0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

The LS3 does have a much better intake manifold and cylinder head design and yes it will respond better to a bigger cam than say that of the LS2, which is why I had brought up doing the FAST intake manifold on there....big difference with those cars.

5knives

There could be some truth to that. GM sells an LS3 crate engine with a "hot cam" supposedly good for 480hp, up from the factory 430hp. I don't believe anything else is changed on the engine.

All of our advice aside, I suggest you call one of the local shops you plan on using. There are some good ones in FL. Ask them if they can spec a cam that will still provide decent power with stock exhaust manifolds. Then have them install and tune it and see where you're at. Here is my concern however. A year down the road you decide you now want to get headers too. You may have left a lot of power on the table by not getting the larger cam that would benefit from the headers.

0MarylandSpeed

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Nelson765

You have been extremely helpful. It was HOXXOH previous comment that sound like I already have my mind set on one direction. I am not set, still learning like crazy, still trying to get more answers.

I can say that base on what I learn so far, I will be going the CAI/Headers/Cam and tune. The supercharger is not an option, anytime soon. Still not sure if I can do all at once or in two separate efforts.

Its all good, just a small misunderstanding. You guys have been great and very patience with all my questions and my ignorance. The information provided has help me immensely and I'm sure that will help many others.

Nelson765

Nice! That is what I'm talking about. That particular piece I haven't heard. 50 hp on just a cam with stock exhaust! That is a very tempting proposition. I am talking to a couple of local shops, but I want to know what I'm doing instead of blindingly trusting everything they say. I was told that I can get up to 60 hp on my LS3 with just a cam swap. But I don't see hardly anyone going that route.

If you get headers later, you should still get additional hp. Does the order of the mods make a big difference?

ptroxx

Not sure if this helps. But. OK I have a 2010 GS LS3 A6 small cam with full Z06 exhaust set up, ported TB and a Haltech CAI and im at about 420 RWHP on a Dynapack .. I would think id be more on other dynos as dynapack seems to always read low number HP ..
I did everything at one time and no base HP numbers Car was stock,,

I can cruise at 70 MPH at get 28MPG

My car B4 this was an A&A SC coupe A6 544WHP
25 MPG on cruise ...

Nelson765

Why doesn't more people know about this? Am I reading this right? Following that clue from Sknives, I end up at the Chevy Performance website. What Sknives seems accurate 1but there is more. GM sells the LS3 in different configurations; stock 430 hp, hot cam 480 hp, ASA cam for 525 hp and with an ASA cam carburated at 533 hp! The difference? As far as I can tell the cams. Stock everything else, including exhaust. What am I missing?

Here are the links;

http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...ls376-480.html

http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...ls376-525.html

http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...ls376-515.html

They even list and explain the upgraded cam with specs and part numbers. Now I'm really confuse. I understand that it will be more than just the cam, (springs, retainers, pushrods, etc), but it seems that everything else is stock.

Nelson765

It does help. Those numbers do look low for the mods and yes, it seems that the dyno numbers are usually not very accurate due to the many uncontrollable variables, including the dyno itself and the tuner plus all the environmental variables. I haven't find accurate information on gains differences from the Z06 exhaust to headers but with the amount and type of mods the hp should be higher. Thank you for posting.

5knives

I'm sure many are aware of them. But when people make the decision to tear into the motor for a cam swap, they probably want to get as much power as they can to justify the price/work since most cams are all within $100+/- of each other. Not that a 50hp gain is anything to be upset about. And I'm sure you'll still pick up power if you add headers later on. The dyno numbers seem to be about where LS3 bolt ons are, like you mentioned earlier. So then one question comes to mind. Would you rather install a smaller cam now that may limit your future power goals? Or would you rather install bolt ons now for about the same power with room to grow down the road?

Hypothetical numbers just to illustrate my point:

Small cam no bolt ons = 420rwhp
Small cam with bolt ons added later = 450rwhp
or
Bolt ons = 410rwhp
Bolt ons with a larger cam added later= 480rwhp

Again these are just hypothetical numbers based on how I view things going. But at this point I'll have to concede my lack of helpful knowledge on these motors and the difference in cam specs. I could be way off base here so I'll let the real shops and more knowledgeable members chime in.

Suns_PSD

My view on cams is a bit different than others.

If you look at overlays of cams (SuperChevy article years okay tested many LS3 cams on the dyno) you notice pretty quickly that once you get over a mild cam, that yes you can gain higher peak hp numbers (which is whatever everyone quotes) but usually the losses everywhere else are pretty substantial. And then you also have other downsides (i.e. mpg, smells, drivability, reliability, clutch, etc...)

Cams provide diminished returns pretty quickly. I have a tiny cam, what could only be called a baby cam. Yet my engine pulls on faster cars out of the turns at the track. I think that even though my peak number is down 20 rwhp, I feel that I have 20hp/ 20tq more from 2K-5K rpm that those bigger cams don't have. And the end result is a car that is faster than the peak number suggests.

If I was buying a cam, I'd buy the Katech Torquer. If you look at that Superchevy article you will see the little Katech Torquer cam has higher average hp than all the other cams, even though it's down on peak hp. Plus you get the practical advantages of a more streetable cam.

OP should not change his cam choice based on whether or not he has headers at this time or not. Buy the right cam and if you have to add headers later, then so be it.

5knives

This is an excellent point and a testament to building your car for its intended use. A strip car, which never drops below a certain RPM, would benefit from the extra power higher in the RPM range. While a track car, which uses brakes and downshifts, would benefit from the broader power curve even though it's down on peak power. As evident by Suns' results. But we also aren't taking into account his skill vs other drivers. But regardless his point is valid.

Just to be clear, I am not advising the OP to go with a big or small cam. Only for him to be sure where he's going with the car and base his cam decision on that. Since I was in his exact shoes at one point, I made my recommendation a few posts back based on my experience. But it certainly isn't the only answer for him.

Nelson765

From the Chevrolet Performance Website

Fuel-injected ferocity for performance cars of all ages

What do you get when you take Chevrolet Performance’s aggressive ASA camshaft — developed for the high-rpm world of circle-track racing — and slip it into an LS3 6.2L engine? The answer is 525 horsepower in one of our most powerful production-based crate engines. We call it the LS376/525, and if take-no-prisoner performance is what you’re looking for in your new Camaro or resto-mod Chevelle, this is it!

The ASA camshaft is a hydraulic roller with .525-inch lift on both sides, along with 226 degrees of duration on the intake side and 236 degrees on the exhaust side. Coupled with a tight, 110-degree lobe separation angle, it helps the engine deliver excellent throttle response and breathe exceptionally well at high rpm. And for durability, we complement the cam with higher-rate valve springs.

LS376/525 DYNO

Here is the link;

http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...ls376-525.html

Again that is a 95 extra HP from just a cam swap and a tune? I know these are engine HP not rwhp but we are talking about 95 extra HP! Looking at the graph the TQ curve looks impressive.

98Pace

I suspect there's more to the GM engine than just a cam swap, otherwise all of the well seasoned tuners that churn out LS3 cars weekly would be doing the same. There's a lot of practical data that shows what headers will get you, what the various cams will gain, etc. The package I chose from 21st Century was advertised as a 525hp package and included both cam and headers. When it was all done, my car came in at 462rwhp which is 520ish after the 12% driveline loss on a M6 is taken out. They clearly know what to expect out of a build. I think if they could hit 525 with just a cam, they along with all of the other tuners would be doing it too.

Your best move is to drive as many modded cars as you can. See what you really like because there is no magic bullet. You aren't going to get high hp without tradeoffs, no matter how you go about building it. Try before you buy or you may end up with something you don't like and will be out the money.

HOXXOH

Actually you do have a direction, but it's not in keeping with your stated use and goals.

Here's what you have:
LS3 Vette base vert with M6 trans and NPP with a M2W.

Here's what you've stated for use and goals:
reliable DD with short commute wanting responsive short acceleration bursts on the street up to redline and triple digits without HP number concerns, but with a minimum of expense.

Here's what you search for:
Headers with a preference for 1 7/8" tubes. Mods with low cost. Anything to increase the HP number. A major focus on cams, with or without supporting mods.

Here's what has been recommended:
Gears, tune, and tires. The biggest contributors to this thread (Anthony, Suns_PSD, 5knives, and myself) have different experiences, knowledge, and goals, yet agree that those three items will produce the greatest improvement to your stated goals.

Here's the direction you currently claim to be intending to go:
CAI, Headers, Cam, and tune. It doesn't match the recommendations based on your goals and finances.

When considering cost, you need to include labor for what you are not capable of doing yourself. Since you elected to sell your previous car because of labor costs, keep in mind that the labor for the cam alone will exceed the labor for all the other mods combined.
BTW, if you do a cam, be sure to include an aftermarket balancer in the deal to avoid the labor required to replace the OEM one when it fails.
Also remember that HP increase quotes for cams are all over the map. The 50 (flywheel) increase is suspect, since the GM "hot cam" was developed decades ago and those specs don't apply to the LS3 very well and certainly not for your application.

I've come to believe your infatuation with a cam is directly related to the sound at idle, which you consider makes the car "mean". If you desire that sound, it's possible for the tuner to create it even with the stock cam.

You can always add icing to the cake, but icing alone lacks the basic substance to meet your goals. The guy in the lane next to you with just cake, will eat your icing lunch.

Nelson765

Really? Words of wisdom . . . from the opening post I mention that I was not going to the track and I was not into racing anyone. As it is, in my short commute I hardly ever encounter anyone worth racing. By the way, I don't care how fast your car is, or how fast you think you are but there is always someone faster than you out there.

HOXXOH

Apparently my assessment on post #97 was correct.

Nelson765

From the opening post;

I am not looking for more opinions or friendly advice, looking for the scientific approach and the back up data. I would like to hear mostly from people with real world numbers and data. I know that a cam only doesn't mean that, it means with the supporting mods. There are several reputable shops offering cam packages regardless supporting mods and they claim some excellent numbers.

What is a realistic number for a half way cam (not mild but not the most aggressive) and a tune but with everything else stock? No supporting mods! Just a good header and a good tune!

From the very beginning it was clear that I was looking for "scientific" documented data on cam upgrades. I also ask about superchargers but decided that it was not my best option at this time. I had an open mind and had no idea what to expect. The subject is complicated, there are way too many ways to increase the hp on this engine. I guess that is a good thing.

Slowly but surely the discussion took a different direction that intended. More and more opinions and personal assessments became the norm. The information overall has been great and the effort and time of everyone has been exceptional. This is one of the most educational threads in recent time here and many people have and will benefit from the information. The thread has 2631 views in about 1 week!

Some of the most recent findings and information have been amazing. I really like the current direction, getting back on point. Lets get back on track. Everyone has been very helpful and the information is benefiting a lot of people. Thanks again and keep the information flowing.

Nelson765

Perhaps . . again that's just your opinion. Ask me if I care. I never ask for your assessment neither.

Your information have been really awesome, your experience provided substance, you brought up some great angles and cool ideas that most don't even think of.

I thank you for all that.

But Your personal assessment . . . unnecessary, offensive, off point, uncalled for. Keep it to yourself, don't mess up a great thread.

grady

Ok guys. Let's be civil and get back on point.

I hate when these discussions become "your choice of cam is not the correct one" or "why would anyone purchase a PD instead of a centrifugal sc?".

I went with the Edlebrock 599 kit. Then I added Pfadt headers, then pulleyed down and added even larger injectors. I know I am pretty much out of room for growth with this setup.

I know I don't have or will have the fastest car out there. It is a quick boulevard cruiser but I would like it a little quicker. Thus the debate on a cam I've been wrestling with over a year.

Of course, it depends on what you want to do with the car as to what way you wish to go when adding power. If a road course one, why would you want to add weight and heat to get power? If a strip one, maybe the weight matters less and the heat can somewhat dissipate between runnings.

Now I don't know what mechanical changes to an SC can be done but I always read about custom ground cams that are tailored to how one drives the car. So how about this, I get a dyno pull, printout and log file. I want a cam which follows the same graph except the points are 10% higher up the Y-axis. How difficult is this to attain?

ptroxx

This is what I have. I have a custom ground cam from Synergy. He calls it his smog cam as it's a very mild cam and should be able to pass smog with it. I know it's a crane cam. I have the cam card but that's about it. All I know is it's nice a mild for Street use. Everyone that hears it loves it. Have I got it smoged yet with no. But I have a good smog shop and not really worried.
I also have full z06 exhaust for better flow. Not headers. But you can pass smog. And 15-20 hp is better than nothing.