Harmonic balancer install question
04-23-2016, 05:41 PM
#1
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Harmonic balancer install question
Well I got the rack out and about to install a ATI balancer, pinned, with an ARP bolt. But I'm getting some conflicting info from the forum as far as install goes.
Some say to use the stock bolt to draw the balancer on and torque to 240ft-lbs. Then install new bolt to 37ft-lbs and 140 degrees.
Others say since its being installed with an ARP bolt, just to seat the balancer (I rented a balancer install tool) and simply torque the ARP bolt to 235ft-lbs using loctite and thats it. Not to do the 37ft-lbs and 140 degree turn cause its not a stretch bolt like factory.
How should I go about this?
Some say to use the stock bolt to draw the balancer on and torque to 240ft-lbs. Then install new bolt to 37ft-lbs and 140 degrees.
Others say since its being installed with an ARP bolt, just to seat the balancer (I rented a balancer install tool) and simply torque the ARP bolt to 235ft-lbs using loctite and thats it. Not to do the 37ft-lbs and 140 degree turn cause its not a stretch bolt like factory.
How should I go about this?
04-23-2016, 06:07 PM
#2
Le Mans Master
Try checking the ARP website for a definitive answer. I went 37# plus 140 degrees but that was with a GM torque to yield bolt. Pretty sure that 235# is more in line for the ARP based on what I have seen recently.
I have also read that ARP suggests using their lube instead of Loctite.
I have no positive answer but if I were you, I would get the correct info from ARP. You don't want that grenade going off down there.
I have also read that ARP suggests using their lube instead of Loctite.
I have no positive answer but if I were you, I would get the correct info from ARP. You don't want that grenade going off down there.
Last edited by HBsurfer; 04-23-2016 at 06:08 PM.
04-23-2016, 07:45 PM
#3
Melting Slicks
Try checking the ARP website for a definitive answer. I went 37# plus 140 degrees but that was with a GM torque to yield bolt. Pretty sure that 235# is more in line for the ARP based on what I have seen recently.
I have also read that ARP suggests using their lube instead of Loctite.
I have no positive answer but if I were you, I would get the correct info from ARP. You don't want that grenade going off down there.
I have also read that ARP suggests using their lube instead of Loctite.
I have no positive answer but if I were you, I would get the correct info from ARP. You don't want that grenade going off down there.
DO NOT use a bolt to run up the HB on the crankshaft, use the correct install tool.
APR Instructions from their web site;
04-23-2016, 09:08 PM
#4
Melting Slicks
If you are going to pin the damper just use ARP thread lubricant and all you need is 130 lbs torque. Of course more won't hurt anything but it ain't coming lose though.
04-23-2016, 10:53 PM
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St. Jude Donor '15
ARP recommendation is 235 ft lbs for their bolt if memory serves. I sure as hell wouldn't leave it at 130 ft lbs.
04-24-2016, 12:26 AM
#6
Melting Slicks
yup, use their lube and 235 ft. lbs. even with the pinning.
Also make sure to get the red RTV on both sides of the washer.
And ditto on NOT using the factory bolt to draw the hub on. Great way to yank the threads out of the crank. You said you rented a balancer install tool, so use that to draw the hub on. I heated mine in the oven to 250 degrees for 30 minutes thinking it might help, nah, I dont think it did anything.
Also make sure to get the red RTV on both sides of the washer.
And ditto on NOT using the factory bolt to draw the hub on. Great way to yank the threads out of the crank. You said you rented a balancer install tool, so use that to draw the hub on. I heated mine in the oven to 250 degrees for 30 minutes thinking it might help, nah, I dont think it did anything.
04-24-2016, 01:13 PM
#7
Safety Car
Well I got the rack out and about to install a ATI balancer, pinned, with an ARP bolt. But I'm getting some conflicting info from the forum as far as install goes.
Some say to use the stock bolt to draw the balancer on and torque to 240ft-lbs. Then install new bolt to 37ft-lbs and 140 degrees.
Others say since its being installed with an ARP bolt, just to seat the balancer (I rented a balancer install tool) and simply torque the ARP bolt to 235ft-lbs using loctite and thats it. Not to do the 37ft-lbs and 140 degree turn cause its not a stretch bolt like factory.
How should I go about this?
Some say to use the stock bolt to draw the balancer on and torque to 240ft-lbs. Then install new bolt to 37ft-lbs and 140 degrees.
Others say since its being installed with an ARP bolt, just to seat the balancer (I rented a balancer install tool) and simply torque the ARP bolt to 235ft-lbs using loctite and thats it. Not to do the 37ft-lbs and 140 degree turn cause its not a stretch bolt like factory.
How should I go about this?
Last edited by irok; 04-24-2016 at 01:18 PM.
04-24-2016, 02:50 PM
#8
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St. Jude Donor '15
Yeah, already been stated.. but I'll say it again, DO NOT use the stock bolt to pull the balancer on. Use a balancer install tool
You can use the old bolt to ensure the balancer is seated all the way by installing it and torquing it to 240 ft lbs or whatever, then remove it and install the ARP bolt for the final go. But don't use the old bolt to try to pull the pulley on.. there are surprisingly few threads engaged even with the balancer IS installed all the way.. much less when it's not.
You can use the old bolt to ensure the balancer is seated all the way by installing it and torquing it to 240 ft lbs or whatever, then remove it and install the ARP bolt for the final go. But don't use the old bolt to try to pull the pulley on.. there are surprisingly few threads engaged even with the balancer IS installed all the way.. much less when it's not.
04-24-2016, 03:21 PM
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Ok. Let me ask this...from what I understand the balancer doesn't get fully seated flush to the crank snout. There needs to be a certain hub snout depth. That's understandable. And to achieve that proper depth I'll use an install tool to draw the balancer on. But what is keeping the balancer from seating flush, or even seating a bit further on the crank when the final crank bolt is torqued down. You'd think that'd draw the pulley on even more and screw up the hub snout depth.
04-24-2016, 05:02 PM
#10
Safety Car
this
Ok. Let me ask this...from what I understand the balancer doesn't get fully seated flush to the crank snout. There needs to be a certain hub snout depth. That's understandable. And to achieve that proper depth I'll use an install tool to draw the balancer on. But what is keeping the balancer from seating flush, or even seating a bit further on the crank when the final crank bolt is torqued down. You'd think that'd draw the pulley on even more and screw up the hub snout depth.
Last edited by irok; 04-25-2016 at 06:34 PM.
04-24-2016, 05:45 PM
#11
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St. Jude Donor '15
It does not seat against the crank snout. There's a gap between the end of the crank snout and the balancer... like you just said.
The back of the balancer will seat up against the lower timing gear which stops it from going any further once you get it on all the way. The point of all the torquing is to get it to seat all the way down so it doesn't move later.
The back of the balancer will seat up against the lower timing gear which stops it from going any further once you get it on all the way. The point of all the torquing is to get it to seat all the way down so it doesn't move later.
Last edited by schpenxel; 04-24-2016 at 05:46 PM.
04-24-2016, 05:47 PM
#12
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St. Jude Donor '15
Ok. Let me ask this...from what I understand the balancer doesn't get fully seated flush to the crank snout. There needs to be a certain hub snout depth. That's understandable. And to achieve that proper depth I'll use an install tool to draw the balancer on. But what is keeping the balancer from seating flush, or even seating a bit further on the crank when the final crank bolt is torqued down. You'd think that'd draw the pulley on even more and screw up the hub snout depth.
04-24-2016, 06:41 PM
#13
Safety Car
It does not seat against the crank snout. There's a gap between the end of the crank snout and the balancer... like you just said.
The back of the balancer will seat up against the lower timing gear which stops it from going any further once you get it on all the way. The point of all the torquing is to get it to seat all the way down so it doesn't move later.
The back of the balancer will seat up against the lower timing gear which stops it from going any further once you get it on all the way. The point of all the torquing is to get it to seat all the way down so it doesn't move later.
Last edited by irok; 04-24-2016 at 06:45 PM.
04-25-2016, 01:44 AM
#14
Melting Slicks
My damper has come lose with red thread lock and 240 lbs torq but not with pins and blue thread lock at 130 lbs torq as recomended by Innovators West fot their pinned damper is possible ATI may recomend different but will nice to know what they say.