Dirteater19

I do debate a cam but don't want something wild. Any quick recommendations? I like the thought of an LS9 but am looking at trying for 50rwhp more and I here maybe 20rwhp with the LS9.[/QUOTE]

You should pick up more than 20rwhp with that cam and a new tune on an already S/C car. For reference, I made 550rwhp on a stock motor and AandA kit and then 625 with the LS9 cam and tune. Only added a flowmaster cat back at the same time, I attribute most of the gains to the cam shaft.

5knives

The first 4 mods to my C6 were a Tune, Vararam, a Borla catback, and gears. This was a really fun car, especially as a daily driver. I was very budget minded at the time and I figured this would make my car just a little quicker than stock and still be reliable for my commute. The catback was done for aural enjoyment during the drive, not for any expected power gains. With your NPPs you don't need to worry about that. My next step was a cam and headers. I will admit this. On the drive home from the shop after picking it up with the cam/headers, I had some regrets. It sounded mean and had the power, but it lost a lot of the sophistication GM built into the car. It was noticeably louder and sounded mean, but I thought to myself, "I have to drive this everyday now? Do I really want to make this kind of a scene every time I go to work, or the store, or anywhere for that matter?" A hard stomp on the throttle usually put those feelings aside but they would still pop up from time to time. That may not bother you though. Things quickly spiraled out of control and I'm no longer anywhere near that simple build. But my C6 is also no longer my daily driver.

I have to agree with HOXXOH and make an adjustment to my original recommendation. Since gears were one of my first major mods to my C6, and at the time my use of the car was the same as your intended use, I can attest to them being a must as your first real modification before headers. Your around town driving will be enhanced dramatically and you'll surprise a lot of other cars off the line. The only caveat is if you have plans to go FI in the future. Some have found gears to be too much with boost but that is still dependent on tires and trap speed so you'd have to talk to the FI guys for more info. But again, you have to be honest with yourself. You may really want another S/C Corvette, but are you realistically going to have one? Only you can answer that. Headers are a great power mod and set the platform for just about every future build, some turbo kits aside. But I feel gears offer a more bang for your buck enjoyment in the now. It's important to know your end goal but don't delude yourself either and make a decision now based on wishful thinking.

So based on your intended use as a daily driver with no strip or track racing; CAI, tune, and gears. (3.90/4.10s that's a whole other debate) Z manifolds if you can swing it but if it meant no gears, I'd go with the gears first. Then a proper wheel/tire combo as HOXXOH suggested. I had this exact set up and loved it. I have no doubt you will too.

Or....you can say fvck it all and just strap a blower on it and be done.

HOXXOH

I think this is about us older guys who have been there and done that. We tend to see things that many younger guys haven't experienced. In the process of this thread, we've learned a bit about the OP and remember it was us a few years ago.

Nelson765

My car is a 6 speed manual with the Z51 performance package. Doesn't the Z51 has better gears already? It is my understanding that swapping rear end gears is a big and costly job. A local shop offer a "special" gear swap package for $2400 plus tax. I can get the CAI, headers and tune for about the same price. That is if I go with the top brand headers, if I find used headers or go with second tier headers the cost go down to half. Any thoughts on that?

Suns_PSD

The Z51 has the 1-3rd gears being lower. 4th and up is the same. The gap to 4th is huge as a result.

The gearing sucks in Corvettes imo. Did you know they literally are geared to run like 250mph stock? Even with 4.10s it's like 215 theoretical top speed. Totally dumb.

You can't really make it 'correct' by just swapping the rear ratio, but you make it the best it can be.

Ideally it would have a tall 1st gear, tight 2-5 gears' and a 6th gear that topped out at 170mph. Then it would haul *** and be the most functional in day to day use.

That price you quoted is actually a really good price for a set of installed gears in a C6. Believe It or not traction is also vastly improved with the lower gear ratios.

5knives

It's the gear ratios in the trans that are different in the Z51, not the rear. All manual C6s have 3.42 gears in the rear, including the ZO6 and ZR1. The trans gearing in the Z51 is designed somewhat for autocrossing and short tight track courses.


In the beginning you seemed hesitant to get headers due to the increased noise. And based on your above statement, gears will accomplish this better than headers. I know it's hard to wrap your head around the benefits of gears. The standard mods for just about all cars has always started with a CAI and exhaust. If you get a chance to drive a gear'd car I suggest you try it out.

Ragtop 99

Fish tailing may be controllable, but I stomp the gas in 3rd with more power than stock and it all goes to pushing the car forward. Don't wait on the tires. You are not using all the power you have.

Regarding the cam, I no longer have the dyno info. The absolute gains were decent, but besides adding power everywhere, the power past peak HP carried much better than stock, so it was much more fun to buzz the redline. Patrick G could easily spec it for the LS3 if you decide to go that route.

Nelson765

Thanks for clarifying the gear ratio of the Z51 package, this information is not readily available and some of us don't have the institutional knowledge that comes with years of experience modifying Corvettes.

The noise was not a consideration, I did mention that I want to keep the npp so I would have the option to select between loud and quite. I have the mtw and keep them open 95% of the time.

I heard before about the difference that changing the gear would make and you are absolutely right, it is hard to visualize it. I would love to have the opportunity to drive one. This is not discussed often as performance upgrades but I can see how it would improve the times and the feel. But it cost as much as a good cam package or as much as a CAI/Headers/Tune package.

Nelson765

I would like to learn more about the cam with stock exhaust. So far, I'm still getting conflicting information. I understand the logic of the standard progression but if just a cam produces more hp than the CAI/Headers and the cost is similar, the cam might be a good option. Not many people do cams first or by itself so I can't find solid numbers on that option. I recognize and respect Anthony's (LG) expertiseand earlier in this post he mention poor results with a cam upgrade and stock exhaust. But I don't think it was an LS3.

HOXXOH

Lots of info available on the corvetteactioncenter.com sister site. For 2008 specs see: http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...2008press.html
Gear ratios will be near the bottom of the page.

Post up a request to drive someone's 3.90 or 4.10 geared car in the general section. Specify how far from your location you're willing to travel to do it. Lot's of Vettes in FL, so you might get a chance to try it.

Do a google search for C6 gear swap. In 10 seconds I found complete 3.90 & 4.10 differentials for $1400 that you could swap in your garage. Most likely even better deals are available.

Suns_PSD

IMO going catless is a HUGE mistake.

It stinks, it's loud, it's bad for our air, and it literally makes 1-2 more rwhp.

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

No, it was an LS6 if I remember right, but the physics behind it don't change.

Nelson765

Great advice. I'm sorry to keep asking but there ares so many angles and options. For some reason, that website never came up in my Google searches. Thanks again.

Nelson765

Not to doubt your experience and expertise but several reputable shops, including Lingerfelter, offer packages (claiming very good numbers) of cam upgrades without the supporting mods (headers,CAI). Am I reading it worng? Are they all assuming that the supporting mods are in place?

I understand the logical progression that everyone does, I'm just looking outside the box for other angles.

Again, I'm not challenging your position, just trying to educate myself.

5knives

I didn't look into the specific shop but I would think all cam packages are designed with the assumption that the engine has already been modded to where the next logical progression would be a cam. This would include intake and exhaust mods like a CAI and headers.

I understand what you are going for with a cam and no header build but I honestly don't think the gains will be worth the expense. But I also have no experience with it either. In extremely simplistic terms, a cam is allowing the engine to breath better internally. While the CAI and headers are allowing it to breath better externally. The cam wont be optimized without the external support.

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

Some shops....especially LPE, you have to watch how they do it. They might quote a HP number with headers but not sell it that way due to EPA regulations as long tube headers (everyone's) are not currently 50 state legal. LPE also will quote flywheel numbers, not rwhp which all of my stuff is. I know it gets confusing just have to read through it all, we all have our own way of providing information, just have to make sure you try to compare apples to apples.


On the gears...I do agree with a lot of the guys here, gearing plays a big role in how fast the car can go either in a straight line or around a race track. Not only rear end ratios but also trans ratios as well. Diff gears are the most common and most affordable to change out and you have a lot of different options for those, just have to pick a use for the car and figure out where you want to be in what gear.

Trans ratios can help too, mostly for road race cars but not always. This requires a bit more work and funds to do. Example, switching from the standard C6 base ratios with a 2.66 first to a close ratio box like the ZR1 in our 2006 W.C. Corvette, was worth over 1.5 seconds a lap at Mid-Ohio which is as good as free HP.

Oddly enough...the deeper the ratio on the gears (3.42 to a 4.10) change the LOWER it will read on the dyno...car didn't loose any power just based on how it calculates it. That change above would be a 10-15 rwhp difference on the dyno same car.

HOXXOH

I've seen a couple other threads the OP posted and I believe he has pretty much chosen the direction he wants to proceed. Whatever he does will be an improvement over what currently exists. So that'll make him happy regardless of the results, since he has no basis for comparison. Some things are best learned by personal experience aka trial and error.

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

Nelson765

Not fair Guys, I'm just trying to educate myself. I am listening and reading all your advice and opinions with an open mind. I made clear that I am a newbie when it comes to mods and there are way too many "opinions" without factual evidence. Even in this thread some of you guys are contradicting each other in some areas.

Regarding the cam without headers; I've been told and there are several articles substantiating that the LS3 air intake, intake manifold and heads were upgraded from the LS2 and that the LS3 responds great to a better cam.

I'm still learning, doing my homework and appreciate all the help I'm getting from you guys.

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

?

I'm lost....the way I saw his post and my reply was that you are new and only you can make the choice...

Maybe I'm reading it wrong but that is the way I took it.

Nothing wrong with that, ultimately you are the one that needs to be happy with the car.

I don't know where myself and HOXXOH have contradicted ourselves but he went about it a different way.....X mods to get Y results at the strip. I was going off strictly HP because that wasn't the title or question of the thread.

If you want to go into making a car fast without making a lot of HP....then we can get real creative with.


Here to help ya any way I can.