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~Im tired of burning out O2 sensors every 3 months. Help
never fails it always seems to happen every time when im at a big race weekend. im getting tired of it, there not cheap either.
09 Z06
TSP stage 2 cam
TSP longtubes and X pipe catless
B&b bullets
ive heard rumors that the TSP O2 bungs are not in ideal location, any truth to this?
could this cause the frequent burn outs (code is for H02S heater control circuit , P0030(bank 1) and P0050(bank2))
where is ideal?
pic of mine
or could it be something with the tune?
any other ideas? :help:
Last edited by STANG KILLA SS; 03-17-2018 at 08:11 PM.
found another code in a different area of my reader (called pending codes or something)
dont know if its current or not though.
P0174 System too Lean Bank 2
it is usually the passenger side that burns out (replaced 3 times)
this will be the first time the drivers side has also thrown the heater control circuit code
this code may have come up because i kept racing the car with the above 02 heater control circuit codes. ie couldnt get accurate air/fuel ratio from O2s so this may have happened after 02s went out? ie in accurate fuel mix. no way to know which caused what
Last edited by STANG KILLA SS; 03-17-2018 at 08:14 PM.
It can be a bitch to diagnose. Have you tested the circuit? What sensors are you using? Cheapo ones? Assuming your tune is good and you don't have a short, it's likely the cheap headers and/or cheap sensors doing this and the location of the bung. I have LG headers, no cats, road race my car heavily and have never once in history burned out an 02 sensor. In the long run it might be better to simply ditch those cheapo, Chinese made headers and go with ARH or LG and at least rule this out as the root cause. They are an improvement in all regards anyhow. When I see Texas Speed headers on a car I know someone cheaped out and will be dealing with issues. I refused to install them last year in my buddies C6. Told him to send those cheap POS things back and buy a quality header that fits and performs well. So he did and has had no issues with his ARH headers on the track - and he runs as hard as me.
No possible way I would deal with this every time I go out on the track. I would ditch those headers in favor of ARH or LG, install fresh, quality 02 sensors and re-tune. Even if it doesn't fix the issue (and I suspect it will), at a minimum you know you have made an improvement.
"test the circuit". what do you mean by that and how?
ive tried both bosch and denso sensors, i cant remember if ive tried NGK.
im about to try Denso rear sensors (supposably better heaters?)
not sure if ive tried the Bosch 13111 yet. (2000 vette rears, common for LT header use)
the tune was in the car when i got it. i THINK 21st century muscle cars did it. im looking at takeing the car to Pat G now. he did my camaro. would like my fans and temps at which car starts to pull timing changed anyway.
the LGs appear to have the 02s in the exact same position. about 6" after the pipes make there final turn to straight back parallel with the car.
i think money would be better spent possibly on jet hotting the headers. more heat retention inside the tubes, so my o2 heaters dont keep burning out working over time.
i dont mind paying up for quality on any of my builds if youve watched them. but i dont think the LGs would pay off and fix the problem in my case.
of course the other possibility is the headers nore the sensors are the issue. maybe the tune is off. what might be the tuning issue that would cause o2 heaters to keep burning out? a/f ratio or something else?
Last edited by STANG KILLA SS; 03-18-2018 at 12:44 PM.
If the tune is off you could be spiking EGTs and overheating the headers. Can happen if too lean or too rich. But there is usually other signs of this. Have you looked at or replaced your plugs recently? Does your car have any trouble starting when hot? Do you detect any misses? Do your headers glow red? Do you smell fuel? Do you know what your A/F is? Timing? How can you diagnose the issue if you don't know what the car is doing? What you are seeing is likely a symptom of something else.
Get the car tuned man. It should have been one of the first things you did after you bought and modified the car for track use anyhow. Don't rely on the last guys tune for a race car. That's like relying on the last guys brake pads. Verify/correct the tune and establish a base line. Then begin diagnosing issues (like shitty headers, cheap sensors etc).
no the car has been running nothing but flawless since ive owned it. it already had the cam, headers etc. havent had a single issues with any of those.
everything ive done to it has been oiling, cooling, braking, safety, etc.
only thing ive done to the car was fixing the valve guides. i did deck the heads .020 at the same time. thats the only thing ive done since that could possibly effect the tune.
ill get it tuned. for this weekends race though, when i replace the o2s. do you think header wraping the pipe 6" fore and aft of the o2s, and wraping the o2s themselves would help at all retain heat? as a temporary bandaid?
It is worth a shot. Hopefully it gets you through the weekend. I can't tell you how many times I patched something up just to run a full weekend.
Sucks to deal with crap like this.
Something is overheating and burning them out. May have to go through a process of elimination. (Tune, headers themselves, wiring/grounds etc). I hate diagnosing that way but sometimes there is no choice.
Milling the heads raises the compression and as a result the tune should be checked and likely adjusted. Additionally, I intentionally pull a little timing on my car on the big end of the rpm curve. For a road race car that has severe, sustained duty cycle it is a safer move. I am willing to give up 5-10hp for reliability.
Change your headers. The o2 placement isn't ideal.
I changed to ARH headers and didn't have an issue anymore. I spoke to a lot of people that were having the same problem and all were fixed by changing headers. My assumption is that the o2 are too far away causing the circuit to overload while trying to heat the sensors up.
I am selling my ARH 1-7/8" headers that are ceramic coated and include the 3" x-pipe with cats. Let me know if you're interested. You're pretty close to me, we can meet up.
Also, I recommend Aikman Performance in Cedar Park, Tx for a retune. I won't let anyone else tune my car and I've had one of the best , arguably, tune it before. Aikman did a better job and was way more transparent about what he was doing.
last night i wrapped my headers up to the 02 sensors. to try to keep the heat in the pipes to make the 02s heaters not working so hard.
wasnt terribly hard. about an hour.
and no wonder the tunnel and floor boards get hot. the driverside header sits 1/4" away from the tunnel pretty much the whole way. barely enough room to get wrap threw. no room in some spots.
should be a cheap/easy test/fix i hope.
my new 02s come in today.
my pass side O2 was blacker than the drivers side.
the pass side is the one that always burns out. however this time both burned out for the first time.
trace the wires and look for any damage. Make sure the wires are not touching the exhaust anywhere and wires aren't exposed to the elements. Verify you have the correct fuse size installed for the circuit. If the fuse pops it will generate the heater control circuit code.
If you have O2 extensions, I'd replace them and hope they were the culprit.
After the O2s are replaced, look at your trims and be sure the car is not lean.
trace the wires and look for any damage. Make sure the wires are not touching the exhaust anywhere and wires aren't exposed to the elements. Verify you have the correct fuse size installed for the circuit. If the fuse pops it will generate the heater control circuit code.
If you have O2 extensions, I'd replace them and hope they were the culprit.
After the O2s are replaced, look at your trims and be sure the car is not lean.
If you get the tune looked at. Log on the street not on the dyno. I had a lean condition after a dyno tune. Street tune by the same tuner solved the problem. Street tune is more real world
trace the wires and look for any damage. Make sure the wires are not touching the exhaust anywhere and wires aren't exposed to the elements. Verify you have the correct fuse size installed for the circuit. If the fuse pops it will generate the heater control circuit code.
If you have O2 extensions, I'd replace them and hope they were the culprit.
After the O2s are replaced, look at your trims and be sure the car is not lean.
I did find bad damage on the passenger side extension. burned all the way threw several wires insulation. exposed wires.
i electrical taped them for now. and protected them with foil for tommorrows race. just replaced both o2s but codes came back.
thanks for tip on fuse. ill check that.
sure e-dam-nough the fuse was burned out.
sadly its 11pm here and car is already in garage. wont know until morning if my tape up job is gonna get me threw race day tommorrow, and keep the codes at bay.
thank you so much for the tip! you might have just saved race day
Last edited by STANG KILLA SS; 03-24-2018 at 12:01 AM.
well after replacing the o2s last night and still getting the heater codes after clearing them, then last night replacing the fuse.
i raced all day with no issues. now im suspecting that the o2s were never bad. especially since for the first time ever i was getting heater codes for both sides.
i think my burned extension wires on the pass side were too blame, which poped the fuse.
which sucks cause i had to pull and all nighter, to include a 3 hour road trip to track down those two o2 sensors. NO one had them, no advanced auto, oriellys, autozone, or chevy dealerships within 4 cities had them. (everyone had rears)
03-17-2018, 07:45 PM
~Im tired of burning out O2 sensors every 3 months. Help
im getting tired of it, there not cheap either. 
