JCtx

Hey gang, I always disable that stupid switch on my manual cars, since it's absolutely useless. If you're going to have the tranny in gear, it's more dangerous to release the clutch with engine at high idle than just cranking the starter, but some insist it's a 'safety feature' . Anyway, don't want to debate that issue, since you have to know what the hell you're doing to drive a manual IMO; there's no safety feature from preventing you to start car in 1st gear, and dump clutch thinking car is in neutral and it's in 1st gear, giving you the surprise of your life. And hopefully no kids/wall/etc in front of the car .

I couldn't disable it on my M3 because it only had a one-way (like most cars) push-button ignition switch, and bypassing the clutch switch would start the car every time the button is pressed, not being able to turn 'acc' on if needed. Plus that car had 'hill assist', which applied the brakes on an incline until clutch was released (a nifty feature, especially for beginners). So had no choice but to leave it alone on that car.

Oh, before I continue, the clutch has TWO switches folks. The one at the top of the pedal travel is to deactivate cruise control. The one I'm talking about, which enables the starter, is at the end of the pedal travel (fully depressed). My question is if that switch has any other function on the Vette other than allowing to start the car. The good news is the Vette has a 2-way push-button switch, so the top part is ONLY to start the car, right folks? Here's where I need assurance.
My service manual is still 3 months away from being released, so hopefully somebody can look the electrical schematics up for me and confirm. And yes, I always warm up my engine a little, so have to climb into and out of the car TWICE every time I start it up, wearing the seat and myself twice as fast . Plus the door only having 2 detents, I have to squeeze in and out with the door on the first one. One nice side effect is engine will always crank after hitting the button. Sometimes I release the clutch pedal a little too early and the stupid started stops. I thought once engaged, it kept going, but that's not the case with the clutch switch. It is with the button tough. And no, unless you're well below freezing, you don't notice any lower cranking speed with the clutch in or out; extra tranny drag is minimal.

Finally, for those wondering, I always use a paper clip cut and bent into the exact 'U' shape to bridge the 2 connectors, put electrical tape to cover the connector, then push it into the clutch switch until the tape touches. Due to the electrical tape, fit is tight, so connector doesn't go anywhere. It's impossible to know it's not all the way in unless you're looking for that. And it can be reversed in less than a minute, leaving absolutely no trace of the 'mod'. And yes, I always put it back to stock when sold . Thanks in advance for your feedback.

REVAK

Don't know about Texas, but in Penna. , bypassing, or a malfunctioning neutral safety switch won't pass inspection. Just FYI.

JoesC5

A short story. In 2005, I was at my local dealer getting my C5 worked on. A guy pulls in the service bay with a new C6, puts the transmission in reverse and kills the engine and gets out of his car. The service writer opens the door, and reaches around the steering wheel and presses the start button to get the mileage, the car starts and proceeds to exit the building in reverse, after knocking the service writer down, damaging the drivers door on the buildings door jam, and comes to a stop against another car, outside of the building.

Turns out the clutch safety switch was defective,

Of course, the service writer knew, without thinking, that the car would not start with him pressing on the accessory button and accidentally hitting the top part of the button, resulting in the car starting. Of course, having the car's computer keeping the starter engaged until the engine was running, even though the service writer was not maintaining contact with the start switch, compounded the problem.

My point.....you over ride the built in safety switch and someone else gets hurt. You are responsible.

narfdanarf

I always bypass the clutch safety switch when I put in a heavy duty clutch to decrease unneccesary wear on the thrust bearing. You can always relocate the switch to ensure the ebrake is engaged or put in a micro switch on the shifter to verify neutral.

JCtx

Point taken, but as I said before, you'll NEVER be able to keep stupid people safe man. If that dude had the parking brake engaged (like you should ALWAYS do), nothing would have happened . Plus I'd have left car in neutral too. And finally, if my car was going to a dealer (hope that never happens ), I'd have put the clutch switch back to stock (takes less than a minute, and no tools needed) . A stupid switch won't make you safe; only YOU can do that . But I know many think it does; that's why I said no need to debate the issue .

Have you done it on a C6? So no other function for that switch, correct? And no need for any switches or lights for me; I always check car is in neutral, clutch switch bypassed or not. Thanks man.

JCtx

Well, looks like switch will stay the same, just like with the M3. Turns out there's just ONE dual-stage switch, with just ONE connector. And only THREE wires. I'm sure I can bypass it, but it wouldn't be the easy mod I wanted, so not interested in messing with it. And even less splicing anything. Will ask a friend with the service manual to look into the schematics just for the heck of it, but doubt I'll hear what I want . Will keep you posted if I find an easy solution.

calemasters

The same thing happen at Cormier Chevrolet in Long Beach in 2005. I test mine from time to time. I suppose this kind of thing would occur more frequently if cars had no clutch position safety switch. I think that these days, people assume the engine will not crank unless the clutch is released, so bypassing the switch may cause an incident.

ashanson

So if it's a three wire switch with one for reference and the two others for top and bottom, why don't you want to mess with it? I had an analog rod switch in the CTS-V (I imagine this is similar) and I just shorted the two for the bottom position. If you take the sensor out it's pretty easy to determine which two wires are for the bottom switch since it's just resistance, and you don't have to modify any of the wiring on the car, just the clutch position sensor.

helga203

I did this over 5 yrs ago. Best little mod i ever did.

JCtx

Could you please elaborate how you did that? The reason I don't want to mess with it is because I doubt it can be done without splicing wires (easily done that way), or without making it reversible without a trace. But if it can be done without splicing anything, and the switch is cheap enough (looks cheap as hell, so it should be ) to replace if not being able to reverse the mod easily, I'd think about it. I want it easily reversed in case car had to be flat-bedded to a dealership for whatever reason (knock on wood ), I could easily undo it on the road. I trust myself, but that story posted is entirely possible with clowns driving the car.

Would you mind sharing the details? Thanks man.

ashanson

I just used a little piece of wire to connect the two appropriate prongs on the sensor, and then plugged the connector on top of it which kept it secure. A little ghetto but worked fine. Don't have to modify anything, just take the piece of wire out when you want to reverse it. Same as the paperclip mod you mentioned, just have to figure out which two of the three to short.

Or, if you don't care about cruise disabling when you press in the clutch (don't think I have used this feature once), short them all! haha Just kidding, this will probably cause havok with cruise control, the ECM keeps track of how many times you push in the clutch to make sure everything is working properly. In fact, I'm not sure if disabling the lower switch will cause problems or not.

JCtx

If you short them all, you'd blow a fuse, since both greens are positive .

Hey, thanks for the explanation. Makes sense to use a thin wire so you can just push the switch back in, but it'd have to be done carefully as not to touch the other positive wire. I don't want to mess with it now, but will reconsider it when I have to order something from a dealer, to buy those plastic plugs that hold the underdash tray in place, since they always get ruined after removal.

glenB

I had to go back to an 07 wire diagram to get a schematic with a manual trans for starting. However, all the wires were the same up to the '12 MY on the auto's so I'm pretty confident that the manual wiring will be the same. But I could be wrong

Jumper the pink wire (terminal A) to the Purple/White (terminal B)

terminal A comes from the ECM fuse 15A and terminal B goes to the Crank Relay

There's also a Clutch Position Switch - this has a Grey wire at terminal A and Pink at terminal B

JoesC5

You sure on the transmission? If you unplug the CAGS solenoid at the transmission, the computer will know about it. You have to install a 2,000 ohm resistor to complete the circuit to keep the computer happy.

JCtx

It's different on manuals (clutch vs brake pedal). There're 3 wires on the clutch switch: solid green, green with white stripe, and solid brown. And I was wrong too; just heard from my buddy, and it's not a switch, but a rheostat, so the ECU must disable cruise (if activated) and enable the starter based on the appropriate rheostat's signal. Two switches would have been a lot better . Ashanson was on the right track, although ECU doesn't care how many times you depress the clutch pedal .

Bottom line is messing with those wires to bypass the clutch signal would at least disable the cruise disconnect function, plus most likely throw a CEL. I guess manufacturers are making it harder and harder for tinkerers to disable crap they must install but we don't want, like starter interlock, NPP and CAGS solenoids, etc. I'm definitely not going to mess with this folks. Looks like the days to bypass that switch are gone . Have a great weekend gang.

JoesC5

It was easier to disable the clutch safety switch on a 1977 Nova.

JCtx

Even on my 2010 Accord coupe 6MT was a piece of cake, because it was a simple, 2-wire switch for the clutch, and another for cruise disconnect. First car I didn't even attempt it was the M3, starting with the single-stage push-button ignition. But I bet it also had a rheostat switch, since it had 'hill-assist', which releases brakes at the friction point, which is somewhere in the middle of pedal travel. I see no reason to have a rheostat on the Vette, but it has one, so we're screwed . But looking at the pedal, with that big a$$ spring taking a bunch of space, no easy way to mount 2 switches, so guess GM didn't have a choice.

Project was permanently aborted gang, so thread is over . Thanks again for the input folks.

ashanson

Hmm, I guess the CTS-V ECM is different. I know it monitors the number of times the top switch is activated and disables cruise (and sets code P0833 clutch position sensor) if it's triggered too many times in a certain range. Maybe the corvette doesn't monitor top switch except to disable cruise, I figured GM would have re-used some of that programming.

JCtx

Remember it's not a switch anymore; it's a rheostat. So based on voltage, the ECM can know where the clutch is at any time, and it can behave like many switches at any point in the pedal travel. I could bet cash money the CTS-V has the same thing, but a quick look below can put the issue to rest. Check it .

Finally, cruise is disabled immediately after you touch the clutch when activated, so no need to 'count' anything. Oh, and forgot about launch control; I bet a rheostat is needed for that feature. The days of bypassing a clutch switch on nice cars (push-button ignition, launch control, hill assist, etc) are over folks . Good day.

BEZ06

Hey ELP_JC!! Just curious, but are you the same ELP_JC that wrote this in another thread???

If that's you, it seems to indicate in that quote that you would never do anything to the car to change it from the way it was designed, engineered, tested, built, and delivered!!!

However, in this thread you want to totally change the clutch switch!!!

I think somebody did a forum identity theft on you and posted using your ID!!

Or, if it was you that wrote that, I think you've got it exactly 180 degrees wrong. Personally I have absolutely no problem at all swapping to track pads for HPDE's - and some of my track pads are the one piece ones, and they work great!!

Butt....there's absolutely no reason that I would feel the need to screw with the clutch switch!!!

Maybe you're just a lot older than me and you're stuck with a bad case of "the way it used to be" syndrome, and just because cars didn't have a clutch switch in the old days, it shouldn't have one nowadays.

I guess as a young feller I'm more able to accept advances in technology - actually I embrace improvements in technology!!! There are lots of things I don't particularly like that have been made mandatory on cars (or elsewhere in society), but generally I don't feel any need to bypass those features.

So.....I'm a little confused by your contradictory views on different features of the car.

Or, maybe somebody stole your forum ID......hmmmmmmm!!

Bob