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This is the only photo i have on this computor,but all eight are the same.I had these ARH installed at a perforance shop about six years ago which is a dealer for ARH, over the years they was sending me emails that they were making a new set for me.LOL..So much for their life time warannty Huh...ARH SUCKS if you get a bad set.
I chose to invest in a set of the 1 3/4 Super Pros from LGM. Unless you intend to more engine kind of stuff to your car, stick to the 1 3/4 size - bigger tubes will hurt your performance at lower RPMs unless your engine is cranking out enough to need it. They came with new GM gaskets, hi-flow cats, and a race inspired collector and welded x-pipe (in contrast to stamped of some options, or stock, though most base stock is an h-pipe). We love the sound and the how the torque curve feels it has been expanded and starts sooner. Will have the car into to dyno this next week. I did baseline dyno pulls before this and a couple of other options, so it will be interesting to see where we are at now.
Some have commented on CAI options being more expensive per dollar for the performance, and that is clearly true. That said, is you do homework with your brain, you'll find that many options are really useless, while those that do make a difference tend to have a couple of key characteristics. Minimizing air from the engine bay and/or grabbing actual ambient air as directly as possible. Cooler air does have more O2, which means more power - not that can be evaluated on a dyno, but especially those that have run 1/4 mile runs before and after have regular seen some of the options actually make a difference, while you never hear anything but general claims, or just meaningless marketing hype, from others.
I think the best prices for LGM headers come from Maryland Speed - you just have to allow extra time between ordering and shipping. It often takes more time than some other options, but if you have the time, then the savings are there. Mine shipped about one month after I placed the order.
Key here is like you said different day, dyno, car and such. By chance could you say what brand of dyno was used on the 08 figures, and what one was used for the GS figures ?
Thanks
NSF
Sure thing... The '08 was on a Dyna Pack dyno. The wheels were removed from what I can remember & it was bolted up to the machine. I guess that it reads the output directly from the hubs...The '13 was on a roller type dyno (Dynocom Industries) ? I will include both sheets in this post.
Originally Posted by Not So Fast
Key here is like you said different day, dyno, car and such. By chance could you say what brand of dyno was used on the 08 figures, and what one was used for the GS figures ?
Thanks
NSF
I have a 2013 Grand Sport w/6spd manual. I had pretty great results personally with American Racing Headers ceramic coated 1 7/8" long tubes & coated 3" catted X-pipe. (To fit the 3" catted x-pipe I bought mufflers for a Zo6) You could get a 2.5" catted x-pipe if you're keeping your existing mufflers. I got my Headers ceramic coated so they costed a bug hair over what they list for...Some people have told me (this is back in the day mind you) that your car will lose some torque with 1 7/8" vs 1 3/4" Long tubes. My Grand Sport put down 435 lbft. to the wheels with the headers & tuning. It doesn't seem like it lost much of anything.
On a side note...On the ARH Longtube header design, the X in the X-pipe is before the catalytic converters. On most every other Longtube header/x-pipe combo the X in the X-pipe is after the catalytic converters. Can anyone chime in on the science behind this? My Grand Sport put down a bunch more torque than my 08 LS3 w/1 7/8" Kooks & the Kooks style of catted x-pipe into Corsa Xtreme mufflers. Different car, different engine, different dyno, different day, etc...
Do you have a video of the Kooks headers with the corsa xtremes and do if do you have any other mods at the time???
Thanks a lot my last question did you have some drone or any at all with the headers added on? This is more than likely going to be my setup when my warranty expires. I'm going to go with Vengeance Racing stage 3 with the cam.
Thanks a lot my last question did you have some drone or any at all with the headers added on? This is more than likely going to be my setup when my warranty expires. I'm going to go with Vengeance Racing stage 3 with the cam.
On the drone zone, I didn't notice much, if any drone with the Corsa Xtreme & Kooks headers. There was that sweet decel pop & burble at about 1500 rpm. Sounded pretty sweet. Mine had the stock cam, so I couldn't really say what a different cam would throw into the mix for the sound.
Where did you end up going to get the install/tune?
Mike: I/we did the install ourselves, my good friend/neighbor had his lift installed so we decided to give it a try, glad we did cause I know its done with care. I wouldn't try it without a lift though.
It went pretty smoothly, Kooks supplied everything you need plus quality fasteners. Also put the Z-Cool tunnel insulation which DOES cool the tunnel/console down. And while we had it apart I bought new plugs, MSD wires and DEI plug boots, seemed like the time to do it
Tuning was done at Horsepower Connection here in Havasu by Brian Macy
You gonna go over to the dark side to ??? World of difference brother !!!
Bobby
High priced sets don't do anything differently or better than the lower cost sets.
OBX, Texas Speed, Hinson, etc. all do the same as Kooks, ARH, etc. just at a much lower cost to where you can spend those dollars saved on some other mod.
High priced sets don't do anything differently or better than the lower cost sets.
OBX, Texas Speed, Hinson, etc. all do the same as Kooks, ARH, etc. just at a much lower cost to where you can spend those dollars saved on some other mod.
Good, then you buy what you want, I'll buy what I want.
I did a lot of research about this, I guess I just wasted my money cause I went with Kooks, glad I did now that I have them and read what others have said about the lesser priced brands. Maybe its the little things like the 02 extensions that ARE LONG ENOUGH, or the Stage 8 fasteners that they supply and don't break, or an actual X pipe instead of an H pipe, ect.
The old saying may come into play here *
*you get what you pay for*
Whatever floats your boat right
NSF
Last edited by Not So Fast; 05-23-2017 at 03:00 PM.
High priced sets don't do anything differently or better than the lower cost sets.
OBX, Texas Speed, Hinson, etc. all do the same as Kooks, ARH, etc. just at a much lower cost to where you can spend those dollars saved on some other mod.
Good to comfort yourself with that thought, but you're pretty way off base. A lot goes into the material choice, fit, and design of headers. Everything from shape of the opening, length of tube, design of the x-pipe, the design of the collector, position of the cats, if so designed, the easy of swapping a supplied straight pipe for the cats for track days, etc.
Not all headers are designed with the same level of thought, nor do they all perform the same.
Glad you feel good about saving some bucks. I'm glad I made the investment to get into a product that is serving my interests. Always happy for a market with many options, but don't be so quick to pat yourself on the back for savings you seem not to understand.
Good, then you buy what you want, I'll
The old saying may come into play here *
*you get what you pay for*
Whatever floats your boat right
NSF
That has always been the case for me. I've never shied away from spending a bit more on something if the quality is there.
The same holds true when shopping for parts at the local McParts stores. I'll buy OEM first unless its been demonstrated aftermarket is much better - and sometimes it is especially in the world of high performance parts. There is much more to the equation than price points.
High priced sets don't do anything differently or better than the lower cost sets.
OBX, Texas Speed, Hinson, etc. all do the same as Kooks, ARH, etc. just at a much lower cost to where you can spend those dollars saved on some other mod.
Highly disagree! Do some research and you will be more informed.
I'm almost hesitant to make this post. I finally made it to the dyno shop after the upgrade of a handful of items, most of which people have taken me to task on, suggesting I was wasting my money, as no power comes from such parts - missing the larger picture in my opinion. That plus a great set of headers, and 93 Octane gas, plus tuning via Diablo Lew, and we got some pretty great results. The tuning shop had no problem with the numbers once they heard what I had done, and were really interested to have me add a cam to the mix.
Numbers: Baseline peak torque 358, Baseline peak HP 354
Headers + tune peak torque 394, Headers + tune peak HP 424
Graph (dotted lines are baseline, solid are after headers and tune):
We talked about how stock HP for the car is 436 (at the crank, from GM) and he had an option where crank HP could be estimated and it turned out to be 564. Won't make much of this estimation.
Two things stood out to me. As soon as we did the first run, other guys in the shop came over to see what was making so much noise*. Second thing was that the C6 owner running the dyno was really interested in my CAI and the header system. (We knew the CAI had little impact in these numbers, but would out on the track, relative to other things we talked about.) This is a very established shop in our area, involved with autocross, road course stuff, and likely some drag racing work, too. We talked about their next trip down to Miller Motorsports Park, a place with a 4.5 mile road coarse that can be run several different ways. My wife and I were there to see the American Le Mans and it's supporting races run there, many years back.
I post this info for your info. Conclude what you want. I was content that the choices I have made to date are doing what I hoped, increased torque and horsepower, with more useable power at lower RPM. Based on the graph, we succeeded. My butt had already confirmed this, but it's nice to have some numbers to confirm it.
*Based on the sound and numbers, the tech assumed I was running some kind of after market exhaust, which I am not. I have the NPP setup. That means that we go from 3-inch pipe down to 2.5-inch to get into the stock mufflers. I had talked with LGM about this and it actually creates a bit of back pressure which can yield a bit more torque, while putting a bit of a limit on peak HP. I wanted to keep the NPP, so I could use the flaps to quiet things down, when needed. It's music to my ears, but not always for others.
Last edited by Midnight08; 05-25-2017 at 07:19 PM.
Reason: Added bits about stock exhaust.
Nice numbers Midnight. Better than most with the same mods. Forgot, do you have an auto or manual?
It's the MN6.
FWIW, the tech I worked with shared my opinion that some of the other stuff, while not substantial, do address weaknesses that can show up at higher RPM.
Tickled pink for you Midnite, really am. I wished and hoped for your numbers or close anyways but it is what it is
I wish that some of the members lived close enough to one another to see just what a car that made what yours made do a side by side with one like mine that made dramatically lower numbers.
After much researching the subject of "Dynos" and the difference in the number they produce for almost identical car/mods it would be a great tool to maybe settle it somewhat.
Oh well good for you, you got the bragging rights bro Any video of the runs ???
NSF
05-20-2017, 03:19 PM
World of difference brother !!!
