800rwhp Build
02-23-2018, 08:01 AM
#21
Pulley & Fuel
In addition, with the fuel do I need to just change out injectors to 80lbs. Right now I have 60lb injectors. I do have a single nozzle meth that I will make it a double after this weekend.
02-23-2018, 07:41 PM
#23
Don't need a cam but it will help. Heads don't have to be touched. TB doesn't need to be touched. Need fuel system and a smaller pulley is all you really need. It also depends on auto/manual and what A&A supercharger you have. T/Ti trim will make 800 no problem. The s/si trim will not and would need a large blower.
02-23-2018, 08:36 PM
#24
Team Owner
800rwhp of cylinder pressure is 800rwhp of cylinder pressure. Could make it slightly easier to tune, and easier to get there, but still have to spin the blower fast enough to move 800rwhp of air, and have 800rwhp of octane.
The following 2 users liked this post by Unreal:
Chiselchst (02-25-2018),
LSX228R (02-24-2018)
02-24-2018, 12:23 AM
#25
Le Mans Master
PD vs centri has a huge effect on getting to 800. One does it with ease, the other needs all the little tip/tricks/etc.
There are plenty of super basic 800+rwhp centri setups. Just need octane, enough fuel, and the right size pulley. Sure you can do a cam/heads/etc etc and spend a TON of money, but it is absolutely not needed.
Bone stock TB on my car, well over 1100rwhp. You are pushing air through it, not sucking like a PD. Not an issue and almost no gain.
There are plenty of super basic 800+rwhp centri setups. Just need octane, enough fuel, and the right size pulley. Sure you can do a cam/heads/etc etc and spend a TON of money, but it is absolutely not needed.
Bone stock TB on my car, well over 1100rwhp. You are pushing air through it, not sucking like a PD. Not an issue and almost no gain.
but i basically said the rest of that above: 1) that the centrifugals make their power in the upper RPMs, therefore netting a higher horsepower number because math
(e.g. 2 cars make 700lb-ft of torque... a Whipple car peaking at 5000, a Vortech peaking at 6000. as the curves fall off, 6500rpm leaves the PD car with 600tq & the centri at 650tq. the HP equation gives the 1st car a max of 743hp while the 2nd ends with 804hp.)
i've also said a couple times that supporting mods ain't required, but he'd be better off.
again, i never said a stock longblock LS3 can't make 800hp; i said there're different ways to do it & presented an argument that leans more towards the more expensive way.
02-24-2018, 08:31 AM
#27
Team Owner
02-25-2018, 01:33 AM
#28
Fuel pump
Will I have to replace my stock fuel pump for 700rwhp. I've been reading LS magazines that have said it should be fine but 700 is the max. Some of the big name builders stated that they have tested stock cams at over 1000+up with zero issues and went on record to say the could take more. So I don't see myself changing it out ever. But I'm still concerned about fueling.
02-25-2018, 07:52 AM
#29
Team Owner
Yes, fuel pump will need to be addressed, along with injectors.
Now the question asked if you have to replace your stock fuel pump, and the answer is no, you can leave it there and add a second with the ECS fuel kit. It adds an external pump and keeps the stock stuff untouched.
Now the question asked if you have to replace your stock fuel pump, and the answer is no, you can leave it there and add a second with the ECS fuel kit. It adds an external pump and keeps the stock stuff untouched.
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tobb14 (02-26-2018)
02-26-2018, 08:15 PM
#31
Le Mans Master
Just a quick one here all, when changing pulley is best to change for a larger lower pulley sense you can keep a larger top to stay away from belt slippage in my 402 GTO I use a 9 inch lower and a 4 inch top though not for every body sense power comes in early but a 8 inch lower is sweeet. 
02-26-2018, 08:42 PM
#32
Melting Slicks
[QUOTE=7SECONDS;1596643324All on a Stock LS3 Cam Only. It has been very reliable for the last 3 years.[/QUOTE]
1. One of the essential finishing touches of the engine in a forced induction build is the cam advertised duration. Much earlier IVO and longer, is worth around 20% reduction in boost/increase in power at the same boost, depending how high you rev the engine (if you shift at 5200rpm you won't be losing or gaining much from a cam swap as if you wanted 7200rpm instead). It can be a summit cam, lift is not essential as heavy valvetrain parts and stiff valve springs are unwanted in high mileage applications anyways.
2. Blowers use belt power, belt torque is removing from engine torque. If I have a rod and I twist it 10* on one end, then midway I twist it back 10* the other direction, the rest of my rod is straight with 0 torque because in nature forces have to balance to zero. Around 15-20% is common energy consumption for blowers. 750rwhp with 12-15% drivetrain loss and 20% blower use is really:
750 * (1.12) = 840
750 * (1.20) = 900
together: (90 + 150 + 750) = 990bhp
In a turbo application, the blower isn't absorbing that chunk of 150bhp, which reduces wear and tear. It will always win this part of the race...
02-26-2018, 09:40 PM
#33
Pro
Two things I would like to point out as thread topic is 800rwhp and does not specify induction nor practical application,
1. One of the essential finishing touches of the engine in a forced induction build is the cam advertised duration. Much earlier IVO and longer, is worth around 20% reduction in boost/increase in power at the same boost, depending how high you rev the engine (if you shift at 5200rpm you won't be losing or gaining much from a cam swap as if you wanted 7200rpm instead). It can be a summit cam, lift is not essential as heavy valvetrain parts and stiff valve springs are unwanted in high mileage applications anyways.
2. Blowers use belt power, belt torque is removing from engine torque. If I have a rod and I twist it 10* on one end, then midway I twist it back 10* the other direction, the rest of my rod is straight with 0 torque because in nature forces have to balance to zero. Around 15-20% is common energy consumption for blowers. 750rwhp with 12-15% drivetrain loss and 20% blower use is really:
750 * (1.12) = 840
750 * (1.20) = 900
together: (90 + 150 + 750) = 990bhp
In a turbo application, the blower isn't absorbing that chunk of 150bhp, which reduces wear and tear. It will always win this part of the race...
1. One of the essential finishing touches of the engine in a forced induction build is the cam advertised duration. Much earlier IVO and longer, is worth around 20% reduction in boost/increase in power at the same boost, depending how high you rev the engine (if you shift at 5200rpm you won't be losing or gaining much from a cam swap as if you wanted 7200rpm instead). It can be a summit cam, lift is not essential as heavy valvetrain parts and stiff valve springs are unwanted in high mileage applications anyways.
2. Blowers use belt power, belt torque is removing from engine torque. If I have a rod and I twist it 10* on one end, then midway I twist it back 10* the other direction, the rest of my rod is straight with 0 torque because in nature forces have to balance to zero. Around 15-20% is common energy consumption for blowers. 750rwhp with 12-15% drivetrain loss and 20% blower use is really:
750 * (1.12) = 840
750 * (1.20) = 900
together: (90 + 150 + 750) = 990bhp
In a turbo application, the blower isn't absorbing that chunk of 150bhp, which reduces wear and tear. It will always win this part of the race...
02-26-2018, 09:47 PM
#34
Pro
P.S. The car with the 640 RWHP had a Boost A Pump, 650 Injectors and a stock pump in tank. The 690 RWHP had 850 Injectors, Stock in tank pump and an ECS Stage 1 pump. My car has 850 injectors and the Fore Triple. It didn't have enough fuel with the Boost A Pump and 650 Injectors. This is why I say Fuel is the Key.
You can also see my whole build on this forum. It may also help you make a decision.
Supercharging my 2011 Base Model LS3 with a goal of 650RWHP
You can also see my whole build on this forum. It may also help you make a decision.
Supercharging my 2011 Base Model LS3 with a goal of 650RWHP
Last edited by 7SECONDS; 02-26-2018 at 09:59 PM.
02-26-2018, 10:20 PM
#35
Team Owner
Yes a cam can help but isnt needed. Most gains are from pulleying down after a cam. Say stock cam makes 15psi and 700rwhp. Put a cam in and now car sees 12psi at same blower speed making about 700. Then pulley down to make 15psi again and wah laa 800rwhp. Could you just have pullied down and made 800rwhp at 18+ psi, sure. People are affraid of boost so they like limit boost.
02-27-2018, 10:41 AM
#36
Melting Slicks
Yes a cam can help but isnt needed. Most gains are from pulleying down after a cam. Say stock cam makes 15psi and 700rwhp. Put a cam in and now car sees 12psi at same blower speed making about 700. Then pulley down to make 15psi again and wah laa 800rwhp. Could you just have pullied down and made 800rwhp at 18+ psi, sure. People are affraid of boost so they like limit boost.
What else have you done for 100hp? 100 shot of nitrous?
02-27-2018, 02:05 PM
#37
Safety Car
He definitely did not say a cam is worth a 100hp
02-27-2018, 05:07 PM
#38
Team Owner
Go back and reread it. Didn't even come close to saying that.
02-28-2018, 06:28 PM
#39
Melting Slicks
15psi @ 700 rwhp
then
15psi @ 800 rwhp
Same boost, +100 horsepower to the tires with the cam
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Which is actually low compared to what most OEM engines gain. On a 2004 5.3L engine going from stock cam to something 230~ @ .050 you can gain almost 200 horsepower at the same boost pressure, depends how many rpm risk.
