Tuning a stock car, worth it?
02-15-2019, 10:54 AM
#21
Of course there are software power limits given the general nature of the question. There is a great deal of software in these cars. One can argue that traction and stability control is a type of software power limit. Redline cut is a form of software power limit. Timing adjustments based on conditions could be argued the same. What's underlying your concern about power limits?
I know of European cars that are significantly power limited in first and second gear (torque limited to be more specific). After a tune they can still end up with the same limits, which means the tune only does something when you hit third gear. If that's your concern I don't see anything like this going on in the C6 M6 cars.
I know of European cars that are significantly power limited in first and second gear (torque limited to be more specific). After a tune they can still end up with the same limits, which means the tune only does something when you hit third gear. If that's your concern I don't see anything like this going on in the C6 M6 cars.
Sure, I'll be more specific. I read through the grapevine of threads out there that HP and or TQ is limited to 380 in first and second gears. True or no?
Last edited by KingCorvette93; 02-15-2019 at 10:55 AM.
02-15-2019, 12:45 PM
#22
The previous owner of my 2008 Base model had the car dyno tuned with only a CAI. He said it gained 40hp. While I have no way to verify that, I drove 3 2008 base models and 1 2007 ZO6 before purchasing this car and this car felt closer to the Z06 than the other base models. He also had the CAGS (Skip shift) disabled in the tune which I love (I consider the skip shift to be dangerous and also eliminated in when I owned my 94 Firebird Formula M6).
02-15-2019, 06:57 PM
#23
Hopefully one of the tuners will respond to provide a definitive answer. Or give them a call. Normally this sort of limit is expressed as a torque limit vs horsepower. I’d also expect it to be more related to automatic transmission cars. If it’s happening on the M6 I certainly can’t feel it.
02-15-2019, 07:01 PM
#24
The previous owner of my 2008 Base model had the car dyno tuned with only a CAI. He said it gained 40hp. While I have no way to verify that, I drove 3 2008 base models and 1 2007 ZO6 before purchasing this car and this car felt closer to the Z06 than the other base models. He also had the CAGS (Skip shift) disabled in the tune which I love (I consider the skip shift to be dangerous and also eliminated in when I owned my 94 Firebird Formula M6).
02-16-2019, 01:39 PM
#25
Hopefully one of the tuners will respond to provide a definitive answer. Or give them a call. Normally this sort of limit is expressed as a torque limit vs horsepower. I’d also expect it to be more related to automatic transmission cars. If it’s happening on the M6 I certainly can’t feel it.
Let's see what tuners say! I sent an email to one.
02-16-2019, 02:00 PM
#26
ps I have a DiabloSport Intune i2 if you are interested as I no longer need it with the full tune.
02-16-2019, 03:23 PM
#27
So if you want to hold instant powder back per gears, then that would be done in the TM max torque RPM verse gear tables. If you want to hold power back via throttle, then that would be done in ETC tps max limit tables.
As for tune, all the Torque management limits are raised so the engine is allows to put max instant torque/power to the wheels at any given time (engine de-hobbled), and why the seat of pants feeling is increased so much with a tune, although you may only be picking up 15hp isntead.
The second part of a good tune is throttle mapping. Hence when you have your foot half way down on the throttle pedal with the stock tune, the Throttle body is not opened 50%, but only about 15% open instead. Its not until you have the throttle pedal down about 80%, that the TB vain starts to open up to about 80% isntead.
As for throttle pedal to TB vain linear in their rates, mapping such would have the car almost un-drivable.
So stock maps in green and purple depending on what mode the car is in, and somewhere around red is the target for the new mapping, depending on the drivers skill level.
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06Rawpower (04-25-2019)
02-16-2019, 04:37 PM
#28
My set up 08 base (CAI, headers,TRX plugs, wires, tune), put down 412 RWHP, a bit more than a seat of the pants feeling HAHA
Its a good base start for me, and I would say others just wanting a bit more performance. Now I can work on the driver MOD because the car is better than most peoples driving skills.
Good Luck with your decision!
Its a good base start for me, and I would say others just wanting a bit more performance. Now I can work on the driver MOD because the car is better than most peoples driving skills.
Good Luck with your decision!
02-16-2019, 07:23 PM
#29
Melting Slicks
I had my stock LS3 tuned twice. The first was in conjunction with an install of a Vararam intake. Dyno'd at 411hp at the wheels with the intake. I like the intake and definitely got a seat-of-the-pants kick from it - especially at speed where the ram air design was most effective. However, I got a bit worried about the whole water ingestion issue, particularly after getting stuck in a couple of heavy downpours that created some big puddles and subsequently some relatively dangerous evasive maneuvers. I decided ultimately the risk wasn't worth the gain even if it is a very rare occurrence. So I had the intake removed, the stock shroud put back in, and had the car re-tuned. I lost a few HP and some TQ, but still ended up with 404 hp at the wheels on an otherwise stock LS3. Traction continues to be the limiting factor even at this modest HP level. I had the CAGS tuned out as well. In the first tune the guy increased the idle RPM a bit and had the fans turn on a lot earlier, which I didn't like so I had him put both the idle and the fan temp parameters back to stock since I wasn't going crazy with any other mods and the things runs so cool anyway.
Overall I'm happy I did it.
Overall I'm happy I did it.
03-26-2019, 11:23 PM
#30
Former Vendor
Member Since: Nov 2005
Location: Ossining New York
Posts: 11,792
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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
Very interesting.... That looks just like my ad.......
Yes, TM can be adjusted via max to drive line for over all limits, max per gear/rms, and even TB/ECT.
So if you want to hold instant powder back per gears, then that would be done in the TM max torque RPM verse gear tables. If you want to hold power back via throttle, then that would be done in ETC tps max limit tables.
As for tune, all the Torque management limits are raised so the engine is allows to put max instant torque/power to the wheels at any given time (engine de-hobbled), and why the seat of pants feeling is increased so much with a tune, although you may only be picking up 15hp isntead.
The second part of a good tune is throttle mapping. Hence when you have your foot half way down on the throttle pedal with the stock tune, the Throttle body is not opened 50%, but only about 15% open instead. Its not until you have the throttle pedal down about 80%, that the TB vain starts to open up to about 80% isntead.
As for throttle pedal to TB vain linear in their rates, mapping such would have the car almost un-drivable.
So stock maps in green and purple depending on what mode the car is in, and somewhere around red is the target for the new mapping, depending on the drivers skill level.
So if you want to hold instant powder back per gears, then that would be done in the TM max torque RPM verse gear tables. If you want to hold power back via throttle, then that would be done in ETC tps max limit tables.
As for tune, all the Torque management limits are raised so the engine is allows to put max instant torque/power to the wheels at any given time (engine de-hobbled), and why the seat of pants feeling is increased so much with a tune, although you may only be picking up 15hp isntead.
The second part of a good tune is throttle mapping. Hence when you have your foot half way down on the throttle pedal with the stock tune, the Throttle body is not opened 50%, but only about 15% open instead. Its not until you have the throttle pedal down about 80%, that the TB vain starts to open up to about 80% isntead.
As for throttle pedal to TB vain linear in their rates, mapping such would have the car almost un-drivable.
So stock maps in green and purple depending on what mode the car is in, and somewhere around red is the target for the new mapping, depending on the drivers skill level.
So, back to the OPs topic...... Is it worth tuning a stock car???
Actually, it's the smartest thing you can do. Doddar for Dollar.... Pound for pound..... NOTHING beats a good tune and CoW BOOSTER! on a stock car.
People cry that you have to have Mods to make it worth it.... That's a relative thing.
If you want to spend close to grand on headers, intake, and exhaust..... AND THEN GET A TUNE TO WRAP IT ALL UP...... That's well and good.
HOWEVER, if you have a totally (or near) stock car..... A good tune and CoW BOOSTER! is a fraction of the cost and dollar for dollar, you'll get way more
out of a tune and CoW BOOSTER! on a totally stock (or near stock) car for not a lot of bread..... Futhermore, if you chose to add mods later.....
Chuck CoW will re-tune your car totally free!
There's MANY reasons to tune a stock car....
Chuck CoW
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JerriVette (04-27-2019)
04-25-2019, 07:55 AM
#31
Instructor
Yes a tune will help. Consider adding a CAI and tune from Diablo. I started with a 93 octane tune and turned off torque management and speed limiters. The throttle response and driveability where greatly improved. After I added headers, I then went with the Full Tune from 21st Century. More improvements in throttle response, power and trans shifting.
ps I have a DiabloSport Intune i2 if you are interested as I no longer need it with the full tune.
ps I have a DiabloSport Intune i2 if you are interested as I no longer need it with the full tune.
04-25-2019, 08:15 AM
#32
Instructor
Very interesting.... That looks just like my ad.......
So, back to the OPs topic...... Is it worth tuning a stock car???
Actually, it's the smartest thing you can do. Doddar for Dollar.... Pound for pound..... NOTHING beats a good tune and CoW BOOSTER! on a stock car.
People cry that you have to have Mods to make it worth it.... That's a relative thing.
If you want to spend close to grand on headers, intake, and exhaust..... AND THEN GET A TUNE TO WRAP IT ALL UP...... That's well and good.
HOWEVER, if you have a totally (or near) stock car..... A good tune and CoW BOOSTER! is a fraction of the cost and dollar for dollar, you'll get way more
out of a tune and CoW BOOSTER! on a totally stock (or near stock) car for not a lot of bread..... Futhermore, if you chose to add mods later.....
Chuck CoW will re-tune your car totally free!
There's MANY reasons to tune a stock car....
Chuck CoW
So, back to the OPs topic...... Is it worth tuning a stock car???
Actually, it's the smartest thing you can do. Doddar for Dollar.... Pound for pound..... NOTHING beats a good tune and CoW BOOSTER! on a stock car.
People cry that you have to have Mods to make it worth it.... That's a relative thing.
If you want to spend close to grand on headers, intake, and exhaust..... AND THEN GET A TUNE TO WRAP IT ALL UP...... That's well and good.
HOWEVER, if you have a totally (or near) stock car..... A good tune and CoW BOOSTER! is a fraction of the cost and dollar for dollar, you'll get way more
out of a tune and CoW BOOSTER! on a totally stock (or near stock) car for not a lot of bread..... Futhermore, if you chose to add mods later.....
Chuck CoW will re-tune your car totally free!
There's MANY reasons to tune a stock car....
Chuck CoW
Thanks!
Last edited by 06Rawpower; 04-25-2019 at 08:16 AM.
04-25-2019, 10:11 AM
#33
loaded into the module, so just plug in down load your stock tune and then upload the 93 octane tune. I did not want to mess with sending Data files back and forth to someone even though I am computer literate. I also was not interested in removing ecm - pcm or otherwise. That’s also is why I eventually chose to pay someone local for a dyno tune once I upped my mods with headers. Lmk if your interested in the intune, I’ll make you a deal. Good luck!
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06Rawpower (04-27-2019)
04-25-2019, 10:14 AM
#34
To find a local tuner, do a search under tech performance, or regional. Average cost is about $500 at least in Dfw.
Ps you can buy a cags skip shift eliminator and they are Easy to install.
Ps you can buy a cags skip shift eliminator and they are Easy to install.
Last edited by sfrank2886; 04-25-2019 at 10:16 AM.
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06Rawpower (04-25-2019)
04-25-2019, 03:45 PM
#35
Former Vendor
Member Since: Nov 2005
Location: Ossining New York
Posts: 11,792
Received 243 Likes
on
183 Posts
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
To answer your question....
How do I go about finding a reputable tuner in my area? What’s the reasonable cost for a tune? I have a stock 2006 C6 Z51 LS2 that I’ve owned for going on 3 years. I definitely want to get rid of the shift lockout in the manual 6 speed but also make the most out of the stock engine horsepower/torque, at least at this point in time. I take it, going to a Chevrolet dealer for a tune is not the answer... Thanks!
Thanks!To answer your question.... No, you do not need a laptop, however you will need a windows pcm (desktops are fine) or a mac running the windows os
to operate the software. The AutoCal device can operate in the vehicle by itself without a laptop attached in stand alone mode.
Hand held tuners pre loaded with tunes are most frequently junk and very generic. If you're of the "save 25% money even if it means getting 50% less performance"
they those devices are what you are looking for.
If you want the absolute BEST product out there with a perfectly customized tune, awesome tool, low temp thermostat, and the incredible CoW BOOSTER!
then I would call me at 914-332-0049 so I can answer any questions you might have.
Read the reviews before you make a decision.
Last edited by Chuck CoW; 04-25-2019 at 03:46 PM.
04-25-2019, 06:31 PM
#36
Instructor
To answer your question.... No, you do not need a laptop, however you will need a windows pcm (desktops are fine) or a mac running the windows os
to operate the software. The AutoCal device can operate in the vehicle by itself without a laptop attached in stand alone mode.
Hand held tuners pre loaded with tunes are most frequently junk and very generic. If you're of the "save 25% money even if it means getting 50% less performance"
they those devices are what you are looking for.
If you want the absolute BEST product out there with a perfectly customized tune, awesome tool, low temp thermostat, and the incredible CoW BOOSTER!
then I would call me at 914-332-0049 so I can answer any questions you might have.
Read the reviews before you make a decision.
Chuck CoW
to operate the software. The AutoCal device can operate in the vehicle by itself without a laptop attached in stand alone mode.
Hand held tuners pre loaded with tunes are most frequently junk and very generic. If you're of the "save 25% money even if it means getting 50% less performance"
they those devices are what you are looking for.
If you want the absolute BEST product out there with a perfectly customized tune, awesome tool, low temp thermostat, and the incredible CoW BOOSTER!
then I would call me at 914-332-0049 so I can answer any questions you might have.
Read the reviews before you make a decision.
Chuck CoW
Definitely something to think about with everything you’ve said and the video you posted. 
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Chuck CoW (04-26-2019)
04-27-2019, 07:15 AM
#37
Just my .02 I would use a local tuner someone you can talk to meet with and go over what you want and if there is a problem later on or you want to do more they only charge about 60 or 100 bucks for a retune .. just my opinion
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06Rawpower (04-27-2019)
04-27-2019, 07:39 AM
#38
Race Director
Based off the original posters car and comments...
get the autocal, a air intake amd the cow booster.
im running a near stock LS3 2008 c6 z51 M6 with these mods for many years now..the car is a blast..
what you are looking for in your 190 mph corvette that accelerates to sixty mph in 4 seconds is exactly what the COW booster does.
its two hundred dollars and installs in 10 minutes...
my advice is contact Chuck...at corvettes of westchester order the autocal...order a cold air intake, order the COW booster and you will be very happy...
i have owned this corvette since new. I have put 132k reliable miles...its my daily driver...i love this car...
its reactive to my every input on the accelerator..lthe cars a blast...its alive...the cow booster makes the acceleratir intuative to driver commands...
what you are experiencing in my opinion is the dumbed down throttle response gm builds into corvettes so shoppers who normally drive malibus dont inadvertently access the 436 hp of the c6 too soon...
the cow booster is the best way to get rid of that dumbed down throttle response from tje factory.
i strongly recommend cow booster, auto cal tune from COW and a air filter
you end up with a reliable quick really exciting and fun car to drive capable of lasting forever.
Pm me if you want to speak on the phone about any of these mods and having a reactive intutative quick fun reliable daily driver...
get the autocal, a air intake amd the cow booster.
im running a near stock LS3 2008 c6 z51 M6 with these mods for many years now..the car is a blast..
what you are looking for in your 190 mph corvette that accelerates to sixty mph in 4 seconds is exactly what the COW booster does.
its two hundred dollars and installs in 10 minutes...
my advice is contact Chuck...at corvettes of westchester order the autocal...order a cold air intake, order the COW booster and you will be very happy...
i have owned this corvette since new. I have put 132k reliable miles...its my daily driver...i love this car...
its reactive to my every input on the accelerator..lthe cars a blast...its alive...the cow booster makes the acceleratir intuative to driver commands...
what you are experiencing in my opinion is the dumbed down throttle response gm builds into corvettes so shoppers who normally drive malibus dont inadvertently access the 436 hp of the c6 too soon...
the cow booster is the best way to get rid of that dumbed down throttle response from tje factory.
i strongly recommend cow booster, auto cal tune from COW and a air filter
you end up with a reliable quick really exciting and fun car to drive capable of lasting forever.
Pm me if you want to speak on the phone about any of these mods and having a reactive intutative quick fun reliable daily driver...
The following users liked this post:
Chuck CoW (04-27-2019)
The following users liked this post:
06Rawpower (04-27-2019)
04-27-2019, 09:02 AM
#40
Instructor
Based off the original posters car and comments...
get the autocal, a air intake amd the cow booster.
im running a near stock LS3 2008 c6 z51 M6 with these mods for many years now..the car is a blast..
what you are looking for in your 190 mph corvette that accelerates to sixty mph in 4 seconds is exactly what the COW booster does.
its two hundred dollars and installs in 10 minutes...
my advice is contact Chuck...at corvettes of westchester order the autocal...order a cold air intake, order the COW booster and you will be very happy...
i have owned this corvette since new. I have put 132k reliable miles...its my daily driver...i love this car...
its reactive to my every input on the accelerator..lthe cars a blast...its alive...the cow booster makes the acceleratir intuative to driver commands...
what you are experiencing in my opinion is the dumbed down throttle response gm builds into corvettes so shoppers who normally drive malibus dont inadvertently access the 436 hp of the c6 too soon...
the cow booster is the best way to get rid of that dumbed down throttle response from tje factory.
i strongly recommend cow booster, auto cal tune from COW and a air filter
you end up with a reliable quick really exciting and fun car to drive capable of lasting forever.
Pm me if you want to speak on the phone about any of these mods and having a reactive intutative quick fun reliable daily driver...
get the autocal, a air intake amd the cow booster.
im running a near stock LS3 2008 c6 z51 M6 with these mods for many years now..the car is a blast..
what you are looking for in your 190 mph corvette that accelerates to sixty mph in 4 seconds is exactly what the COW booster does.
its two hundred dollars and installs in 10 minutes...
my advice is contact Chuck...at corvettes of westchester order the autocal...order a cold air intake, order the COW booster and you will be very happy...
i have owned this corvette since new. I have put 132k reliable miles...its my daily driver...i love this car...
its reactive to my every input on the accelerator..lthe cars a blast...its alive...the cow booster makes the acceleratir intuative to driver commands...
what you are experiencing in my opinion is the dumbed down throttle response gm builds into corvettes so shoppers who normally drive malibus dont inadvertently access the 436 hp of the c6 too soon...
the cow booster is the best way to get rid of that dumbed down throttle response from tje factory.
i strongly recommend cow booster, auto cal tune from COW and a air filter
you end up with a reliable quick really exciting and fun car to drive capable of lasting forever.
Pm me if you want to speak on the phone about any of these mods and having a reactive intutative quick fun reliable daily driver...