojet.
got the same #'s 400 for both hp/tq. with the existing tune.
Added vararam and no change in #'s, with re tune.
Added ARH 1 3/4 catted headers with X pipe and new tuned got 422 for both HP and Tq. Gain of 22 both hp/tq.
Added 4:10s differential. ( This is reported to lower the readings due to the programing of the Dyno diagnostics.)
How much? Lets see.
Third shop with Dynojet again.
Checked #'s on Dynojet and got 407 rwhp and 403 Tq.( this was first run with the added gears. Wanted base line.
So I lost 15 rwhp and 19 Tq. due to gears.
Removed Vararam and replaced with stock intake, also removed Headers and X pipe. Installed Z06 manifold and H pipe. Retuned and got 400 rwhp and 392 TQ.
I figure adding back the lose of power from gear change and for comparison sake I am looking at 415 rwhp and 411 Tq.
These numbers would represent what I might see with the stock gears.
So I picked up 22 hp and Tq by adding headers, above the original tune numbers of 400.
I lost 7hp and 11Tq. by changing to Z06 set up.
Or I gained 15 hp and 11 Tq. by adding Z06 set up with tune.
Tried to give all information hope it is not to confusing.
Agreed not same dyno all the time actually two different type but runs were done on both to check prior to mods.
Now I am happy to say that I can not worry about the upcoming Emissions testing ( still a couple of years away)
Like to thank Mike at TPS for helping me with this project.
I think for us California guys the Z06 system makes some sense if one does not want to get into emissions problems. Ya I know that technically this is not the OEM set up for the LS3 but who will really know. Ya the manifolds look different but they are not headers so I am not worried. Now all Emissions data on the car is legal too. No thrown/turned off sensors.
All the dyno runs above had the Corsa Sports installed. Except for the initial stock run.
And no I can not tell any difference in performance by Butt Dyno.
Car has never been tracked so no numbers available.
Hope this can help some others.
Z06 manifolds can be picked up at fraction of headers.($350 vs $1800) Probably with install and tune the cost would better than half the cost. DIY guys could save more. You get more than half the power with no worries.
This probably would be of interest in States that Headers are a no no.
First off the car dynoed 375 rwhp/381tq. on a Dynopack (wheels off type.).
With tune only 400 both rwhp and TQ. Gain 25 hp and 19 tq.
Next step was at another shop using a Dynojet.
got the same #'s 400 for both hp/tq. with the existing tune.
Added vararam and no change in #'s, with re tune.
Added ARH 1 3/4 catted headers with X pipe and new tuned got 422 for both HP and Tq. Gain of 22 both hp/tq.
Added 4:10s differential. ( This is reported to lower the readings due to the programing of the Dyno diagnostics.)
How much? Lets see.
Third shop with Dynojet again.
Checked #'s on Dynojet and got 407 rwhp and 403 Tq.( this was first run with the added gears. Wanted base line.
So I lost 15 rwhp and 19 Tq. due to gears.
Removed Vararam and replaced with stock intake, also removed Headers and X pipe. Installed Z06 manifold and H pipe. Retuned and got 400 rwhp and 392 TQ.
I figure adding back the lose of power from gear change and for comparison sake I am looking at 415 rwhp and 411 Tq.
These numbers would represent what I might see with the stock gears.
So I picked up 22 hp and Tq by adding headers, above the original tune numbers of 400.
I lost 7hp and 11Tq. by changing to Z06 set up.
Or I gained 15 hp and 11 Tq. by adding Z06 set up with tune.
Tried to give all information hope it is not to confusing.
Agreed not same dyno all the time actually two different type but runs were done on both to check prior to mods.
Now I am happy to say that I can not worry about the upcoming Emissions testing ( still a couple of years away)
Like to thank Mike at TPS for helping me with this project.
I think for us California guys the Z06 system makes some sense if one does not want to get into emissions problems. Ya I know that technically this is not the OEM set up for the LS3 but who will really know. Ya the manifolds look different but they are not headers so I am not worried. Now all Emissions data on the car is legal too. No thrown/turned off sensors.
All the dyno runs above had the Corsa Sports installed. Except for the initial stock run.
And no I can not tell any difference in performance by Butt Dyno.
Car has never been tracked so no numbers available.
Hope this can help some others.
Z06 manifolds can be picked up at fraction of headers.($350 vs $1800) Probably with install and tune the cost would better than half the cost. DIY guys could save more. You get more than half the power with no worries.
This probably would be of interest in States that Headers are a no no.
Let me know! :-)
03-21-2011, 07:28 AM
#45
Intermediate
03-22-2011, 09:28 PM
#46
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Member Since: Jun 2008
Location: San Diego CA
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CA 2014 Emissions Changes?
Boomer, what more can you tell us about the changes that will be taking place in CA in 2014 with regards to emissions testing?
If I put on catted headers (with relocated O2 sensors), won't they read the same as the stock manifolds (at least after warming up)?
It not, why not?
Also, if I get a tune to go with the headers, do tuners alter anything in the computer that affects emissions?
Is it possible that the computer expects the O2 sensors to get warmed up (from a cold start) within X-seconds and that doesn't happen with headers, so the tuners block any code that might get thrown as a result?
Further, my thinking is that tuners will usually lean the engine out, which will probably make it emit LESS. Am I mistaken here?
If I put on catted headers (with relocated O2 sensors), won't they read the same as the stock manifolds (at least after warming up)?
It not, why not?
Also, if I get a tune to go with the headers, do tuners alter anything in the computer that affects emissions?
Is it possible that the computer expects the O2 sensors to get warmed up (from a cold start) within X-seconds and that doesn't happen with headers, so the tuners block any code that might get thrown as a result?
Further, my thinking is that tuners will usually lean the engine out, which will probably make it emit LESS. Am I mistaken here?
03-22-2011, 11:27 PM
#47
Race Director
Thread Starter
First off the law reads that it is unlawful to change any part of the emissions system unless the part fails. The it must be replaced with a CARB approved part.
The cats are located further down the pipe with the long tubes so they do not get hot enough to work as designed. The Tuner must turn off the rear sensor otherwise you will have a cell light come on in the dash.
The Tuner can affect emission with a poor tune qualities/perimeters.
The LS3 makes its best power running a bit rich. Lean condition is a NO NO.
Did you receive any of my Email replays? I used the Iphone and sometimes my fingers are not coordinated and stuff gets lost.
The new law is going to discontinue the sniff/tail pipe test and rely on the OBD system to check if all the sensors are working properly with no thrown codes. With the long tubes your rear sensor will have to be turned off, so you fail. Even if you go into open loop the OBD will confirm this situation and cause a the car to fail, again due to the fact that the rear sensor is off.
High flow cats, which are used with header system are not very good and will not last long providing clean emission anyway, so even with out the new law eventually the high flow unit will fail. There are no CARB approved high flow cats for the State of California.
Hope I answered your query's if not maybe some one else will chime in with better knowledge.
I am not in this field just wanting to not have any worries.
Check post 41 in this thread...top of this page. Click on provided link.
Thanks to cplabaunza for posting.
The cats are located further down the pipe with the long tubes so they do not get hot enough to work as designed. The Tuner must turn off the rear sensor otherwise you will have a cell light come on in the dash.
The Tuner can affect emission with a poor tune qualities/perimeters.
The LS3 makes its best power running a bit rich. Lean condition is a NO NO.
Did you receive any of my Email replays? I used the Iphone and sometimes my fingers are not coordinated and stuff gets lost.
The new law is going to discontinue the sniff/tail pipe test and rely on the OBD system to check if all the sensors are working properly with no thrown codes. With the long tubes your rear sensor will have to be turned off, so you fail. Even if you go into open loop the OBD will confirm this situation and cause a the car to fail, again due to the fact that the rear sensor is off.
High flow cats, which are used with header system are not very good and will not last long providing clean emission anyway, so even with out the new law eventually the high flow unit will fail. There are no CARB approved high flow cats for the State of California.
Hope I answered your query's if not maybe some one else will chime in with better knowledge.
I am not in this field just wanting to not have any worries.
Check post 41 in this thread...top of this page. Click on provided link.
Thanks to cplabaunza for posting.
Last edited by Boomer111; 03-22-2011 at 11:30 PM.
03-23-2011, 12:09 PM
#49
Tech Contributor
First off the law reads that it is unlawful to change any part of the emissions system unless the part fails. The it must be replaced with a CARB approved part.
The cats are located further down the pipe with the long tubes so they do not get hot enough to work as designed. The Tuner must turn off the rear sensor otherwise you will have a cell light come on in the dash.
The Tuner can affect emission with a poor tune qualities/perimeters.
The LS3 makes its best power running a bit rich. Lean condition is a NO NO.
Did you receive any of my Email replays? I used the Iphone and sometimes my fingers are not coordinated and stuff gets lost.
The new law is going to discontinue the sniff/tail pipe test and rely on the OBD system to check if all the sensors are working properly with no thrown codes. With the long tubes your rear sensor will have to be turned off, so you fail. Even if you go into open loop the OBD will confirm this situation and cause a the car to fail, again due to the fact that the rear sensor is off.
High flow cats, which are used with header system are not very good and will not last long providing clean emission anyway, so even with out the new law eventually the high flow unit will fail. There are no CARB approved high flow cats for the State of California.
Hope I answered your query's if not maybe some one else will chime in with better knowledge.
I am not in this field just wanting to not have any worries.
Check post 41 in this thread...top of this page. Click on provided link.
Thanks to cplabaunza for posting.
The cats are located further down the pipe with the long tubes so they do not get hot enough to work as designed. The Tuner must turn off the rear sensor otherwise you will have a cell light come on in the dash.
The Tuner can affect emission with a poor tune qualities/perimeters.
The LS3 makes its best power running a bit rich. Lean condition is a NO NO.
Did you receive any of my Email replays? I used the Iphone and sometimes my fingers are not coordinated and stuff gets lost.
The new law is going to discontinue the sniff/tail pipe test and rely on the OBD system to check if all the sensors are working properly with no thrown codes. With the long tubes your rear sensor will have to be turned off, so you fail. Even if you go into open loop the OBD will confirm this situation and cause a the car to fail, again due to the fact that the rear sensor is off.
High flow cats, which are used with header system are not very good and will not last long providing clean emission anyway, so even with out the new law eventually the high flow unit will fail. There are no CARB approved high flow cats for the State of California.
Hope I answered your query's if not maybe some one else will chime in with better knowledge.
I am not in this field just wanting to not have any worries.
Check post 41 in this thread...top of this page. Click on provided link.
Thanks to cplabaunza for posting.
That said, I don't think the information above is accurate about reporting when tests are shut off. Readers who are concerned should inquire, via PM, to expert tuners on this board.
Please don't PM me as I'm not an expert tuner in this matter (or any matter
).
03-23-2011, 12:59 PM
#50
Race Director
Thread Starter
We don't have emissions in FL...one nice thing about living here. Along with no property tax, income tax, and we just mail in $64 for our stickers each year and they come in the mail.
That said, I don't think the information above is accurate about reporting when tests are shut off. Readers who are concerned should inquire, via PM, to expert tuners on this board.
Please don't PM me as I'm not an expert tuner in this matter (or any matter).
That said, I don't think the information above is accurate about reporting when tests are shut off. Readers who are concerned should inquire, via PM, to expert tuners on this board.
Please don't PM me as I'm not an expert tuner in this matter (or any matter
).
04-02-2011, 10:42 AM
#52
Race Director
Thread Starter
Something to add....
My dyno numbers after adding the 4:10 rear end also had a rear wheel change.
I went with 19x11 with 305 width. Up from 19x10 and 285 width.
So just another factor to have to fudge on in comparing numbers.
So to recap the 422 rwhp number ORIGINALLY did not include the gears or larger rear tires.
The later tested numbers with the gear swap did include the larger tires. So the 15 hp lose and 20 torque lose from the gear swap might be high due to the larger rear wheel combo.
Some thought this lose to be high, just though of this while reading another thread.
The wheel change may have contributed more to the gear change numbers. Also would mean that the ZO6 exhaust number would be closer to the initial 422 AR Header numbers.
Not sure just saying.
My dyno numbers after adding the 4:10 rear end also had a rear wheel change.
I went with 19x11 with 305 width. Up from 19x10 and 285 width.
So just another factor to have to fudge on in comparing numbers.
So to recap the 422 rwhp number ORIGINALLY did not include the gears or larger rear tires.
The later tested numbers with the gear swap did include the larger tires. So the 15 hp lose and 20 torque lose from the gear swap might be high due to the larger rear wheel combo.
Some thought this lose to be high, just though of this while reading another thread.
The wheel change may have contributed more to the gear change numbers. Also would mean that the ZO6 exhaust number would be closer to the initial 422 AR Header numbers.
Not sure just saying.
Last edited by Boomer111; 04-02-2011 at 10:46 AM.
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