Unreal

More power, means more heat, more stress. If a valve drops, piston breaks, etc then it can very easily be from headers in GM mind. Any time you exceed the factory power rating I would expect warranty issues on power train related items.

Flashing back to stock doesn't work if the car isn't running. Plus they can tell if it was flashed.

Uncle Meat

So you're from the camp that believes there's no way GM can tell if the ECM has been flashed back to stock? You also believe they have prove the mod is directly related to the failure? Magnason Moss Act ain't worth the paper it was written on. Unless you have deep pockets and time to litigate the MM act helps nobody.

U.M.

Unreal

MM says headers can't void warranty in whole, but it is easy for GM to prove that any aftermarket part that adds power exceeds the design limits of the parts. Now if they said the window motor wasn't covered because of headers it would work, but a valve dropping at an auto-x on an intake/header/tune car I wouldn't expect to be warrantied even if it was a maching error. Maybe the worn guide/valve would have made it past warranty if it wasn't for the mods.

Rupert pupkin

My friend had a mitsubishi evo x that the engine blew up bc of all the aftermarket parts he put in. Put that back to stock and reflashed the whole system. Go a whole new motor out of it. So yes it is possible. Of course manufacturer will make you run through hoops before any issues get taken care of.

Unreal

So if you commit fraud you can get a new motor? You could probably also rob someone of the money needed for the repair but it isn't exactly the best or legal way to do it.

0Cunningham Motorsports

well whatever you want to call it, but if gm itself determines they don't want to honor the warranty, no dealership will touch it the minute they run the vin. I would consider that void, until proven otherwise in court...

Uncle Meat

Just because Mitsubishi is incapable of determining whether an ECM was flashed back to stock after tuning doesn't mean it works the same way with a GM vehicle. There's been a long standing debate on whether GM can tell whether the ECM has been monkeyed with or not... plus as Unreal mentioned it's a pretty lame practice to boot.

U.M.

0MarylandSpeed

Also remember Kooks now has green cats that do not throw codes, so you may be able to go without a tune.

Call us for details in the sig if you are interested.

Corvettinator

Void means http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Void_contract, which means you couldn't go to court. You can always sue for a denied warranty claim, which is a remedy. Granted, you'd probably lose in the circs described here. But a void contract is one where there is no legal remedy, like an illegal drug sale "contract," where you obviously cannot walk into court and sue.

I realize this is a quixotic task, stopping the Internets from using the word improperly, but we all have our peeves.

And yeah, for those discussing it above, putting your car back to stock after the failure and making a warranty claim is arguably fraud.

Lots of good test questions arise in the threads.

IAALBNYLSDNROTALA (I Am A Lawyer But Not Your Lawyer So Do Not Rely On This As Legal Advice)

MyLS1Hauls

I have seen many instances over the years where powertrain warranties were voided by the installation of headers...For starters, it is illegal in all 50 states to remove the functioning catalytic converters, and install aftermarket ones...that alone can invalidate your warranty. If that's not enough, the effect of the headers on the reliability of the engine comes into play. The other is, if GM is asked to warranty a powertrain failure, they WILL request the dealer to read the PCM and see if the CVN numbers match what their records show they should be (checking for 100% stock tune). If they don't match, bye bye warranty. Sure, you can flash it back to stock, as they can't detect it (C6 PCMs don't record this like the Camaro/Duramax/Regal GS etc do), but that's being dishonest at best.

Pay to play has always been my motto. You mod the car, you are now on the hook for whatever happens to it. Now, if I install headers on a car, and the power window motor burns out, I would expect it to be repaired...but anything powertrain wise is on me.

u1arunit

FrankTank

Tampering with the cats is illegal to begin with as pointed out, that alone could be enough to not honor the warranty...after that GM can also claim the added power took the car (and the parts ) outside what they were designed to handle...bye bye warranty. It's that easy.

From what I am told by tuners, and several corvette techs is while you could erase an aftermarket tune and flash back to stock.. they (GM) can tell it was reflashed..and that will look awfully suspicious if it coincides with some kind of failure

GM has millions of dollars and lots of lawyers review information they put out re Warranties and the language in those documents..it's not as easy as just saying the MM act says you can't not honor my warranty

While you could probably fight them for denying warranty on something like the window motor or stereo , you probably won't win if the powertrain fails and you have headers. It's a risk each person needs to evaluate when doing mods.

u1arunit

We've heard this Many times. What we haven't heard is just how GM Can tell if it's been flashed back to stock. Until we can have a credible individual from GM step in and show us(none have) people will continue to think they can get away with it. Scare tactics just work on the Sheeple.

YMMV.. FYI.. I don't care either way as I'm out of warranty which is considered a joke any more anyway as GM couldn't give a rats *** to cover the failing LS7 motors that they KNOW are problematic.

MyLS1Hauls

I've seen how GM knows if the newer "Global A" vehicles have been flashed back to stock, but I've yet to see the E38 display this capability. IMO, thats just a fallacy.

It would however, look suspicious, if you had a blown engine, and your PCM has been reset (showing 0 miles since DTC clear). This gets set back whenever you flash the PCM. All vehicles show this. It's not a guarantee that you did anything, but could be an indicator.

Unreal

Simple as if break the motor and can't drive it, and reflash to stock. When they pull the codes all of the start up checks/codes/emissions stuff will all read not ready. That tells them the ECU was messed with. Now if it is just making a noise/etc and you flash back to stock and can put 100-400 miles on it for the ecu to get drive cycles in then they may never know. Hard to do that if a valve drops.

u1arunit

Good point. Same thing happens when you remove battery power from the ECM.

It really comes down to if you want to play you might have to pay.

One thing I would bet on.. With so many folks dropping valves like silverware at the family thanksgiving dinner I'm guessing more folks would try to get away with it. Unfortunately for these folks GM is the enemy. In lots of ways they're right.

JwT

The real fraud here is charging vette owners 14 thousand dollars to replace a motor with a known defect.

FrankTank

Yes and I am simply stating what I have been told by what I consider to be credible sources ...Techs that work on these cars daily for a living, as well as several reputable tuners that work in these systems/software day in and day out and know it like the back of their hands.

That's all.

At the end of the day, you pay to play... play at your own risk when it comes to warranty and modding the car

FrankTank

I didn't see this post when I posted above..

rabrooks

If you get headers you should consider a tune. If you have a claim and GM gets involved, they will require teh dealer to send the computer info to them for review. If you tune it and then flash it back, GM can still see that. All the legal mobojumbo allows them to decide how to handle the claim.

For what its worth. I have a great dealer with elite service status. My engine blew due to oil starvation with 41k miles. I had headers, tune, CAI, roll bar, DBA rotors etc. I got a new engine under warranty. I was upfront and very candid about the car. I didn't try to hide anything. I think the honesty paid off. However I consider myself one of the fortunate few.