mikymu

I post this on ZR1 section - will also post here since some of you have ceramic rotors fitted on your Z06 for reference

Back in 2009 I did a post about converting my 2007 Porsche GT3 RS ceramic rotors to GT3 Cup steel rotors - http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...onversion.html - because Porsche ceramic rotors did not stop my RS well on the track despite using the most aggressive Pagid motorsports racing pads.

When I was shopping for a Z06 carbon edition I was intrigue again by the ginormous brembo ceramic composite rotors that are basically the same one fitted on Ferrari 430 and 458 Challenge. I decided to give it another try. Here is video describing how these ceramic rotors are made ... trust me, with track use, ceramic does not last 60X longer than steel rotor as the video indicated lol



So, if it works on Ferrari challenge then it should be much better than the one found on my 7.1 GT3 RS right .... well, not really. After driving my Z06 hard for the past 1.5 years this is what I found out:

Street driving: brake really well and much improved initial bite than my 7.1 GT3 RS ceramic rotors. It's super quite and overall very happy with it. Replacement rotors are about $1400 each if you shop around which is a knock out bargain compare with what Porsche and Ferrari charge. Replacement OEM pads are still very expensive - about $1K a set made by textar which is basically a "mild" pagid brake pad



Track use: Again it is much improved from my 7.1 GT3 RS ceramic rotors. Instead of feeling like I am going to blow through the brake zone every time there are actually some decent bite - still not great. When I come to a high speed brake zone there are few milliseconds of absolutely nothing when I step on the brake then all of a sudden you feel the brake bite but still not enough then you REALLY have to apply tremendous amount of brake force to slow down the car and once you let go of the brake there are not much modulation as steel rotors.

I was not happy with my Z06 ceramic rotors but not horribly bad like the Porsche ceramic rotors so I decide to stick with it. Every brake zone with the Z06 is an adventure and one thing I noticed is that when you have two brake zones back to back in a short distance the brake pedal become solid HARD!? You had to literally stand on the brakes for the car to slow down - perfect example is between T10-T11 at Thunderhill. I always make sure to keep healthy distance when I approach another car through this section of the track just in case if I can't stop in time.

After mucking with OEM pads for 7-8 track events I had enough and decided to try endless ME20 compounds. It brake slightly better but all the flaws remains.

I decided to switch to some sort of steel rotors after I almost lost the car coming into high speed braking zone at Thunderhill - when I mistakenly try to modulate the brakes as if it was steel rotors and the car just barrel ahead. The perfect analogy to describe ceramic rotors on the track is like trying to operate a defective ON/Off light switch. You had to toggle the switch back and fourth hard then it will turn on where as steel rotors are like a dimmer switch. You can modulate the brakes and control it with brake pedal force. Imagine your basketball shoes behave like ceramic rotors - you will be sliding all over the court and worst fumble your dribble and fall flat on your face when your shoes make you stop abruptly and let go without warning

OK, after much research comparing cost and rotor material I decided to try RB performance brakes . Warren from RB was very helpful in explaining their two piece rotors manufacture process which include heat treated iron rotors that are suited for track use with unique bolt pattern that ensure even distribution of force on both sides of the rotors back by warranty - I have seen some other after market manufacturer not backing their product when their rotors crack with track use.

Here are some description of their unique two piece rotor technology ... I like anything with technology
http://www.racingbrake.com/v/main/technology.asp


The conversion was just fantastic! It was easy to swap the rotors and everything fit like OEM and OMG ... I actually got real brake modulation back again as demonstrated by video below

I use the same endless ME20 brake pads ( with very little pad material left) so I get a clear comparison and the only variable is the rotor material. I feel brake bite the very moment my foot touch the brake pedal and I can modulate the brakes and the brake pedal remain responsive even between short brake zones like T10-T11 at Thunderhill.

Conclusion: Ceramic composite rotors is a great technology and we can all use less rotational mass for better performance. Where it stand now the technology is OK for street use but it still has alot of catch up to do for track use. The cost is coming down but not to the point that we can use crazy abrasive brake pads like F1 or prototype to achieve adequate brake modulation



Here is a detail DIY for reference

Massive OEM brembo 394 mm front and 380 rear ceramic rotors





RB two piece open slot iron rotors



front side





back side





quick check on the attachment bolts and every single one is securely torque from factory



Couple close up shots of their unique design and bolt pattern





you need to remove the brake calipers by first remove the retaining pins - just tap them out





pretty worn out front endless ME20 brake pads and did not last much longer than OEM - these have about 7-8 track events





compare with OEM with same amount of track use





removal of the two large caliper bolts - I think they were 21mm and thread lock on the bolts from factory really made it hard!





torque spec - 129 lb ft! to secure the bolts



off goes the caliper and make sure to support it



front rotors side by side comparison - RB steel rotors is 390x36mm compare with OEM 394x36mm





back side



ceramic rotor weigh 5880g (12.96 lbs) which exceed the minimum weigh etch on the hat - 5830g



vs RB steel rotor 28.05 lbs - 15 lbs weight gain ... it's worth it



Thickness is also good and exceed minimum thickness



clean up the wheel hub to receive the RB steel rotor and install the caliper



perfect fit





we got real brakes!!



Now the rear rotors - pretty much the same procedure as front - same large 21mm bolts secure brake caliper that calls for 129 lb ft to tighten the bolts





rear brake pads are still pretty thick





much like OEM after about 7-8 track events





rear wheel hub with parking brake pads



rear rotors have the same same diameter 380 mm but steel rotor is 2 mm thinner - 32 vs 34 mm





rear ceramic rotor weigh 7325g (16.15 lbs) which is way above minimum weigh



vs RB steel rear rotor 22.09 lbs - about 6 lbs weight gain.



you have to reduce the rear parking brake pads diameter to fit the RB steel rotor by rotating the brake pad adjuster - you may need to press down on the spring retainer at the teeth to make rotating the adjuster easier





install RB rotor and brake caliper





All set front and back - now we got functional rotors that will deliver on the track!



Confidence at the braking zones is priceless - especially short brake zones between T10-T11 at Thunderhill shown below

with practice I will be able to properly modulate the brakes and gain valuable time at each brake zones

wolf8218

Great writeup, Mikey. I saw that, since your last setup, you have installed a set of coilovers. I saw the reservoir so I can only imagine the cost.

I know that you haven't had the chance to compare with the same car, but do you believe that the 394mm size will have a noticeable improvement in braking performance versus the 380mm size (common Brembo kit size)? I ask because I am considering the purchase of a Brembo kit or similar for track use like yourself.

Thanks for any feedback.

LFZ

What is it exactly that makes the carbon ceramic rotors so lackluster on the track compared to iron steel? I ask, because you are not the first person I have seen switch from lightweight, expensive carbon ceramics to heavier steel rotors for track use.



*always enjoy your detailed threads btw, but disappointed there is no exceptionally talented girls posted like your other threads....

JwT

Wow!! Great write up. I've considered selling blood, other body fluids and the ex-wife to obtain carbon ceramic brakes but now( even though I have to many miles to track) I think I'll pass. No one has ever had anything but walk on water comments concerning these brakes. It just goes to show that super expensive parts, may not be so super. Thanks for letting folks know.

Stage7

Great writeup as always. Your attention to detail is impressive.

I can only assume that RB has improved their product from their last foray as a corvetteforum vendor. It wasn't pretty.

I'm anxious to see how these work out for you. RB offers rotors for my Cayenne TTS and I will be needing them in the next year or so. They do look nice.

FSTFRC

Excellent right up mikymu, thanks for taking the time to do the write up!

phipp85

Thanks for the very detailed thread!

I'm very curious as to how many days those rotors will last before cracking.

BgBoost1

Great write up. Are your factory rotors for sale by chance?

Sled Driver

Interesting writeup. Thanks for the insight. Carbon ceramic rotors are way out of my budget, so it's good to know that maybe I'm not leaving as much on the table as I had thought.

That's also probably the cleanest racecar I've ever seen. You could eat off that suspension! The best I can ever do is knock the top layer of the crud off.

DaOtherOne

2k Cobra

Great info!

Very nice hot rod...

Thanks a million for posting, 2k

mikymu

I have Ohlin coilover now. had to make the switch because stock springs are too soft to handle Pfadt heavy sways

IMHO 380 mm will do just fine. Brake pad material is much more important than size of rotors

lol

sorry to disappoint. It's too cold to get girls to post pictures with my Z06

Ceramic rotors need alot of heat to generated necessary brake torque to stop the car so initial bite when rotors are cold is none existence. F1 and prototype race cars use super aggressive brake pads to help improve initial bite and modulation but you and I can never afford the rotor replacement frequency

yes, stick with steel rotors - they are the best option at this time

Thanks

Thanks

Time will tell and Warren at RB as assured me they will back up the rotors if there is any issue

Nope, keeping them for paper weight

lol

cheers

mikymu

thanks for the kind words

tim414

As always, GREAT post Miky.



Tim

mikymu

thanks Tim

cavlino

A bit late to the party, I made it over here since your thread was ref on FChat. Thanks for the details, I will look into them to see if they would fit a 2004 Challenge Stradale.

CGZO6

Why no spindle cooling ducts on the front rotors?

mikymu

That will be an interesting fit

I still have the stock brake cooling duct

rsalco

I guess the real question is whether your lap times improve with the steel over the composite. I also point out that the hard pedal symptom you've experienced can be caused by a glitch in the ABS system. There are threads here and elsewhere discussing that issue. Porsche had the problem and others have noted it in 'Vettes and Camaros used on the track. But you'll know soon enough when your first track day of the season comes 'round.

Phoenix1911

Great writeup! I'd be curious to know how many track days or sessions those RB rotors costs, I've seen writeups on longevity of OEM vs. wilwood vs. DBA etc but not RB.

I'm also curious about ball park rotor costs per corner, hat+ring and just ring replacement.