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I bought my springs and rockers like 4 years ago and at that time Brian told me to use the 650 springs due to the rockers................so there is nothing new there.
Personally I would use these rockers over a trunion upgrade any time, considering how many problems ive read about with the trunnions....
Guess I'm in a different boat because I was running stock rockers when I bought the platinum .660" kit and I feel a little more informed now since looking into this stuff. The OEMs are super light compared to Comps and plenty strong for my power requirements. Where HP limits them?...I have no idea. The main weak point is the bearing which either presses out of the housing or the needle bearings break and wind up who knows where in the motor. The trunion upgrade claims to make this better because it has a C clip to keep the bearing from walking out and keeps the needles in in case it does break along with a claimed "hand selected" higher quality bearing. This is already included in the Comps.
EDIT: I know you know all this stuff Jody and have a lot more knowledge that me.
I think the Comps are better than the OEMs but OEMS are better than Comps if you upgrade the trunions simply because of the weight factor. Just my opinion based on no experience at all with them.
Unreal mentioned this to me a while back but I got all pissy with him because he never told me why the OEMs are better,
Guess I'm in a different boat because I was running stock rockers when I bought the platinum .660" kit and I feel a little more informed now since looking into this stuff. The OEMs are super light compared to Comps and plenty strong for my power requirements. Where HP limits them?...I have no idea. The main weak point is the bearing which either presses out of the housing or the needle bearings break and wind up who knows where in the motor. The trunion upgrade claims to make this better because it has a C clip to keep the bearing from walking out and keeps the needles in in case it does break along with a claimed "hand selected" higher quality bearing. This is already included in the Comps.
I think the Comps are better than the OEMs but OEMS are better than Comps if you upgrade the trunions simply because of the weight factor. Just my opinion based on no experience at all with them.
Unreal mentioned this to me a while back but I got all pissy with him because he never told me why the OEMs are better,
That all makes sense except that the comp trunnion upgrade is not lasting. The later bushing style is probably better but haven't seen much proof. The added weight of the rocker has 0 effect on my engine up to 7000 rpm, so I only see upside.... no downside. I believe rollers are easier on the valves and guides too.
I appreciate that and guilty of overthinking things....The proper combination of parts is what you have but don't want to change the whole kit out as recommended and might go with just the shim depending on the OEM weight.
I look at it this way, people move to titanium retainers and hollow stem valves to save 30-50 grams and here I might be adding a few hundred to the moving mass. The least I need to do is have the proper spring pressure to keep it following at 7000
I appreciate that and guilty of overthinking things....The proper combination of parts is what you have but don't want to change the whole kit out as recommended and might go with just the shim depending on the OEM weight.
I look at it this way, people move to titanium retainers and hollow stem valves to save 30-50 grams and here I might be adding a few hundred to the moving mass. The least I need to do is have the proper spring pressure to keep it following at 7000
You could do that and probably be fine. Its the same work to change the springs as to add shims. You could change them and sell yours and the cost would be less than a couple o fhundred. Worth it if you will sleep better at night. LOL
I think the SP001 is the shinier of the two springs. Not sure what your cam lift is but maybe this doesn't apply if you're in the .620" - .640" range cause you will get more pressure. That RED writing only shows up when you look at the specs for the individual spring but have to select the retainer and seal type when configuring the kit in order to see the Warning there..
Sold my gram scale years ago along with my coke cutting stuff and meth lab hardware and ordered a new one for $8 from Amazon, .01g resolution and will have it tonight. Let you know the weight at the tip and gross weight but wont bull off the stock rockers till the the shims get here....maybe mid week
I've seen covers with the Chevrolet logo on them, but then you need to relocate the coils to be able to read the logo. I'm very happy with how mine looks. I just need a black sharpie now so that I can color those big white coil connectors invisible.
You gotta forgive him Jody. He's already been diagnosed with some kind of anticipatory mechanical failure disorder!
LOL. Throw some OCD on top of that. The wife makes fun of me when I sort my M&Ms into colored piles and equal quantity.
I really couldn't believe the difference in weights. The Comps add over 20 grams at the valve stem, swinging up and down at 3600 rpm. They are 3.5 x heavier at the tip. The way I see it is people change to titanium retainers mostly for a 3-5 gram weight savings. If taking 5 grams from the moving mass makes a difference, then adding 20 grams has to have a big effect. Everything I read and see regarding high performance valve trains focuses on reducing weight.
I really couldn't believe the difference in weights. The Comps add over 20 grams at the valve stem, swinging up and down at 3600 rpm. They are 3.5 x heavier at the tip. The way I see it is people change to titanium retainers mostly for a 3-5 gram weight savings. If taking 5 grams from the moving mass makes a difference, then adding 20 grams has to have a big effect. Everything I read and see regarding high performance valve trains focuses on reducing weight.
Interesting! Definitely making me re-think my interest in purchasing aftermarket rockers. I will retain OEM rockers on the LS3 head conversion on the LS2. I'm not sure what I will do on the Superdeck 427 build. Hmmm.....
In case you change your mind, there's a nice new set of Ultra Golds in the For Sale section. Only taken out of the box to weight one of them. $400 is a good price.
My fallback is the trunion upgrade on the OEM rockers but I'm looking into the Ultra Pro Magnums. Contacted a few people and my setup really turns on with a 1.8 and everything is ready for it. I want to go with the studs and Poly locks but can't figure out how the back of the trunion is supported. I like the bolt downs that lock the trunion into the saddle on the pedestals.
Overthinking again. The bulk of that weight is the Center of the rocker which wouldn't have much effect. I think the roller movement would be easier on things than the stock setup.
You're not building an 8500 rpm motor. These will work fine to higher RPMs than we go with no issues
Overthinking again. The bulk of that weight is the Center of the rocker which wouldn't have much effect. I think the roller movement would be easier on things than the stock setup.
You're not building an 8500 rpm motor. These will work fine to higher RPMs than we go with no issues
Much easier on the valve train. Seals,rocker not trying too push valve stem over. RR already have better trunnions, kit comes with better push rods, oil and engine temps drop, my oil temps dropped 20 degrees rpm' wrap up faster Cranes gold race RR I love them
If I shim, these rockers will work fine up to 7000 rpm which is the limit for my setup but why add unnecessary weight when selecting another rocker might avoid that?. I think the new Gold ARCs even added some weight over the old Golds so they are now even heavier. More weight, more chance of float, more spring pressure needed and if weight didn't matter, GM wouldn't have designed such a light OEM rocker and just went with something heavier and cheaper.
I weaseled a Ultra Pro Magnum sample from comp and want to measure the weight at the tip. They are steel and claim lighter than Golds and have an oversize trunion, and they are 1.8s which I want to try out.
The best route is to probably to slap trunions in the OEMs and be done with it like most people but I just want to see what alternatives are available at a reasonable cost.
If I shim, these rockers will work fine up to 7000 rpm which is the limit for my setup but why add unnecessary weight when selecting another rocker might avoid that?. I think the new Gold ARCs even added some weight over the old Golds so they are now even heavier. More weight, more chance of float, more spring pressure needed and if weight didn't matter, GM wouldn't have designed such a light OEM rocker and just went with something heavier and cheaper.
I weaseled a Ultra Pro Magnum sample from comp and want to measure the weight at the tip. They are steel and claim lighter than Golds and have an oversize trunion, and they are 1.8s which I want to try out.
The best route is to probably to slap trunions in the OEMs and be done with it like most people but I just want to see what alternatives are available at a reasonable cost.
I used to be like you and drive myself nuts over everything. Now I just like to use what I know works and drive my car.
Good luck in the research. I'm going to exit this one.
Phil might be on to something here.
I'm beginning to suspect that I may be getting into valve float around 6600rpms, as I've been battling a problem with my car with boost dropping and then throttle flutter and then going into REP mode at the top of third (just past 6600rpm) and I'm pretty sure it only happened since I installed the Ultra Gold rockers on my car, and I'm running the .660" springs, without any shim. I can't be sure that this is the problem, but I'm going to throw the stock rockers back on and test it to see what happens.
If this pans out, I owe Phil a case of beer. Or a big bottle of good rum.
Don't thank me, thank Bryan at BTR. I just repeated what he told me. Not sure where you are on lift, but a shim should do the trick. .030" makes a big difference on open pressure if you have the clearance, .045" even better.
Maybe take your rockers off and ship them to Carson and he can ship them back to you. They will be a lot lighter when you get them back.
EDIT: Possibly you can do me a favor and measure your installed height with that 660 kit. Not sure if you can get in there with a caliper or 6" scale but it would be good to know the compressed spring length when the valves are on the seat. Some rough checking looks like I'm in the low 300 lb. range for valve open with my lift but I just guess at the installed height...just enough for my stock rockers at 7000 IMO
Don't bother if it's a pain in the ***....thx man
07-06-2017, 02:09 PM
Much easier on the valve train. Seals,rocker not trying too push valve stem over. RR already have better trunnions, kit comes with better push rods, oil and engine temps drop, my oil temps dropped 20 degrees rpm' wrap up faster Cranes gold race RR I love them
