[Z06] Z06 9th out of 10 per MotorTrend Test
04-28-2007, 10:50 PM
#81
Drifting
I would suspect that if most of us thought about it, we would recognize that (1) speed (2) acceleration (3) track lap times (4) autocross times, (5) G force rates, and (6) "subjective handling" are all different factors (among others) in any car's performance characteristics. Since 99+% of car magazine readers are NOT race car drivers and 99+% of street cars are NOT raced, then it's fair to say that "handling" is about how a car feels whether in "everyday" driving situations, or in street "pushing it" situations, or in "going like hell" street driving. Back in 1971 I had a 64 Austin Healey 3000 that I was driving one day on curving Maryland rural roads and I was having to push it real hard to keep ahead of a 45 foot long cement hauler behind me. I had an 84 Jaguar V12 XJS (with wire wheels) that felt almost dangerous at 45 mph on a posted 45 mph curve. Either one of those cars probably would go a lot quicker than my 74 Chevy Impala on a road course, but I never felt uncomfortable with the handling of the Chevy. The Chevy just FELT better (to ME) ...and, IMHO, it's the FEEL of a car's "handling", more than its calculated, measured statistics, that we actually notice and care about on a day to day basis. The best "handling" car that I ever owned was my 1974 Honda Civic...in terms of the CONFIDENT, comfortable, feel of driving it for 106,000 miles. How does my C6Z06 "feel"? OK at best relative to its potential. If your eyes get wide at 70 mph on a corner in the Vette and you get the same fear factor at 40 mph in a 74 Civic, then sure, the Vette handles "better"...BUT, at 30 mph, my old Honda would have felt more emotionally secure ("better handling") because of the better (that is, more of it) feel of the steering, the tires on the road, etc. Therefore, which car handles better? Don't be too quick to say the Vette, because 95% of most all the driving that we do with 95% of our cars is just routine around town or freeway stuff, more or less close to the speed limit, and, if we count driving through tight alleys, dodging errant traffic cones, parking the car, and whipping around the idiot stopped in the middle of a suburban street as "everyday handling" criteria, then the Vette is not nearly as good as my old Honda. Be honest, why did most of us buy the Vette? It's NOT because of the ACTUAL capability potential of its speed, acceleration, handling, etc...it's because it makes us feel good at an emotional level to be driving one of the 3 or 4 coolest cars in the world. And, at 61, it makes me feel young, and macho, and cool...just so long as I don't look in the damn mirror and see that I'm really an old fat fart
However, I don't think those things are the true measure of "handling." My point above is that a Ferrari F1 GP car would probably fail miserably in the criteria you've mentioned above, and would be a lot less fun to drive in that environment than the S2000. But I'd be hard-pressed to say the Honda handles better.
04-28-2007, 11:02 PM
#82
Drifting
04-28-2007, 11:56 PM
#83
Safety Car
Member Since: Feb 2002
Location: GA (some days)
Posts: 3,799
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would suspect that if most of us thought about it, we would recognize that (1) speed (2) acceleration (3) track lap times (4) autocross times, (5) G force rates, and (6) "subjective handling" are all different factors (among others) in any car's performance characteristics. Since 99+% of car magazine readers are NOT race car drivers and 99+% of street cars are NOT raced, then it's fair to say that "handling" is about how a car feels whether in "everyday" driving situations, or in street "pushing it" situations, or in "going like hell" street driving. Back in 1971 I had a 64 Austin Healey 3000 that I was driving one day on curving Maryland rural roads and I was having to push it real hard to keep ahead of a 45 foot long cement hauler behind me. I had an 84 Jaguar V12 XJS (with wire wheels) that felt almost dangerous at 45 mph on a posted 45 mph curve. Either one of those cars probably would go a lot quicker than my 74 Chevy Impala on a road course, but I never felt uncomfortable with the handling of the Chevy. The Chevy just FELT better (to ME) ...and, IMHO, it's the FEEL of a car's "handling", more than its calculated, measured statistics, that we actually notice and care about on a day to day basis. The best "handling" car that I ever owned was my 1974 Honda Civic...in terms of the CONFIDENT, comfortable, feel of driving it for 106,000 miles. How does my C6Z06 "feel"? OK at best relative to its potential. If your eyes get wide at 70 mph on a corner in the Vette and you get the same fear factor at 40 mph in a 74 Civic, then sure, the Vette handles "better"...BUT, at 30 mph, my old Honda would have felt more emotionally secure ("better handling") because of the better (that is, more of it) feel of the steering, the tires on the road, etc. Therefore, which car handles better? Don't be too quick to say the Vette, because 95% of most all the driving that we do with 95% of our cars is just routine around town or freeway stuff, more or less close to the speed limit, and, if we count driving through tight alleys, dodging errant traffic cones, parking the car, and whipping around the idiot stopped in the middle of a suburban street as "everyday handling" criteria, then the Vette is not nearly as good as my old Honda. Be honest, why did most of us buy the Vette? It's NOT because of the ACTUAL capability potential of its speed, acceleration, handling, etc...it's because it makes us feel good at an emotional level to be driving one of the 3 or 4 coolest cars in the world. And, at 61, it makes me feel young, and macho, and cool...just so long as I don't look in the damn mirror and see that I'm really an old fat fart
04-29-2007, 12:00 AM
#84
Safety Car
Member Since: Feb 2002
Location: GA (some days)
Posts: 3,799
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The real litmus test is asking the same driver if he were more confident turning the same time in another kind of sports car.
....and so based on the subjective feelings of a driver who drives both cars back to back his impressions would dictate which car handles better?
....and so based on the subjective feelings of a driver who drives both cars back to back his impressions would dictate which car handles better?
I guess it's just that some people can only recognize the stopwatch/G-meter as qualifiers with regard to handling...if you're one of them, then you're not going to "get it" in terms of the other factors that contribute to "good handling"...
04-29-2007, 12:52 AM
#85
Depending on the course a good driver in a GT3 will take your keys home. And I'm sure you wouldnt take that bet on an Auto-x.
Not to mention handlng is so much more than lap times or slalom times, you have to think that each and every car on that list will have fans who will say that they will eat your lunch on an autocross where the horsepower wont do you any good. That is where handling comes into even more focus because your suspension, weight transfer, inertia and all other aspect are constantly being tested and horsepower play a very small factor whereas road racing horsepower plays a much bigger factor.
Not to mention handlng is so much more than lap times or slalom times, you have to think that each and every car on that list will have fans who will say that they will eat your lunch on an autocross where the horsepower wont do you any good. That is where handling comes into even more focus because your suspension, weight transfer, inertia and all other aspect are constantly being tested and horsepower play a very small factor whereas road racing horsepower plays a much bigger factor.
1st of all we don't have keys anymore...it's just the FOB.
2nd unless there were no "good GT3 drivers" that were at the Barber Park PCA club race last June I would have won that bet based on Friday DE practice where I was the only DE car put in the 2nd race DE group.
I can't comment on the AutoX thing...these were 20 minutes sessions. My understanding of NCCC AutoX is it's just a timed lap...were talking about 10-15 race practice laps. SCCA AutoX is parking lot stuff.
AutoX is like qualifying...doesn't really indicate the best race car.
There are tons of stuff to talk about when the handling topic comes up but the bottome line is...well who gets to the line 1st.
My judgement of handling is if I'm gaining on the car in front of me in the corners...and 997 TT's, Porsche Cup cars, & GT3's are giving me wave bys after seeing my front end in their mirros...maybe they weren't "good drivers' but I don't think PCA club racers are in that group.
Last edited by Gary2KC5; 04-29-2007 at 12:57 AM.
04-29-2007, 02:23 AM
#86
I would suspect that if most of us thought about it, we would recognize that (1) speed (2) acceleration (3) track lap times (4) autocross times, (5) G force rates, and (6) "subjective handling" are all different factors (among others) in any car's performance characteristics. Since 99+% of car magazine readers are NOT race car drivers and 99+% of street cars are NOT raced, then it's fair to say that "handling" is about how a car feels whether in "everyday" driving situations, or in street "pushing it" situations, or in "going like hell" street driving. Back in 1971 I had a 64 Austin Healey 3000 that I was driving one day on curving Maryland rural roads and I was having to push it real hard to keep ahead of a 45 foot long cement hauler behind me. I had an 84 Jaguar V12 XJS (with wire wheels) that felt almost dangerous at 45 mph on a posted 45 mph curve. Either one of those cars probably would go a lot quicker than my 74 Chevy Impala on a road course, but I never felt uncomfortable with the handling of the Chevy. The Chevy just FELT better (to ME) ...and, IMHO, it's the FEEL of a car's "handling", more than its calculated, measured statistics, that we actually notice and care about on a day to day basis. The best "handling" car that I ever owned was my 1974 Honda Civic...in terms of the CONFIDENT, comfortable, feel of driving it for 106,000 miles. How does my C6Z06 "feel"? OK at best relative to its potential. If your eyes get wide at 70 mph on a corner in the Vette and you get the same fear factor at 40 mph in a 74 Civic, then sure, the Vette handles "better"...BUT, at 30 mph, my old Honda would have felt more emotionally secure ("better handling") because of the better (that is, more of it) feel of the steering, the tires on the road, etc. Therefore, which car handles better? Don't be too quick to say the Vette, because 95% of most all the driving that we do with 95% of our cars is just routine around town or freeway stuff, more or less close to the speed limit, and, if we count driving through tight alleys, dodging errant traffic cones, parking the car, and whipping around the idiot stopped in the middle of a suburban street as "everyday handling" criteria, then the Vette is not nearly as good as my old Honda. Be honest, why did most of us buy the Vette? It's NOT because of the ACTUAL capability potential of its speed, acceleration, handling, etc...it's because it makes us feel good at an emotional level to be driving one of the 3 or 4 coolest cars in the world. And, at 61, it makes me feel young, and macho, and cool...just so long as I don't look in the damn mirror and see that I'm really an old fat fart
I appreciate great performance at any level, whether go-kart or Bugatti. I just don't get them confused.
04-29-2007, 09:24 AM
#87
Racer
Member Since: Mar 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
all this comparison told me is what i've always thought: the Cayman should ahve more power --but Porsche won't allow it.
Raj covered the rest for me.
in a handling test, if a mid-engined car isn't winning, something is wrong.
Raj covered the rest for me.
in a handling test, if a mid-engined car isn't winning, something is wrong.
04-29-2007, 09:47 AM
#88
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Jan 2007
Location: SOUTHERN CALI - Most of the time California
Posts: 2,749
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
ArticleI'm in Las Vegas right now. Yesterday, I raced at Spring Mountain, ran the track at 3.13 on stock tires.
There was a Lotus Exige with slicks, pro driver who did 3.11.5
There was about 1.5 second difference. But take a look at this, track junkie (amazing driver w slicks) vs me (second time at the track with stock tires)...
I'm sure I could get a much better time, with more track experince. But this shows that the Z with somewhat of a confident driver can do.
The only other better time was with a full on modified of c6 Z06 (driver had over 30 years driving experince) and he ran 3.07
The Z06 is a beast, you just got to know how to master it.
04-29-2007, 09:48 AM
#89
Instructor
This is what Max Angelelli had to say about the Z06 at Laguna Seca:
"This one is definitely the most difficult to drive, because of the low rear grip and high power."
"The front seems soft and heavy, and the rear seems too stiff and very light. So when you go into all the corners, you have enormous oversteer. Off power, on power, on brake -everywhere."
- Interesting, coming from a GM factory racer.
In contrast, his comments on the GT3:
"The Porsche 911 GT3, to me, is perfect. I wouldn't change anything. I like the engine, the handling, the brakes. This is the car every race driver would like to have on the rack. It's neutral and has a wide powerband, the brakes are stable, it's well balanced, it has good traction. It's perfect."
"This one is definitely the most difficult to drive, because of the low rear grip and high power."
"The front seems soft and heavy, and the rear seems too stiff and very light. So when you go into all the corners, you have enormous oversteer. Off power, on power, on brake -everywhere."
- Interesting, coming from a GM factory racer.
In contrast, his comments on the GT3:
"The Porsche 911 GT3, to me, is perfect. I wouldn't change anything. I like the engine, the handling, the brakes. This is the car every race driver would like to have on the rack. It's neutral and has a wide powerband, the brakes are stable, it's well balanced, it has good traction. It's perfect."
04-29-2007, 10:02 AM
#90
Lighter, more nimble, shorter, narrower, more feedback, etc. And a lot easier to drive quickly.
However, I don't think those things are the true measure of "handling." My point above is that a Ferrari F1 GP car would probably fail miserably in the criteria you've mentioned above, and would be a lot less fun to drive in that environment than the S2000. But I'd be hard-pressed to say the Honda handles better.
However, I don't think those things are the true measure of "handling." My point above is that a Ferrari F1 GP car would probably fail miserably in the criteria you've mentioned above, and would be a lot less fun to drive in that environment than the S2000. But I'd be hard-pressed to say the Honda handles better.
). Say the street car handles like a dream -- sliding either end of the car at will in a progressive, easily controlled manner, and never doing anything unexpected. It will make its driver feel like a superstar. On the other hand, the imagined F1 car (remember, for the purposes of this exercise, it's set up for terminal understeer) will slide the front end around most of the corners on the course, frustrating the driver and forcing them to adjust their driving style to compensate. Once and a while the tail pops out, and the driver loops the car, forcing them to compensate further, and reducing their confidence. This hypothetical street car handles much better than this hypothetical F1 car -- it gives the driver more options and more enjoyment. But guess what? The F1 car's first clean lap will obliterate the street car's best lap, because although it misbehaves at the limit, its superior power and grip will allow it to carry more speed through every course element even at nine tenths.
Handling is not the same thing as track speed. Mazda Miatas have fantastic handling, but they're also very slow. An old Mustang with a blower and slicks will be mighty fast around a track, but will handle terribly. It's not impossible for a Civic to outhandle a Z06 although it would lap a track vastly slower.
04-29-2007, 10:02 AM
#91
First off, Motor Trend has never been an automotive magazine for real car enthusiasts. It ranks one step better than Consumer Reports in terms of its relevance to real car guys.
Secondly, as a real car guy with 25 years experience marketing high performance cars at the importer/distributer as well as the retail levels, I must remain objective about my 2006 Zo6.
Yes, the car is incredible and represents the best performance value on the market. Yes, the car is well constructed and full of cutting edge technology. Yes, the car is beautifully styled and entertaining to drive.
However, purely from a handling perspective, the suspension does feel somewhat nervous when compared to the world's best. The steering is unquestionably more vague and less communicative and the rear grip is challenged on uneven surfaces which fail to faze other cars as much.
I have recently owned a Porsche 997 (sold to purchase the Zo6), as well as a MINI Cooper S with limited slip. I have also owned a Lotus Elise and numerous BMW 3 Series. In all honesty, I would place each of these vehicles ahead of my Zo6 in terms of handling. The team at Corvette engineering would love to have the steering feel and handling attributes of some of these cars and would be the first to admit the same.
Incidentally, in case you are wondering, I do know how to drive and have more than 1000 track miles on a C5 Zo6 alone. I returned from the UK on Friday where I was testing a number of the world's most expensive automobiles last week at Prodrive's HQ and facilities. Few cars do everything well and most are heavily compromised in one or more areas. I have driven the Bugatti Veyron and the Lamborghini LP 640 and wouldn't trade either driving experience for my Zo6 in terms of satisfaction, fun and entertainment factor. The same is true for any Aston and most Ferraris. I would however trade for a Porsche GT3 or Lotus Elise if that gives you any insight into my priorities regarding handling and chassis dynamics.
To suggest that smaller, lighter and more dynamically focused mid-engined cars such as the Elise and Cayman handle worse than a Zo6 is about as inaccurate and uninformed as suggesting that they will outperform a Zo6 in a straight line.
The reason I purchased my Zo6 is down to the totality of the car's abilities and its performance on balance rather than in one area alone.
Its relatively simple for an automaker to build a car with more power or less weight or better grip but few companies can build a sports car like the Zo6 that does everything very well and a few things brilliantly.
That said, no other car in production delivers this level of sophistication amd total performance for anywhere near $100K.
My Zo6 offers me one of the very best driving experiences in the world, not because of its top speed, quarter mile times and most certainly not because of its particularly precise handling capability.
Go drive the other cars mentioned, form your own opinions and then come back home to your Zo6. You'll still want your car more than theirs but you might understand a litte better why its better and in which areas.
Secondly, as a real car guy with 25 years experience marketing high performance cars at the importer/distributer as well as the retail levels, I must remain objective about my 2006 Zo6.
Yes, the car is incredible and represents the best performance value on the market. Yes, the car is well constructed and full of cutting edge technology. Yes, the car is beautifully styled and entertaining to drive.
However, purely from a handling perspective, the suspension does feel somewhat nervous when compared to the world's best. The steering is unquestionably more vague and less communicative and the rear grip is challenged on uneven surfaces which fail to faze other cars as much.
I have recently owned a Porsche 997 (sold to purchase the Zo6), as well as a MINI Cooper S with limited slip. I have also owned a Lotus Elise and numerous BMW 3 Series. In all honesty, I would place each of these vehicles ahead of my Zo6 in terms of handling. The team at Corvette engineering would love to have the steering feel and handling attributes of some of these cars and would be the first to admit the same.
Incidentally, in case you are wondering, I do know how to drive and have more than 1000 track miles on a C5 Zo6 alone. I returned from the UK on Friday where I was testing a number of the world's most expensive automobiles last week at Prodrive's HQ and facilities. Few cars do everything well and most are heavily compromised in one or more areas. I have driven the Bugatti Veyron and the Lamborghini LP 640 and wouldn't trade either driving experience for my Zo6 in terms of satisfaction, fun and entertainment factor. The same is true for any Aston and most Ferraris. I would however trade for a Porsche GT3 or Lotus Elise if that gives you any insight into my priorities regarding handling and chassis dynamics.
To suggest that smaller, lighter and more dynamically focused mid-engined cars such as the Elise and Cayman handle worse than a Zo6 is about as inaccurate and uninformed as suggesting that they will outperform a Zo6 in a straight line.
The reason I purchased my Zo6 is down to the totality of the car's abilities and its performance on balance rather than in one area alone.
Its relatively simple for an automaker to build a car with more power or less weight or better grip but few companies can build a sports car like the Zo6 that does everything very well and a few things brilliantly.
That said, no other car in production delivers this level of sophistication amd total performance for anywhere near $100K.
My Zo6 offers me one of the very best driving experiences in the world, not because of its top speed, quarter mile times and most certainly not because of its particularly precise handling capability.
Go drive the other cars mentioned, form your own opinions and then come back home to your Zo6. You'll still want your car more than theirs but you might understand a litte better why its better and in which areas.
04-29-2007, 10:18 AM
#92
Incidentally, did anyone citing the Z06's Nurburgring time as proof of its superior handling actually read the test driver's account of that lap? He found the car's handling spooky due to its excess of power relative to grip -- after catching air in two spots (!), he said (translated): "I couldn't have driven one single lap more. I wouldn't have liked to drive a single meter more with myself at the wheel at that speed."
No denying the car's ultimate potential, but again, sheer speed is not the same thing as handling.
No denying the car's ultimate potential, but again, sheer speed is not the same thing as handling.
04-29-2007, 10:51 AM
#93
Advanced
Member Since: Jan 2006
Location: in Texas Texas
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Motor trend (and its sister companies) have the largest advertising contract from Porsche. Now would you think they wouldn't rank Porsche 1 and Corvette 9 ?
I owned 6 different Porsche until I test drove a Z06. I fell in love with it and regret why all these years I spent so much money for over hyped under power german cars.
Handeling is not as precise as Porsche but right above Civic is big time BS.
I owned 6 different Porsche until I test drove a Z06. I fell in love with it and regret why all these years I spent so much money for over hyped under power german cars.
Handeling is not as precise as Porsche but right above Civic is big time BS.
04-29-2007, 11:07 AM
#94
Racer
Member Since: Mar 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is what Max Angelelli had to say about the Z06 at Laguna Seca:
"This one is definitely the most difficult to drive, because of the low rear grip and high power."
"The front seems soft and heavy, and the rear seems too stiff and very light. So when you go into all the corners, you have enormous oversteer. Off power, on power, on brake -everywhere."
- Interesting, coming from a GM factory racer.
In contrast, his comments on the GT3:
"The Porsche 911 GT3, to me, is perfect. I wouldn't change anything. I like the engine, the handling, the brakes. This is the car every race driver would like to have on the rack. It's neutral and has a wide powerband, the brakes are stable, it's well balanced, it has good traction. It's perfect."
"This one is definitely the most difficult to drive, because of the low rear grip and high power."
"The front seems soft and heavy, and the rear seems too stiff and very light. So when you go into all the corners, you have enormous oversteer. Off power, on power, on brake -everywhere."
- Interesting, coming from a GM factory racer.
In contrast, his comments on the GT3:
"The Porsche 911 GT3, to me, is perfect. I wouldn't change anything. I like the engine, the handling, the brakes. This is the car every race driver would like to have on the rack. It's neutral and has a wide powerband, the brakes are stable, it's well balanced, it has good traction. It's perfect."
well, i've never felt the C6z06 was as communicative a car as the c5z06 --so ultimately, this sort of touchy feely subjective ranking doesn't really surprise me at all.
this isn't really questioning the car's ability at all. the message is that while it has very high limits and very high potential, for the most part, a random person stepping into the car will be very uncomfortable in it compared with the other cars in the group.
while it's possible to do very foolhardy things in the 997 or the 987, you have to really work hard to get those cars unsettled. that's not so true in the Z06. to me, that's actually part of the appeal.
04-29-2007, 12:17 PM
#95
Advanced
Member Since: Jan 2006
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks.
04-29-2007, 12:35 PM
#96
Advanced
Member Since: Jan 2006
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You made some good points. However, let me correct the above. Yes, there ARE dozens of cars that offer sophistication and total performance for under $100K that as a package rival or beat the Chevrolet. M5, various AMG's, Cayman S, 997, M3, RS4/RS6, Lotus, Viper, etc. There are a lot of options. Any "enthusiast" would happily swap cars with the above and certainly appreciate doing some things better than the Z and some things worse...
Last edited by Johnny Por'sha; 04-29-2007 at 12:40 PM.
04-29-2007, 12:36 PM
#97
Instructor
The MT issue featuring the handling article has 4 GM ads spanning 5 pages (including the back cover). I didn't count a single Porsche ad.
04-29-2007, 12:38 PM
#98
Drifting
Member Since: Dec 2006
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 1,526
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On first thoughts, a fairly thorough (by MT's standards, that is!) handling test with an interesting mix of cars. They had a reasonable battery of tests in which all cars were assigned a quantitative score based on measured performance. But meander over to the conclusion and what have you! 
They abandoned all the numbers generated in the various instrumented tests designed specifically to quantify the individual components of handling (steering feel, chassis control and response, cornering grip, etc.) and instead concocted a wonderful spider chart (now that's a technical name! 
) based on eight new rectally extracted categories with entirely subjective rankings!!! This is exactly equivalent to testing the quantitative skills of 10 students using several scientific tests and then ranking them based on their dress sense, hygiene and sex appeal!
So I took the liberty of actually rating the top five cars based solely on their ranks in the six objective categories and here are the results of that comparison:
Lo and Behold! The Z06 ties for third overall with the Lotus Exige! I'd be the last to grudge the 997 GT3 it's rightful crown as the handling champ of street cars but to summarily reject the Z06 while it's handling by any quantifiable measure is as good as a track-bred ultralight mid-engine sportscar (the Exige) simply smacks of ignorance!
This is an an all-time new low by MT and beats even their asinine Figure 8 invention. R&T has got some serious competition at the nadir of automotive journalism! 
They abandoned all the numbers generated in the various instrumented tests designed specifically to quantify the individual components of handling (steering feel, chassis control and response, cornering grip, etc.) and instead concocted a wonderful spider chart (now that's a technical name! ) based on eight new rectally extracted categories with entirely subjective rankings!!! This is exactly equivalent to testing the quantitative skills of 10 students using several scientific tests and then ranking them based on their dress sense, hygiene and sex appeal! So I took the liberty of actually rating the top five cars based solely on their ranks in the six objective categories and here are the results of that comparison:
Lo and Behold! The Z06 ties for third overall with the Lotus Exige! I'd be the last to grudge the 997 GT3 it's rightful crown as the handling champ of street cars but to summarily reject the Z06 while it's handling by any quantifiable measure is as good as a track-bred ultralight mid-engine sportscar (the Exige) simply smacks of ignorance!
This is an an all-time new low by MT and beats even their asinine Figure 8 invention. R&T has got some serious competition at the nadir of automotive journalism! This is what MT is doing all the time: "fabricating" the final ranking.
I never buy this magazine because of their ethic and I suggest everybody to do the same.
04-29-2007, 12:50 PM
#99
Drifting
Member Since: Dec 2006
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 1,526
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First off, Motor Trend has never been an automotive magazine for real car enthusiasts. It ranks one step better than Consumer Reports in terms of its relevance to real car guys.
Secondly, as a real car guy with 25 years experience marketing high performance cars at the importer/distributer as well as the retail levels, I must remain objective about my 2006 Zo6.
Yes, the car is incredible and represents the best performance value on the market. Yes, the car is well constructed and full of cutting edge technology. Yes, the car is beautifully styled and entertaining to drive.
However, purely from a handling perspective, the suspension does feel somewhat nervous when compared to the world's best. The steering is unquestionably more vague and less communicative and the rear grip is challenged on uneven surfaces which fail to faze other cars as much.
I have recently owned a Porsche 997 (sold to purchase the Zo6), as well as a MINI Cooper S with limited slip. I have also owned a Lotus Elise and numerous BMW 3 Series. In all honesty, I would place each of these vehicles ahead of my Zo6 in terms of handling. The team at Corvette engineering would love to have the steering feel and handling attributes of some of these cars and would be the first to admit the same.
Incidentally, in case you are wondering, I do know how to drive and have more than 1000 track miles on a C5 Zo6 alone. I returned from the UK on Friday where I was testing a number of the world's most expensive automobiles last week at Prodrive's HQ and facilities. Few cars do everything well and most are heavily compromised in one or more areas. I have driven the Bugatti Veyron and the Lamborghini LP 640 and wouldn't trade either driving experience for my Zo6 in terms of satisfaction, fun and entertainment factor. The same is true for any Aston and most Ferraris. I would however trade for a Porsche GT3 or Lotus Elise if that gives you any insight into my priorities regarding handling and chassis dynamics.
To suggest that smaller, lighter and more dynamically focused mid-engined cars such as the Elise and Cayman handle worse than a Zo6 is about as inaccurate and uninformed as suggesting that they will outperform a Zo6 in a straight line.
The reason I purchased my Zo6 is down to the totality of the car's abilities and its performance on balance rather than in one area alone.
Its relatively simple for an automaker to build a car with more power or less weight or better grip but few companies can build a sports car like the Zo6 that does everything very well and a few things brilliantly.
That said, no other car in production delivers this level of sophistication amd total performance for anywhere near $100K.
My Zo6 offers me one of the very best driving experiences in the world, not because of its top speed, quarter mile times and most certainly not because of its particularly precise handling capability.
Go drive the other cars mentioned, form your own opinions and then come back home to your Zo6. You'll still want your car more than theirs but you might understand a litte better why its better and in which areas.
Secondly, as a real car guy with 25 years experience marketing high performance cars at the importer/distributer as well as the retail levels, I must remain objective about my 2006 Zo6.
Yes, the car is incredible and represents the best performance value on the market. Yes, the car is well constructed and full of cutting edge technology. Yes, the car is beautifully styled and entertaining to drive.
However, purely from a handling perspective, the suspension does feel somewhat nervous when compared to the world's best. The steering is unquestionably more vague and less communicative and the rear grip is challenged on uneven surfaces which fail to faze other cars as much.
I have recently owned a Porsche 997 (sold to purchase the Zo6), as well as a MINI Cooper S with limited slip. I have also owned a Lotus Elise and numerous BMW 3 Series. In all honesty, I would place each of these vehicles ahead of my Zo6 in terms of handling. The team at Corvette engineering would love to have the steering feel and handling attributes of some of these cars and would be the first to admit the same.
Incidentally, in case you are wondering, I do know how to drive and have more than 1000 track miles on a C5 Zo6 alone. I returned from the UK on Friday where I was testing a number of the world's most expensive automobiles last week at Prodrive's HQ and facilities. Few cars do everything well and most are heavily compromised in one or more areas. I have driven the Bugatti Veyron and the Lamborghini LP 640 and wouldn't trade either driving experience for my Zo6 in terms of satisfaction, fun and entertainment factor. The same is true for any Aston and most Ferraris. I would however trade for a Porsche GT3 or Lotus Elise if that gives you any insight into my priorities regarding handling and chassis dynamics.
To suggest that smaller, lighter and more dynamically focused mid-engined cars such as the Elise and Cayman handle worse than a Zo6 is about as inaccurate and uninformed as suggesting that they will outperform a Zo6 in a straight line.
The reason I purchased my Zo6 is down to the totality of the car's abilities and its performance on balance rather than in one area alone.
Its relatively simple for an automaker to build a car with more power or less weight or better grip but few companies can build a sports car like the Zo6 that does everything very well and a few things brilliantly.
That said, no other car in production delivers this level of sophistication amd total performance for anywhere near $100K.
My Zo6 offers me one of the very best driving experiences in the world, not because of its top speed, quarter mile times and most certainly not because of its particularly precise handling capability.
Go drive the other cars mentioned, form your own opinions and then come back home to your Zo6. You'll still want your car more than theirs but you might understand a litte better why its better and in which areas.
1. GT3
2. Cayman
3. Tie: Exige and Z06
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1560016993
I have no problems with that ranking.
04-29-2007, 01:05 PM
#100
Drifting
No I get it, and I recognize the difference between objective data and subjective impressions. You’re just confusing the two. Just because a car feels good doesn’t make it good. And while your car may give you all the subjective feedback you need to gain confidence in driving the car to your limits of comfort doesn’t mean the car is a good handling car. It simply means you’ve explored your limits. Some of the best handling cars in the world have been an absolute bear to drive at the limit; i.e.: Porsche 930 turbo, 935’s, the pre 993 cars, the McLaren F1, etc…
