[Z06] c6 z06 prices - 06, 09 or new?
#21
FWIW, I do think the issue is a bit blown out of proportion, but it is still a valid issue one needs to think about it. If I had warranty, I wouldn't worry about it and enjoy the car. It truly is a wonderful car and I wouldn't be making the 'investment' into head work if I thought otherwise.
If you plan on selling the car before warranty expires, then I wouldn't bother with headwork and let the next guy decide what he wants to do with it.
But if I had plans on keeping the car in the long term, I'd look into getting head work done.
My main point is, while a warranty is very nice for peace of mind, it is a delay of the inevitable. A long term car will want head work regardless, so you either pay for it now with a less expensive out of warranty car, or you pay for later with a more expensive car when it gets out of warranty. In that regard, you could argue that the less expensive car is a better value since the upfront cost was less to start with and you've got a set of reliable valves/heads.
But this is not to say the newer cars aren't worth it, but I wouldn't look at a possible engine problem as the reason to move forward or back away from a certain year car. If there is a certain option or package available for a specific year that you want, then sure, go for it, but if you aren't tied to that, then find the best deal that the buyer feels is right for them, older or newer.
Also, I also do not think headwork is just throwing money away, it will be of value to the next buyer.
This is a really unfortunate and sad situation, there are no winners here (except maybe WCCH & GM) but it is what it is.
If you plan on selling the car before warranty expires, then I wouldn't bother with headwork and let the next guy decide what he wants to do with it.
But if I had plans on keeping the car in the long term, I'd look into getting head work done.
My main point is, while a warranty is very nice for peace of mind, it is a delay of the inevitable. A long term car will want head work regardless, so you either pay for it now with a less expensive out of warranty car, or you pay for later with a more expensive car when it gets out of warranty. In that regard, you could argue that the less expensive car is a better value since the upfront cost was less to start with and you've got a set of reliable valves/heads.
But this is not to say the newer cars aren't worth it, but I wouldn't look at a possible engine problem as the reason to move forward or back away from a certain year car. If there is a certain option or package available for a specific year that you want, then sure, go for it, but if you aren't tied to that, then find the best deal that the buyer feels is right for them, older or newer.
Also, I also do not think headwork is just throwing money away, it will be of value to the next buyer.
This is a really unfortunate and sad situation, there are no winners here (except maybe WCCH & GM) but it is what it is.
#22
Sr.Random input generator
Pretty sure I had read somewhere a 2012 had some sort of issue or wear and had to get stuff replaced under warranty.
Ultimately time will tell, but many folks thought 09+ were immune with the part number change.
And as they got older and even though they were built in very limited numbers compared to the earlier years, we started to see failures for 09s and 10s. There is nothing to indicate there was any sort of change for any year after that.
I don't mean to be a pessimist but I'm expecting the same thing as the 11s, 12s, and 13s get older.
Considering there are no known changes and we've seen issues up to the 2012 model year, I think its just a matter of time before we'll see anything on a 2013 car. As I noted above, many folks thought the 2009+ cars were immune, but it just took a bit of extra time before we started to see those pop up. I'm expecting the same thing as the 11s, 12s, and 13s get older.
Here is an example of an issue. The car is an 2009, which dropped a valve, and the replacement motor was built in September 2012, well within the range of being a MY 2013 car, which experienced wear as well. This could be a one off, but it was a little disheartening to see it happen on such a new motor.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...ve-guides.html
Sadly, I don't think it is a matter of 'Can I prove 2013s have an issue?', but rather 'Can you prove that GM did something about it for 2013s?'
Ultimately time will tell, but many folks thought 09+ were immune with the part number change.
And as they got older and even though they were built in very limited numbers compared to the earlier years, we started to see failures for 09s and 10s. There is nothing to indicate there was any sort of change for any year after that.
I don't mean to be a pessimist but I'm expecting the same thing as the 11s, 12s, and 13s get older.
Considering there are no known changes and we've seen issues up to the 2012 model year, I think its just a matter of time before we'll see anything on a 2013 car. As I noted above, many folks thought the 2009+ cars were immune, but it just took a bit of extra time before we started to see those pop up. I'm expecting the same thing as the 11s, 12s, and 13s get older.
Here is an example of an issue. The car is an 2009, which dropped a valve, and the replacement motor was built in September 2012, well within the range of being a MY 2013 car, which experienced wear as well. This could be a one off, but it was a little disheartening to see it happen on such a new motor.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...ve-guides.html
Sadly, I don't think it is a matter of 'Can I prove 2013s have an issue?', but rather 'Can you prove that GM did something about it for 2013s?'
#23
Le Mans Master
Try and Find a new one like you described make em an offer- Don't think your close
You can probably find a piece of junk for low dollars.
My recommendation is Find the vette you want make a deal!
You can probably find a piece of junk for low dollars.
My recommendation is Find the vette you want make a deal!
#24
Le Mans Master
#26
Burning Brakes
Back to the thread topic
2009 Z-06 Cyber Grey Metallic 3LZ 751 miles...... $52K from McClaren Philly
2009 Z-06 Cyber Grey Metallic 3LZ 751 miles...... $52K from McClaren Philly
Last edited by The_Raging_Bull; 02-01-2013 at 10:25 PM.
#27
Team Owner
thinking of getting a c6 z06....
preferably a clean, fairly low miles car, black, red, silver in that order.
as a baseline, i see dealers advertising $14,000 - 18500 off of MSRP (actually some of them say invoice) for new 2013's.
if that is true, a base, no option black 1lz z06 retails at $68000; what is the cheapest you can get one for? $54,000 and I'll just buy a new one.
a clean 2006 ranges from a best i have seen of about $32k, to ASKING prices in the mid 40's. What do you think I should find one for now? If I could find one in the mid $30's, that would be well worth it.... however, mid 40's is getting awfully close to a new one in today's market.
a 2009 seems like the first year of a combination of improvements worth much (07 has axles, 08 the trans, but 09 also has new programming which hopefully helps). An 09 would be worth at least $3000 more than an 06 to me.
what should an 09 go for?
and do we expect them all to drop significantly this fall when the 07's hit?
thoughts are appreciated.
preferably a clean, fairly low miles car, black, red, silver in that order.
as a baseline, i see dealers advertising $14,000 - 18500 off of MSRP (actually some of them say invoice) for new 2013's.
if that is true, a base, no option black 1lz z06 retails at $68000; what is the cheapest you can get one for? $54,000 and I'll just buy a new one.
a clean 2006 ranges from a best i have seen of about $32k, to ASKING prices in the mid 40's. What do you think I should find one for now? If I could find one in the mid $30's, that would be well worth it.... however, mid 40's is getting awfully close to a new one in today's market.
a 2009 seems like the first year of a combination of improvements worth much (07 has axles, 08 the trans, but 09 also has new programming which hopefully helps). An 09 would be worth at least $3000 more than an 06 to me.
what should an 09 go for?
and do we expect them all to drop significantly this fall when the 07's hit?
thoughts are appreciated.
I just bought a 2006 last fall then came down sick.
I only drove the 2006 about 150 miles but notice some things are cooler about it compared to the 2008.
Plus stock to stock it feels stronger and lighter.
The 2006 is for sale with 1lz and black 7900 miles and GMPP
till 7-29-2015. The plan was two replace the higher mile 2008
but is F/I'd now and now I'm attached to it! Going in the trader this weekend!
#28
Burning Brakes
A couple questions from a newbie, please bear with me if these sound like dumb questions (or as one of my professors used to tell me, "There are no dumb questions, only dumb people") :
1. Does the "headwork" involved in preventing the "valve guide problem" void the 5-year drivetrain warranty, e.g. if I buy a used 2010 Z06 have the headwork done?
2. Does the "headwork" essentially fix/prevent the problem close to 100% ? Or is it not that simple?
3. How much does the "headwork" cost, and can it be done somewhere in Southern California? If not, where could I take a Z06 to have this done by some people that will do a solid job ?
4. In regards to the prior statement "There are so far no reports of a car with the issue past GM's stated Feb 2011 quality fix date in terms of cars with dropped valve issues." How do you tell if a given 2011 Z06 was produced before or after Feb 2011? Do you just pop open the hood or door and look at some sticker that says "Made in January 2011" ?
I will be in the market later this year for a Z06 and am trying to learn as much as possible. Thanks.
1. Does the "headwork" involved in preventing the "valve guide problem" void the 5-year drivetrain warranty, e.g. if I buy a used 2010 Z06 have the headwork done?
2. Does the "headwork" essentially fix/prevent the problem close to 100% ? Or is it not that simple?
3. How much does the "headwork" cost, and can it be done somewhere in Southern California? If not, where could I take a Z06 to have this done by some people that will do a solid job ?
4. In regards to the prior statement "There are so far no reports of a car with the issue past GM's stated Feb 2011 quality fix date in terms of cars with dropped valve issues." How do you tell if a given 2011 Z06 was produced before or after Feb 2011? Do you just pop open the hood or door and look at some sticker that says "Made in January 2011" ?
I will be in the market later this year for a Z06 and am trying to learn as much as possible. Thanks.
Last edited by Adam_W; 02-01-2013 at 11:38 PM.
#29
Burning Brakes
A couple questions from a newbie, please bear with me if these sound like dumb questions (or as one of my professors used to tell me, "There are no dumb questions, only dumb people") :
1. Does the "headwork" involved in preventing the "valve guide problem" void the 5-year drivetrain warranty, e.g. if I buy a used 2010 Z06 have the headwork done?
2. Does the "headwork" essentially fix/prevent the problem close to 100% ? Or is it not that simple?
3. How much does the "headwork" cost, and can it be done somewhere in Southern California? If not, where could I take a Z06 to have this done by some people that will do a solid job ?
4. In regards to the prior statement "There are so far no reports of a car with the issue past GM's stated Feb 2011 quality fix date in terms of cars with dropped valve issues." How do you tell if a given 2011 Z06 was produced before or after Feb 2011? Do you just pop open the hood or door and look at some sticker that says "Made in January 2011" ?
I will be in the market later this year for a Z06 and am trying to learn as much as possible. Thanks.
1. Does the "headwork" involved in preventing the "valve guide problem" void the 5-year drivetrain warranty, e.g. if I buy a used 2010 Z06 have the headwork done?
2. Does the "headwork" essentially fix/prevent the problem close to 100% ? Or is it not that simple?
3. How much does the "headwork" cost, and can it be done somewhere in Southern California? If not, where could I take a Z06 to have this done by some people that will do a solid job ?
4. In regards to the prior statement "There are so far no reports of a car with the issue past GM's stated Feb 2011 quality fix date in terms of cars with dropped valve issues." How do you tell if a given 2011 Z06 was produced before or after Feb 2011? Do you just pop open the hood or door and look at some sticker that says "Made in January 2011" ?
I will be in the market later this year for a Z06 and am trying to learn as much as possible. Thanks.
Anyway my guess is that if GM inspected the heads to see if they had hardened guides, yes it would void the warranty. Then again, if it prevents the valve drop...? Personally I have 866 mies on my 09; I plan on doing a 750 to 850 RWHP supercharged LS7 in about a year and a half once the 5 year is almost up; and using a very low milage LS7 to help defray the costs of that $22K to $25K in costs. I wont be buying a C7 any time soon, since I think an upscaled C6 Z06 will destroy any upscaled C7 model in stock form, and I'll still be way less money than the newest latest greatest from Chevy; as I bought my 09 3LZ Z06 at 751 miles for $52K.
If I was going to keep the car for a while, and wanted to fix the main issue until the 5 year warranty was up and then do bolt ons, then I''d have no issue with valve guides. Thats the root cause for the engine grenading. Since all the other issues wouldn't require GM to rip apart the heads who'd know?
Same thing for a tune, since you can rewrite bit for bit the ecu bios in the tune, so all you need to do before warranty work is restore the oem tune, and allow the registers to reset. The new tune just rewrites the bios, but the registers are not filled. BTW this is the same thing that happens when you allow your battery to discharge, since that will eliminate the register data too.
From my end, a Halltech CAI and a tune were good for +33RWHP; so a pretty good investment at about $32/hp; plus CAGS was disabled...goodbye skip shift.
Last edited by The_Raging_Bull; 02-02-2013 at 08:04 AM.
#30
Racer
Member Since: Mar 2012
Location: Wesley Chapel FL
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Id pick up a 2006, and have the heads done if GMPP was not available. No sense in paying way more money for the the same car overall. Throw a 2008+ center console in, and you will be very pleased.
#31
Burning Brakes
Amazing how a thread about buying a used or new Z turns into a dropped exhaust valve pissing match. My advice, buy the car and enjoy it and quit worrying about valves. To answer the OPs question, as with any used car, the newer the better. Depending on what you have budgeted, look for the newest and lowest mile car you can afford. As for buying new with discount, good luck in finding a new 1LZ without options at this late stage in the game. As someone else stated, most discounted cars are in inventory on dealer lots. As for pricing on used cars, you have all kinds of pricing guides on the Web such as NADA, Edmunds.com, Cars.com, and Kelly Blue Book. Use them. You will be looking at pricing based on mileage and condition. If buying from a private owner, you are looking at a price between trade in and retail. Good luck with it.
#32
A couple questions from a newbie, please bear with me if these sound like dumb questions (or as one of my professors used to tell me, "There are no dumb questions, only dumb people") :
1. Does the "headwork" involved in preventing the "valve guide problem" void the 5-year drivetrain warranty, e.g. if I buy a used 2010 Z06 have the headwork done?
2. Does the "headwork" essentially fix/prevent the problem close to 100% ? Or is it not that simple?
3. How much does the "headwork" cost, and can it be done somewhere in Southern California? If not, where could I take a Z06 to have this done by some people that will do a solid job ?
4. In regards to the prior statement "There are so far no reports of a car with the issue past GM's stated Feb 2011 quality fix date in terms of cars with dropped valve issues." How do you tell if a given 2011 Z06 was produced before or after Feb 2011? Do you just pop open the hood or door and look at some sticker that says "Made in January 2011" ?
I will be in the market later this year for a Z06 and am trying to learn as much as possible. Thanks.
1. Does the "headwork" involved in preventing the "valve guide problem" void the 5-year drivetrain warranty, e.g. if I buy a used 2010 Z06 have the headwork done?
2. Does the "headwork" essentially fix/prevent the problem close to 100% ? Or is it not that simple?
3. How much does the "headwork" cost, and can it be done somewhere in Southern California? If not, where could I take a Z06 to have this done by some people that will do a solid job ?
4. In regards to the prior statement "There are so far no reports of a car with the issue past GM's stated Feb 2011 quality fix date in terms of cars with dropped valve issues." How do you tell if a given 2011 Z06 was produced before or after Feb 2011? Do you just pop open the hood or door and look at some sticker that says "Made in January 2011" ?
I will be in the market later this year for a Z06 and am trying to learn as much as possible. Thanks.
2. Depends on exactly what you do. Although there are many claims, there are no long term studies to confirm. However, the answer is probably yes.
3. Again depends on what you do. Paying a certified shop to do all the labor, figure $3K - $4K. Before doing any work, however, you should have the 'wiggle test' done. If you have no significant valve guide wear, you have no problem (keeping in mind that if it is a very low mile car, you might want to check it again in 10K miles or so). A certified shop should be willing to do the wiggle test for well under $500 (the heads do not have to be removed).
4. The build month and year will be inside the driver's door jamb. FYI, generally speaking most 2011 model year cars will have been built in late 2010. Personally I would not put too much faith in GM's inspection statement, since they have failed to exactly identify the problem.
#34
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Jan 2009
Location: Pottsboro; Sometimes Dallas Texas
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St. Jude Donor '12
A couple questions from a newbie, please bear with me if these sound like dumb questions (or as one of my professors used to tell me, "There are no dumb questions, only dumb people") :
1. Does the "headwork" involved in preventing the "valve guide problem" void the 5-year drivetrain warranty, e.g. if I buy a used 2010 Z06 have the headwork done?
Yes, opening up the engine and doing any work to it voids the power train warranty in most cases.
2. Does the "headwork" essentially fix/prevent the problem close to 100% ? Or is it not that simple?
Generally, yes. Just to say that doing headwork prevents any issues is out there, depends how the car is used, but as a fix to the factory guide wear issue, there are not any failures I know of.
3. How much does the "headwork" cost, and can it be done somewhere in Southern California? If not, where could I take a Z06 to have this done by some people that will do a solid job ?
There are lots are good shops in Ca
4. In regards to the prior statement "There are so far no reports of a car with the issue past GM's stated Feb 2011 quality fix date in terms of cars with dropped valve issues." How do you tell if a given 2011 Z06 was produced before or after Feb 2011? Do you just pop open the hood or door and look at some sticker that says "Made in January 2011" ?
There have been reports of wear on post 02/11 LS7's.
I will be in the market later this year for a Z06 and am trying to learn as much as possible. Thanks.
1. Does the "headwork" involved in preventing the "valve guide problem" void the 5-year drivetrain warranty, e.g. if I buy a used 2010 Z06 have the headwork done?
Yes, opening up the engine and doing any work to it voids the power train warranty in most cases.
2. Does the "headwork" essentially fix/prevent the problem close to 100% ? Or is it not that simple?
Generally, yes. Just to say that doing headwork prevents any issues is out there, depends how the car is used, but as a fix to the factory guide wear issue, there are not any failures I know of.
3. How much does the "headwork" cost, and can it be done somewhere in Southern California? If not, where could I take a Z06 to have this done by some people that will do a solid job ?
There are lots are good shops in Ca
4. In regards to the prior statement "There are so far no reports of a car with the issue past GM's stated Feb 2011 quality fix date in terms of cars with dropped valve issues." How do you tell if a given 2011 Z06 was produced before or after Feb 2011? Do you just pop open the hood or door and look at some sticker that says "Made in January 2011" ?
There have been reports of wear on post 02/11 LS7's.
I will be in the market later this year for a Z06 and am trying to learn as much as possible. Thanks.
If you buy in warranty then you have no worries. I would have the heads/guides checked at least if I bought out of warranty. Less than 500 to have it done.
add: the engines build date is on a sticker on driver side front (engine), behind alt bracket. There is a alpha/numeric on a white sticker, the build date is coded in that number. Post it here and someone will tell you how to decode it.
Last edited by tim414; 02-02-2013 at 05:16 PM.
#35
Melting Slicks
I'd buy a certified 09 and just drive it. An 06 is a 6 year old car. Assuming you finance it will be 11 years old when its paid off. That's just too old for me.
#38
Melting Slicks
#40
A couple questions from a newbie, please bear with me if these sound like dumb questions (or as one of my professors used to tell me, "There are no dumb questions, only dumb people")
1. Does the "headwork" involved in preventing the "valve guide problem" void the 5-year drivetrain warranty, e.g. if I buy a used 2010 Z06 have the headwork done?
1. Does the "headwork" involved in preventing the "valve guide problem" void the 5-year drivetrain warranty, e.g. if I buy a used 2010 Z06 have the headwork done?
This practice has been going on since late 2005, and so far appears to be effective in preventing exhaust valve breakage episodes.
In fact, SoCal, and Texas, are arguably the two best places in the United States to be, if your intent is to be proactive with regard to this issue.
Cost is going to vary based on what you want done to your heads, "core" charges, if they apply, and who does the work. But a word of caution here. If you are interested in this type of work, and advice on it, then you are going to want to talk with people who either have actually had it done, or who actually do it, and take their advice.
This is a listing of some of the forum members who have had it done. It is arranged alphabetically and by state, U.S.Territory, and country.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...st-valves.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1583018767-post443.html
The best price I have seen, in your area, for the usual head work done to address the LS7 valve issue is $2,695.00 and that was offered here back in October by one of the forum vendors.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1582061981-post5.html
The price may have changed now however, but from time to time there is special pricing on this type of work in your area.
4. In regards to the prior statement "There are so far no reports of a car with the issue past GM's stated Feb 2011 quality fix date in terms of cars with dropped valve issues." How do you tell if a given 2011 Z06 was produced before or after Feb 2011? Do you just pop open the hood or door and look at some sticker that says "Made in January 2011"?
I will be in the market later this year for a Z06 and am trying to learn as much as possible. Thanks.
I will be in the market later this year for a Z06 and am trying to learn as much as possible. Thanks.
That said, you may want to know the engine build date, and the post will tell you how to determine that as well.
How to find your car's build month:
Look at the back of the driver's side door:
How to get your car's build date:
Email Betty@corvettemuseum.com with you VIN (at least that was the case when I got mine back in Feb 07).
How to get your engine’s build date:
Look up the engine number (instructions here) and then post it to the same thread and someone hopefully will respond with the engine build date, or calculate it yourself from this info:
The engine number looks like this 10zld xLDDDxYBB
The second digit is the line number (L).
The 3rd, 4th, and 5th number is the day of year (DDD).
The 7th number is the year (Y).
The last 2 numbers are the engine built of the day number (BB).
To turn the day-of-year number into a date you can use this link: http://www-air.larc.nasa.gov/tools/jday.htm
Does your car have the magnetic drain plugs?
If you search you will find lots on info on this, but I think it can be sumarized as:
- 2006 Z06 does not have magnetic drain plugs (except for maybe late build ones).
- 2007 Z06 has magnetic drain plugs
- 2008 Z06 has magnetic drain plugs until it was deleted from the build sometime in January 08.
Look at the back of the driver's side door:
How to get your car's build date:
Email Betty@corvettemuseum.com with you VIN (at least that was the case when I got mine back in Feb 07).
How to get your engine’s build date:
Look up the engine number (instructions here) and then post it to the same thread and someone hopefully will respond with the engine build date, or calculate it yourself from this info:
The engine number looks like this 10zld xLDDDxYBB
The second digit is the line number (L).
The 3rd, 4th, and 5th number is the day of year (DDD).
The 7th number is the year (Y).
The last 2 numbers are the engine built of the day number (BB).
To turn the day-of-year number into a date you can use this link: http://www-air.larc.nasa.gov/tools/jday.htm
Does your car have the magnetic drain plugs?
If you search you will find lots on info on this, but I think it can be sumarized as:
- 2006 Z06 does not have magnetic drain plugs (except for maybe late build ones).
- 2007 Z06 has magnetic drain plugs
- 2008 Z06 has magnetic drain plugs until it was deleted from the build sometime in January 08.
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 02-03-2013 at 12:17 AM.