whats the cheapest way to build a track car
08-28-2016, 07:54 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
whats the cheapest way to build a track car
I've been thinking about building a full on track car. I want to stay with the C6Z platform for obvious reasons. But I don't want to deal with the LS7 issues. If any of you have followed my threads, you'll see, I have had my fair share of LS7 problems. So I was thinking about an LT1 or LS3 with twin turbos. This will give me plenty of power at a reasonable boost so the engine will live for many seasons. I did think of super charging but that creates some parasitic load, whereas, turbos don't Thoughts on this are appreciated. It just seems turbos would be less troublesome. I will be completely happy with 600 rwhp.
I'd like to hear what others are doing or thinking of doing.
I'd like to hear what others are doing or thinking of doing.
08-28-2016, 08:38 PM
#2
Safety Car
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First off there is no such thing as a cheap track build. Your best bet is to find a complete car with most if not all of the mods you want installed. For a large number of reasons, stay away from boosted motors for track use other than drag racing.
08-28-2016, 09:19 PM
#5
Drifting
Thread Starter
I was considering the turbos to get the power back to the LS7 powerband or higher. And I considered turbos because of all the Porsches and BMW's on the track running turbos. Also, I would think the throttle input may be more predictable with a turbo. But I suppose I can get the power from HCI. But I expect the cam arrangement might hurt longevity. Your thoughts are apprecieated
08-28-2016, 09:32 PM
#6
Racer
I personally prefer a NA car for a road circuit, the torque is much easier to control.
My tuned 135i was fun, but when the boost built it was very easy to overdrive the tires.
My tuned 135i was fun, but when the boost built it was very easy to overdrive the tires.
08-29-2016, 12:32 AM
#7
Safety Car
If you are worried about predictability on the throttle you can't beat NA. Go big cubes. Longevity won't be an issue if you get the right combo. Road racing a c6 vette isn't cheap...you can have a whole lot of fun in an older generation as well.
08-29-2016, 07:42 AM
#8
Race Director
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NCM Sinkhole Donor
Yes I agree, it may not be cheap. I just want to do track events. No racing
I was considering the turbos to get the power back to the LS7 powerband or higher. And I considered turbos because of all the Porsches and BMW's on the track running turbos. Also, I would think the throttle input may be more predictable with a turbo. But I suppose I can get the power from HCI. But I expect the cam arrangement might hurt longevity. Your thoughts are apprecieated
I was considering the turbos to get the power back to the LS7 powerband or higher. And I considered turbos because of all the Porsches and BMW's on the track running turbos. Also, I would think the throttle input may be more predictable with a turbo. But I suppose I can get the power from HCI. But I expect the cam arrangement might hurt longevity. Your thoughts are apprecieated
08-29-2016, 09:38 AM
#9
Drifting
Thread Starter
My lap times at VIR are pretty decent I think. 2.05-2.10 depending on how bad I mess up. If I don't mind going two wheels off I can go thru turn 11 at 100mph. This is in a stock Z06 sans the intake and headers and tune. And I'm really fast thru the uphill ss's. But the last time I mentioned this on this forum I was called a liar because I don't have any track data. The last track day I went to was with the Potomac Audi club. I was the fastest car there except for one full on race Porsche with a $75k engine. He was a full 2-3 seconds a lap faster than me. But I was faster than him thru the SS's. He killed me at Oak Tree every time.
I do have some aero. splitter, side skirts, full width low spoiler. Pressure relief vents in front inner fenders, Diffuser, urethane bushings, T1 sways
Please don't see this as bragging. Just sharing. Every ones input is appreciated
08-29-2016, 01:09 PM
#10
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C6 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
Since you already have the car you seem to have set up well, it sounds like you'd be happy to use it as a dedicated track car, but you'd like a more reliable engine. I'm guessing a used '10+ dry sump LS3 would be a drop-in and adding a cam, ported TB & IM, Vararam, and the headers you already have, would get you real close or a bit more power than the stock LS7. Assuming the LS7 you currently have is still good, selling it would probably result in leftover cash from the LS3 expense. Just change valve springs on the LS3 as part of your annual maintenance routine.
Once you dedicate the car to track duty, you can lighten it as much as you want and even sell off the excess parts. As a ballpark figure, about every 100# is good for 10HP.
Once you dedicate the car to track duty, you can lighten it as much as you want and even sell off the excess parts. As a ballpark figure, about every 100# is good for 10HP.
08-29-2016, 01:53 PM
#11
Drifting
Thread Starter
Since you already have the car you seem to have set up well, it sounds like you'd be happy to use it as a dedicated track car, but you'd like a more reliable engine. I'm guessing a used '10+ dry sump LS3 would be a drop-in and adding a cam, ported TB & IM, Vararam, and the headers you already have, would get you real close or a bit more power than the stock LS7. Assuming the LS7 you currently have is still good, selling it would probably result in leftover cash from the LS3 expense. Just change valve springs on the LS3 as part of your annual maintenance routine.
Once you dedicate the car to track duty, you can lighten it as much as you want and even sell off the excess parts. As a ballpark figure, about every 100# is good for 10HP.
Once you dedicate the car to track duty, you can lighten it as much as you want and even sell off the excess parts. As a ballpark figure, about every 100# is good for 10HP.
About the headers, I have 1 7/8" with 3" out the back Will that be too large for the LS3 heads. And since you mentioned it, I assume the headers will bolt up to the LS3 heads
Last edited by rabrooks; 08-29-2016 at 01:53 PM.
08-29-2016, 03:35 PM
#13
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I have considered that. But my car is a ZL3 with everything and I'd prefer it go to someone else that will enjoy it. I will feel better getting a salvage title chassis or complete car and go from there. But I do hope to stay with the Z06 platform for all the goodies it offers.
About the headers, I have 1 7/8" with 3" out the back Will that be too large for the LS3 heads. And since you mentioned it, I assume the headers will bolt up to the LS3 heads
About the headers, I have 1 7/8" with 3" out the back Will that be too large for the LS3 heads. And since you mentioned it, I assume the headers will bolt up to the LS3 heads
The headers will bolt on just fine and will be sized OK for use with a cammed motor. You might want to try downsizing to 2.5" at the back of the X-pipe, if the temperature loss between there and the muffler is more than 30-40*.
08-29-2016, 08:56 PM
#14
Drifting
This is very true. And I do have some room to grow. I wanted to go to Virtil Roos but that's for later at this point.
My lap times at VIR are pretty decent I think. 2.05-2.10 depending on how bad I mess up. If I don't mind going two wheels off I can go thru turn 11 at 100mph. This is in a stock Z06 sans the intake and headers and tune. And I'm really fast thru the uphill ss's. But the last time I mentioned this on this forum I was called a liar because I don't have any track data. The last track day I went to was with the Potomac Audi club. I was the fastest car there except for one full on race Porsche with a $75k engine. He was a full 2-3 seconds a lap faster than me. But I was faster than him thru the SS's. He killed me at Oak Tree every time.
I do have some aero. splitter, side skirts, full width low spoiler. Pressure relief vents in front inner fenders, Diffuser, urethane bushings, T1 sways
Please don't see this as bragging. Just sharing. Every ones input is appreciated
My lap times at VIR are pretty decent I think. 2.05-2.10 depending on how bad I mess up. If I don't mind going two wheels off I can go thru turn 11 at 100mph. This is in a stock Z06 sans the intake and headers and tune. And I'm really fast thru the uphill ss's. But the last time I mentioned this on this forum I was called a liar because I don't have any track data. The last track day I went to was with the Potomac Audi club. I was the fastest car there except for one full on race Porsche with a $75k engine. He was a full 2-3 seconds a lap faster than me. But I was faster than him thru the SS's. He killed me at Oak Tree every time.
I do have some aero. splitter, side skirts, full width low spoiler. Pressure relief vents in front inner fenders, Diffuser, urethane bushings, T1 sways
Please don't see this as bragging. Just sharing. Every ones input is appreciated
If you are driving as you say and I believe you are. You are doing extremely well with a basically stock car. Which also speaks highly of the ability of good driver and good car.
Good luck with whatever you do.
08-30-2016, 08:21 AM
#15
Drifting
Thread Starter
Yes that's pretty much the plan. I have made a few contacts but haven't found the right deal yet. The most recent Texas floods may introduce a few to the market. Theft recovery is on the radar too.
08-30-2016, 08:22 AM
#16
Le Mans Master
I'm going through the shakedown process on my new C6 track car right now. I went the route of taking a salvage car, caging it, adding a big radiator, coolers, Ultrashield seats, harnesses, Sparco wheel. I've had it out for two track days and haven't had a clean session yet. No matter what, there are always issues with "abused" cars. Old/cracked hoses, bad water pump, melted plastic/caps from the heat of whatever happened under the hood, discovering that the car has 4.10 rear gears the first time down the straight when you hit the rev limiter and have to shift to 5th, etc. Sorry... I'm a little frustrated with my car right now.
I would avoid a flood car like the plague unless you are going to rewire the whole car. C6s have enough electronic gremlins on their own without adding a whole lot of water to the mix.
Buy my C5Z06 and cage it. That's what I should have done but didn't want to destroy a really nice street car by turning it into a racecar. It would have been easier and cheaper in the long run.
08-30-2016, 08:22 AM
#17
Safety Car
Lots of cars lost in the recent flooding in my area; but after Katrina the cars are destroyed or dismantled for parts instead of receiving salvage titles...regardless it may be worth looking into.
09-02-2016, 10:48 AM
#19
FIRST OFF - there is no such animal as a "cheap track car" - there are Many Many ways to make very expensive track cars - but no matter what - they are expensive. Probably the least expensive way in the long run is to buy a used race car (something that didn't start out life as a street car).
OK - That being said - Priority #1 is Safety. I don't caer if your last name is Prost, Schumacher or Mears - eventually - you are going to have a component fail, and the car is not going to be controllable, so you need a full cage, a good seat (preferably a containment seat), a HANS, good belts, etc. etc. etc. You also need all the brakes you can fit in the car - and hard core brake cooling - have you ever hear of a pro race driver saying the car had too much brake ??? I don't know VIR too well, but if you have a tire fail in the carousel at Watkins Glen - you are going to be in the wall !!!! The car will be hurt - but walking away is the key thing.
As far a making power - that's the last thing to worry about - but if you are looking for about 600 usable HP, you probably want to avoid boost. 600 HP and 500+ ft lb of torque is achievable with a large displacement block and standard mods (good heads, a reasonable cam etc.). The nice thing about torque is that it sometimes eliminates the need to downshift, and that generally translates to less mistakes and lower lap times.
You didn't say - but if you are looking to be playing at this level - plan on towing the car to and from the event. As I said - parts break, particularly when you're driving at 9.5 - tenths and it's only a matter of time before you find yourself unable to drive the car back home after an event - hopefully it's a minor failure - but plan on a trailer and a tow vehicle.
OK - That being said - Priority #1 is Safety. I don't caer if your last name is Prost, Schumacher or Mears - eventually - you are going to have a component fail, and the car is not going to be controllable, so you need a full cage, a good seat (preferably a containment seat), a HANS, good belts, etc. etc. etc. You also need all the brakes you can fit in the car - and hard core brake cooling - have you ever hear of a pro race driver saying the car had too much brake ??? I don't know VIR too well, but if you have a tire fail in the carousel at Watkins Glen - you are going to be in the wall !!!! The car will be hurt - but walking away is the key thing.
As far a making power - that's the last thing to worry about - but if you are looking for about 600 usable HP, you probably want to avoid boost. 600 HP and 500+ ft lb of torque is achievable with a large displacement block and standard mods (good heads, a reasonable cam etc.). The nice thing about torque is that it sometimes eliminates the need to downshift, and that generally translates to less mistakes and lower lap times.
You didn't say - but if you are looking to be playing at this level - plan on towing the car to and from the event. As I said - parts break, particularly when you're driving at 9.5 - tenths and it's only a matter of time before you find yourself unable to drive the car back home after an event - hopefully it's a minor failure - but plan on a trailer and a tow vehicle.
09-02-2016, 12:08 PM
#20
Drifting
Since you already have the car you seem to have set up well, it sounds like you'd be happy to use it as a dedicated track car, but you'd like a more reliable engine. I'm guessing a used '10+ dry sump LS3 would be a drop-in and adding a cam, ported TB & IM, Vararam, and the headers you already have, would get you real close or a bit more power than the stock LS7. Assuming the LS7 you currently have is still good, selling it would probably result in leftover cash from the LS3 expense. Just change valve springs on the LS3 as part of your annual maintenance routine.
Once you dedicate the car to track duty, you can lighten it as much as you want and even sell off the excess parts. As a ballpark figure, about every 100# is good for 10HP.
Once you dedicate the car to track duty, you can lighten it as much as you want and even sell off the excess parts. As a ballpark figure, about every 100# is good for 10HP.