TR6 plugs Vs stock C6 ZO6 plugs questions please.
01-09-2019, 06:35 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
TR6 plugs Vs stock C6 ZO6 plugs questions please.
I have run NGK TR6s for several years now. With great results. Was changing exhaust gaskets, and cracked one of the TR6s. Local stores had to order the TR6s. So I put my factory plugs back in. Just to test drive and make sure. I had fixed the exhaust leak. Man My truck felt like a slug. Could the factory plugs be pulling timing? And killing my power. I have WCCH reworked for factory guide issues, and milled .015, plus BTR stage 3 cam, headers and tune. I will install the new TR6s tomorrow. Has anyone else experienced this problem before. Also I think THEY WERE GAPPED AT .035. Does that sound right. I did a search. And I got from .032 to .040 on the gap.
Last edited by bada; 01-09-2019 at 06:37 PM. Reason: .
01-13-2019, 11:08 PM
#2
Drifting
The TR6 is a colder plug than the stock plug. They should come pre gaped in that range. Sometimes you have to re gap if you are blowing out the plug.
01-13-2019, 11:14 PM
#3
Race Director
I have run NGK TR6s for several years now. With great results. Was changing exhaust gaskets, and cracked one of the TR6s. Local stores had to order the TR6s. So I put my factory plugs back in. Just to test drive and make sure. I had fixed the exhaust leak. Man My truck felt like a slug. Could the factory plugs be pulling timing? And killing my power. I have WCCH reworked for factory guide issues, and milled .015, plus BTR stage 3 cam, headers and tune. I will install the new TR6s tomorrow. Has anyone else experienced this problem before. Also I think THEY WERE GAPPED AT .035. Does that sound right. I did a search. And I got from .032 to .040 on the gap.
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CI GS (01-14-2019)
01-14-2019, 10:46 AM
#5
01-14-2019, 04:20 PM
#6
01-14-2019, 04:34 PM
#7
Race Director
Member Since: Mar 2011
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2021 C6 of the Year Finalist - Modified
I used TR6s in my turbo Buick motor running race gas and 19 PSI boost .... Had good results with them, but they won't last anywhere near as long as the OEM ACDelco Iridium LS9 plugs.
I now have TR6s in my supercharged LS3, but I may replace them with the LS9 Iridium (41-104) plugs later on.
I now have TR6s in my supercharged LS3, but I may replace them with the LS9 Iridium (41-104) plugs later on.
01-14-2019, 04:46 PM
#8
Le Mans Master
The plugs that come stock in an LS7 are the same plugs that come stock in an LS9. They are a colder plug than what comes in an LS3. They are the same heat range as a TR6. TR6's are a cheap throw away plug. If you're changing plugs often, maybe they will have value for you. I'd rather use a better plug that I don't have to worry about watching closely. Pull them out after 75K miles and they still look perfect. I've had problems with TR6 plugs in the past. I won't use them under any circumstances.
01-14-2019, 05:06 PM
#9
The factory Z06/ZR1 plugs are AC- Delco 41-104 Iridium plugs, which come factory gapped at .040". Most, if not all, Iridium plugs have a wider heat range than a conventional copper plug, reportedly due to the much smaller but stronger iridium electrode's ability to manage heat better. The 41-104 plugs are equivalent to a NGK - 6 heat range and are designed and warrantied by GM to last for 100,000 miles. They have been tested and proven, by many competent tuners, even on supercharged and nitrous applications and are a superior plug to the cheaper conventional NGK TR6 copper plug, which are decent plugs, but simply do not idle or last as long as the fine-wire Iridium plug. If you search on here, you will also see that some folks have experienced a "Service Active Handling" message from using TR-6 plugs in C6s as well. I've been through probably hundreds of TR6s over the years - used them back in the day in my LS1 Camaro and other vehicles and they were pretty much the staple plug to sue in a street/strip LS1 powered vehicle back then. But, in recent times I've used the 41-104s in my Vette at up to 12 psi, and in a built Gen 5 Camaro with a 175hp shot of nitrous, and I have never seen a hint of misfire or KR from these plugs. So, yes, they are a better plug than the TR-6.
IDK what the OP's particular problem is, but its not that the stock Z06 plug is a lower performing plug than the TR6. If it is the plugs, maybe they're just older and/or fouled/damaged or contaminated in some way?
IDK what the OP's particular problem is, but its not that the stock Z06 plug is a lower performing plug than the TR6. If it is the plugs, maybe they're just older and/or fouled/damaged or contaminated in some way?
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old motorhead (01-14-2019)
01-14-2019, 06:49 PM
#10
Racer
Thread Starter
The factory Z06/ZR1 plugs are AC- Delco 41-104 Iridium plugs, which come factory gapped at .040". Most, if not all, Iridium plugs have a wider heat range than a conventional copper plug, reportedly due to the much smaller but stronger iridium electrode's ability to manage heat better. The 41-104 plugs are equivalent to a NGK - 6 heat range and are designed and warrantied by GM to last for 100,000 miles. They have been tested and proven, by many competent tuners, even on supercharged and nitrous applications and are a superior plug to the cheaper conventional NGK TR6 copper plug, which are decent plugs, but simply do not idle or last as long as the fine-wire Iridium plug. If you search on here, you will also see that some folks have experienced a "Service Active Handling" message from using TR-6 plugs in C6s as well. I've been through probably hundreds of TR6s over the years - used them back in the day in my LS1 Camaro and other vehicles and they were pretty much the staple plug to sue in a street/strip LS1 powered vehicle back then. But, in recent times I've used the 41-104s in my Vette at up to 12 psi, and in a built Gen 5 Camaro with a 175hp shot of nitrous, and I have never seen a hint of misfire or KR from these plugs. So, yes, they are a better plug than the TR-6.
IDK what the OP's particular problem is, but its not that the stock Z06 plug is a lower performing plug than the TR6. If it is the plugs, maybe they're just older and/or fouled/damaged or contaminated in some way?
IDK what the OP's particular problem is, but its not that the stock Z06 plug is a lower performing plug than the TR6. If it is the plugs, maybe they're just older and/or fouled/damaged or contaminated in some way?
Last edited by bada; 01-14-2019 at 07:26 PM. Reason: .
01-15-2019, 07:44 AM
#11
Safety Car
Some bad info in here. The NGK TR6 plugs are copper and outperform the stock Iridium plugs in every way except longevity. Copper conducts better and dissipates heat faster than Iridium.
01-15-2019, 09:02 AM
#12
Bad info?? Copper outperforms Iridium in every way except longevity? I guess that’s why all those big turbo guys use Denso Iridium plugs on their 2,000+ hp turbo motors? Copper plugs DO NOT dissipate heat better than Iridium plugs. That’s a myth promoted by traditionalists who will probably also tell you that carburetors are better than fuel injection.
Yes, copper, as a metal, has better conductivity than Iridium, but that is not the be all and end all of spark plug design. In fact, most, if not all of the performance plugs on the market, including the “Iridium” ones, have copper cores. The Iridium plugs simply have a center electrode made of Iridium, which because of its extreme hardness, can be much, much smaller than a copper electrode without melting like a candle wick under extreme cylinder pressures. In fact, it takes significantly less voltage to fire an Iridium plug than any copper plug, because the center electrode is smaller, and it also sheds heat quicker than a copper center electrode. Don’t take my word for it, contact any of the reputable shops that build high horsepower FI motors and ask them if they’ve tested Iridium plugs, and if so, what they found.
Apologies to the OP for the hijack...
Yes, copper, as a metal, has better conductivity than Iridium, but that is not the be all and end all of spark plug design. In fact, most, if not all of the performance plugs on the market, including the “Iridium” ones, have copper cores. The Iridium plugs simply have a center electrode made of Iridium, which because of its extreme hardness, can be much, much smaller than a copper electrode without melting like a candle wick under extreme cylinder pressures. In fact, it takes significantly less voltage to fire an Iridium plug than any copper plug, because the center electrode is smaller, and it also sheds heat quicker than a copper center electrode. Don’t take my word for it, contact any of the reputable shops that build high horsepower FI motors and ask them if they’ve tested Iridium plugs, and if so, what they found.
Apologies to the OP for the hijack...
Last edited by CI GS; 01-15-2019 at 10:03 AM.
01-15-2019, 10:38 AM
#13
Racer
Thread Starter
Bad info?? Copper outperforms Iridium in every way except longevity? I guess that’s why all those big turbo guys use Denso Iridium plugs on their 2,000+ hp turbo motors? Copper plugs DO NOT dissipate heat better than Iridium plugs. That’s a myth promoted by traditionalists who will probably also tell you that carburetors are better than fuel injection.
Yes, copper, as a metal, has better conductivity than Iridium, but that is not the be all and end all of spark plug design. In fact, most, if not all of the performance plugs on the market, including the “Iridium” ones, have copper cores. The Iridium plugs simply have a center electrode made of Iridium, which because of its extreme hardness, can be much, much smaller than a copper electrode without melting like a candle wick under extreme cylinder pressures. In fact, it takes significantly less voltage to fire an Iridium plug than any copper plug, because the center electrode is smaller, and it also sheds heat quicker than a copper center electrode. Don’t take my word for it, contact any of the reputable shops that build high horsepower FI motors and ask them if they’ve tested Iridium plugs, and if so, what they found.
Apologies to the OP for the hijack...
Yes, copper, as a metal, has better conductivity than Iridium, but that is not the be all and end all of spark plug design. In fact, most, if not all of the performance plugs on the market, including the “Iridium” ones, have copper cores. The Iridium plugs simply have a center electrode made of Iridium, which because of its extreme hardness, can be much, much smaller than a copper electrode without melting like a candle wick under extreme cylinder pressures. In fact, it takes significantly less voltage to fire an Iridium plug than any copper plug, because the center electrode is smaller, and it also sheds heat quicker than a copper center electrode. Don’t take my word for it, contact any of the reputable shops that build high horsepower FI motors and ask them if they’ve tested Iridium plugs, and if so, what they found.
Apologies to the OP for the hijack...
01-15-2019, 11:03 AM
#14
Le Mans Master
Just about the same thing happened to me....only in reverse. I pulled out Delco irridiums and replaced them with new TR6's. My supercharged truck ran like crap. I thought I must have done something wrong like getting some never seize on on electrode or cracking an insulator, or plug wire going bad, etc. Pulled them out, inspected everything, and reinstalled. Same crappy running rig. Put the old plugs back in and it ran perfect. Go figure. I threw the TR6's in the dumpster and never bought another one. I've got nothing against NGK. Just don't feel like their TR6 plug is a good option. I did run TR7ix's for a while in my supercharged Grand Sport. They were fine.
01-15-2019, 11:08 AM
#15
That has me puzzled too, to be honest. Were they in fact the original 41-104 plugs? Maybe they were fouled or glazed over or something? If you can, post a decent HD picture of the “business end” of the plugs.
01-15-2019, 03:29 PM
#17
I’ve run the Denso fine wires in everything from my truck to a 16.5:1 compression 565 BBC, to a 10,400RPM Mercury Drag outboard, and they’ve worked flawlessly. That’s also what I have in my Vette now (in a #7 heat range) and they perform flawlessly too. But, I ran the AC Delco 41-104s for a while in my car @12psi of boost, without meth, with no KR, and to tell you the truth, I swear my car idled better with them than with the Densos, perhaps due to the colder heat range of the latter.
I can’t speak for others, just trying to share what experience I have.
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Buddy A (01-15-2019),
miami993c297 (10-16-2023)
01-15-2019, 06:34 PM
#18
Racer
Thread Starter
That is what I was thinking also. I have been racing and had fast cars since, the mid 1960s. But this new tech has me baffled.
Last edited by bada; 01-15-2019 at 06:56 PM. Reason: .
01-15-2019, 06:54 PM
#19
Racer
Thread Starter
I have the old original, factory 41-104s. That came new in the motor.Plus I bought a new set of the A/C delco 41-104 plugs. The new 41-104s are what I put in it, last week. But when we put a cam in the motor. My tuner switched over to the TR6s. However I have had 3 different cams in this motor. The stock LS7, a BTR Stage III, and a custom grind just for my combo, for the auto tranny. Cam Motion did the custom grind.
But with all that being said. It has been running fine. Since the last tune & old TR6s. The only change was going from TR6s to 41-104s. Now I have not tried, the old set of 41-104s. That came in the motor new. But my first tune 8 years ago was with the 41-104s. And that was with only headers, attack filter,and stock LS7 cam and tune. And it ran fine with the 41-104s. But with the LAST TWO CAMS. It was tuned with TR6s.
The only reason I went back to the 41-104s. Was I was going over everything, During the winter. Just general oil change, fluids changed. So I thought. Why not put fresh plugs in it. And knowing. I had already run 41-104s. For several years, And they are supposed to last longer. I put those in.
And that is when I felt a big loss of power.
SO I AM REALLY STUMPED AS TO WHY> WITH ONLY A PLUG CHANGE. It ran Like crap.
Here is a picture of the cowl hood and the headers we built. So you can see how I draw air from the rear with limited space.
Last edited by bada; 01-15-2019 at 07:00 PM. Reason: ..
01-17-2019, 09:24 AM
#20
Drifting
The plugs that come stock in an LS7 are the same plugs that come stock in an LS9. They are a colder plug than what comes in an LS3. They are the same heat range as a TR6. TR6's are a cheap throw away plug. If you're changing plugs often, maybe they will have value for you. I'd rather use a better plug that I don't have to worry about watching closely. Pull them out after 75K miles and they still look perfect. I've had problems with TR6 plugs in the past. I won't use them under any circumstances.
The factory Z06/ZR1 plugs are AC- Delco 41-104 Iridium plugs, which come factory gapped at .040". Most, if not all, Iridium plugs have a wider heat range than a conventional copper plug, reportedly due to the much smaller but stronger iridium electrode's ability to manage heat better. The 41-104 plugs are equivalent to a NGK - 6 heat range and are designed and warrantied by GM to last for 100,000 miles. They have been tested and proven, by many competent tuners, even on supercharged and nitrous applications and are a superior plug to the cheaper conventional NGK TR6 copper plug, which are decent plugs, but simply do not idle or last as long as the fine-wire Iridium plug. If you search on here, you will also see that some folks have experienced a "Service Active Handling" message from using TR-6 plugs in C6s as well. I've been through probably hundreds of TR6s over the years - used them back in the day in my LS1 Camaro and other vehicles and they were pretty much the staple plug to sue in a street/strip LS1 powered vehicle back then. But, in recent times I've used the 41-104s in my Vette at up to 12 psi, and in a built Gen 5 Camaro with a 175hp shot of nitrous, and I have never seen a hint of misfire or KR from these plugs. So, yes, they are a better plug than the TR-6.
IDK what the OP's particular problem is, but its not that the stock Z06 plug is a lower performing plug than the TR6. If it is the plugs, maybe they're just older and/or fouled/damaged or contaminated in some way?
IDK what the OP's particular problem is, but its not that the stock Z06 plug is a lower performing plug than the TR6. If it is the plugs, maybe they're just older and/or fouled/damaged or contaminated in some way?
Bad info?? Copper outperforms Iridium in every way except longevity? I guess that’s why all those big turbo guys use Denso Iridium plugs on their 2,000+ hp turbo motors? Copper plugs DO NOT dissipate heat better than Iridium plugs. That’s a myth promoted by traditionalists who will probably also tell you that carburetors are better than fuel injection.
Yes, copper, as a metal, has better conductivity than Iridium, but that is not the be all and end all of spark plug design. In fact, most, if not all of the performance plugs on the market, including the “Iridium” ones, have copper cores. The Iridium plugs simply have a center electrode made of Iridium, which because of its extreme hardness, can be much, much smaller than a copper electrode without melting like a candle wick under extreme cylinder pressures. In fact, it takes significantly less voltage to fire an Iridium plug than any copper plug, because the center electrode is smaller, and it also sheds heat quicker than a copper center electrode. Don’t take my word for it, contact any of the reputable shops that build high horsepower FI motors and ask them if they’ve tested Iridium plugs, and if so, what they found.
Apologies to the OP for the hijack...
Yes, copper, as a metal, has better conductivity than Iridium, but that is not the be all and end all of spark plug design. In fact, most, if not all of the performance plugs on the market, including the “Iridium” ones, have copper cores. The Iridium plugs simply have a center electrode made of Iridium, which because of its extreme hardness, can be much, much smaller than a copper electrode without melting like a candle wick under extreme cylinder pressures. In fact, it takes significantly less voltage to fire an Iridium plug than any copper plug, because the center electrode is smaller, and it also sheds heat quicker than a copper center electrode. Don’t take my word for it, contact any of the reputable shops that build high horsepower FI motors and ask them if they’ve tested Iridium plugs, and if so, what they found.
Apologies to the OP for the hijack...
To the OP, there should be no reason why switching back to stock plugs would make the car run poorly. Unless air gap is wayyyyy out of check.
Last edited by 9T3VETTE; 01-17-2019 at 09:26 AM.