tslsa28

One of the fastest street cars in the world around the Nurburgring is the Camaro ZL1 1LE and it has a wet sump. I think that answers the question of whether a wet sump system is ok for track use. I use my C6 with an LS3 and wet sump on the track with Hoosiers and turn lap times with the faster cars and have never had a problem with oil pressure (or consumption). I add an extra quart per the owners manual for track use and drain it out after. I have always defended the wet sump for it's simplicity and that I know so many people racing in NASA, SCCA etc. with wet sump small blocks and LS engines that have never had a problem. A true dry sump might have some advantages for crank pressure and ring seal but I think it is unnecessary in Corvettes and anything other than a full race car. I don't know if the marketing guys or engineers decided to put it in Grand Sports and ZO6s and maybe we'll never know that answer.

Scooter70

The dry sump Grand Sport was a direct result of the LS3 cars blowing motors in SCCA T1 racing. It was well documented in our own Autocrossing&Roadracing section in the 2008-2010 timeframe after the LS3 debuted. At that time, guys were blowing engines very regularly on the racetrack due to oil starvation.

Can you get away with a wet sump for HPDE? Sure. I'm doing it and have been for years on my LS6 and LS2s. However, the LS3 head is a different animal and really needs a dry sump system to maintain oil flow during high G, high RPM cornering.

CI GS

Another cheap option, which would make overfilling a wet sump engine unnecessary, would be an oil accumulator. I bought one of these for my boat years ago. These come in various sizes and some can allow an extra 3 quarts of oil capacity, without overfilling the sump. Cheap, easy insurance for a wetsump engine.
The added advantage of an accumulator is that is that you can use it for pre-oiling the bearings before startup, which is where up to 90% of bearing wear comes from anyhow. Many folks have used these for years for marine, auto-X, road course and drag race applications, and are able run lower than stock oil levels to reduce windage, which the deep skirted LS blocks are prone to generate.
If I ever do a built engine for the Vette, I'll install one of these at the same time.

tslsa28

Scooter70, I didn't mean to open that can of worms about the old LS3 oil starvation issue but I'll make a couple points just about my personal experience. I did compete with mine in Time Trials in NASA's TT2 class in SoCal (I just moved back to NY so am learning Watkins, Lime Rock, etc) on tracks like Willow Springs and Buttonwillow that have very high speed turns. My times are within a few seconds of some of the Corvette race cars and I have won some regional titles in my base 2013 LS3. I know racing is a bit tougher on the engine if you are defending or taking a corner but I wonder if the guys who lost engines ran the correct level with the right oil at the right temperature but you and I will never know. I have been going to the track for about 18 years and do not know anyone personally who lost an LS3 and a lot of Corvette race cars start from base models with wet sumps. But this is just what I have seen personally.
I really just wanted to mention that the Camaro is extremely fast with a wet sump which means it can work if properly designed and used.

tslsa28

[QUOTE=CI GS;1595338942]Another cheap option, which would make overfilling a wet sump engine unnecessary, would be an oil accumulator. I bought one of these for my boat years ago. These come in various sizes and some can allow an extra 3 quarts of oil capacity, without overfilling the sump. Cheap, easy insurance for a wetsump engine.
The added advantage of an accumulator is that is that you can use it for pre-oiling the bearings before startup, which is where up to 90% of bearing wear comes from anyhow. Many folks have used these for years for marine, auto-X, road course and drag race applications, and are able run lower than stock oil levels to reduce windage, which the deep skirted LS blocks are prone to generate.
If I ever do a built engine for the Vette, I'll install one of these at the same time.[/QUOT

CI GS, I know a lot of guys who use Accusumps and they work great. For my street driven car it would be a bit much so I just do the extra quart. I have a pet **** drain plug so it's real easy to drain the extra quart when changing my brake pads to drive back on the street. I think the windage might not be a problem since my extra quart is only in at the track where the high revs keep the oil in the top of the engine so it's not sitting in the pan.

69427

Just a C3 guy here. What's the details on that?

CI GS

[QUOTE=tslsa28;1595344612]I think you're fine doing it that way. Seems like a lot of folks do. To be honest, I run mine with an extra half-quart ever since I installed a Melling HP/HV oil pump back when I did the cam. I haven't seen any noticeable increase in oil being picked up in the catch can, so I doubt there is any problem with windage.

C4-ZR1

There are so many advantages of a dry sump oiling system, the down side is the cost, the cool part of the Corvette engineers designing it into a production car is now there are 1,000s of LSs with a dry sump rather than a 100 or so. The base model C8 is dry sump.

Jaime-Corvette

Good job resurrecting a 5 year old thread lol on top of it being your first post ever!!
cool name btw
how do you even have that name?
Has no one ever named themselves that?
I'm being serious 😶

C4-ZR1

I brought my Red/Red 91 ZR-1 in 1993, and still have it.

chuck dominick

The dry sump Grand Sport was a direct result of the LS3 cars blowing motors in SCCA T1 racing. It was well documented in our own Autocrossing&Roadracing section in the 2008-2010 timeframe after the LS3 debuted. At that time, guys were blowing engines very regularly on the racetrack due to oil starvation.

I somehow managed to blow up an LS3 Grand Sport (dry sump). Personally it's the only one I heard of. So now people are telling me tat the OEM dry sump is a piece of ****. The new engine will have an aftermarket high volume pump. Since I only use it for hide and no racing it seems that the dry sump should never be a problem. Any comments from anyone?
Also, what's the value of that little mesh screen in the bottom of the tank in the outlet tube?

grinder11

Guess that answered that! Welcome to the forum.......

VetteVinnie

Even the LS7 before the dry sump LS3s has issues. I did a lot of oiling system upgrades in my 2008 Z06 while getting it track ready (I never tracked it, but it was tracked all the time by one of the subsequent owners without incident). I replaced the low-volume tank from the 2008 model year with the LPE tank. I added Aviaid tank insert and windage tray. I also added the Katech high-capacity oil pump. Cavitation was a problem that I had zero intention of dealing with.

RetroGuy

"WET lubrication is always better than DRY, regarding engines and intimacy"

grinder11

Let me state up front that I have a built LS7 in my C5, and I'll also state it is a wet sump LS7. If I was younger, I'd convert it to dry sump. Why? Because a properly designed Dry Sump system holds all the cards over a properly designed Wet Sump system. Even if cavitation is never a problem with the wet sump, the dry sump holds two advantages the wet sump will never equal.

#1: In a windage challenged "Y" block, such as the LS engines, less oil in the crankcase means better bay to bay breathing.

#2: Perhaps most important in a racing engine, or one that is tracked, is the fact you've moved the oil reservoir away from the radiant heat source, i.e., the engine itself, and the oil temperature will be a bit lower as a consequence. Like food away from the stove or oven, it will be cooler than if left on the burner, or in the oven......

chuck dominick

Thanks guys for the replies. but specifically has anyone any knowledge of the OEM LS3/7 dry sump system being a bad choice? AND what about that mesh screen. If you're familiar with the tank then you know the screen. I'm thinking of eliminating it to allow for better oil flow.

And yes, I'm going with the Aviaid screen and tank insert.It seems to be an advantage with no downside.

3X2

Although the upgrade to a stock system is better, it is no where as good as, say, a Daily dry sump. You can get away with the Aviaid tank insert, Katech Blue pump, and Improved racing windage tray and crank scraper in most situations (don't run tracks like Daytona). A challenge to mount and plumb witha stock oil pan would be an aftermarket tank like a Peterson with a filter between scavenge out and the tank inlet. Plus lots of crankcase/tank venting with the intake sealed from oil ingestion.

Kingtal0n

The biggest problem with wet sump in V8 land I noticed is lack of monitoring crankcase pressure and setting the pressure properly to a specific range via testing.

When pressure goes above atmospheric 0.01psi+ crankcase pressure becomes a scalar (like inside a tire with a small hole) and there are a slew of resulting issues from this, to name some: oil seal leaking, oil contamination, ring flutter, formation of large oil droplets & excessive oil blowing into pcv baffles, early ring switching, accumulation of partially combusted hydrocarbon 'glue' within ring pack.

Oil starvation is a question of whether the pickup is submerged at all times and any air trapped, behavior of air or cavitation related. These stem from poor drainback, pump/pan/pickup design, and windage related issues. To put it another way, not all wet sump are equal. If you actually develop the pickup and draining oil situation properly, your particular wet sump may be superior to all other wet sumps- calling them collectively as "wet" does not properly color the issue, saying 'is wet sump good or bad' cannot answer that question.

turbosmokeshow

No matter your automotive struggles, rest assured that monitoring crankcase pressure will be your salvation.

Kingtal0n

It is simultaneously the most important aspect of oil system cleanliness, performance & the most underrated and unappreciated aspect of performance engines in the world