[Z06] Programming Tire Revs ABS
Thread Starter
Max G’s
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,751
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From: Monroe OH
NCM Sinkhole Donor
Programming Tire Revs ABS
I did a search and went through 428 threads and cannot find the answer. Can the tire revs be changed in the computer that controls ABS? I find it hard to believe that this parameter could not be accessed and changed. We do it frequently for commercial trucks through the engine ecm. ???
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,656
Likes: 635
From: Dallas TX
You can only change a single value to rev's per mile, not front and rear. From what I know the front and rear difference is still looking for the ~1.2% difference from the factory stagger numbers. And thats NOT in the ABS computer, thats just in the main ECU programming.
My tuner changed the value based on my rear 345/30/19's in an attempt to get rid of the "drag control active" message, but it didnt do anything.
My tuner changed the value based on my rear 345/30/19's in an attempt to get rid of the "drag control active" message, but it didnt do anything.
Thread Starter
Max G’s
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,751
Likes: 79
From: Monroe OH
NCM Sinkhole Donor
I calculated the difference from the factory stagger from front to back. And what I may want to switch to is @ 1" more difference in stagger than stock. There has to be a way to reprogram the tire revs.
I deactivate the Traction Control and Active Handling but I do like to keep the abs active.
The car is going to be used to mainly autox. My C4 never had traction control but did have abs. I tested the Z with the Active Handling on Track Mode 2 but that doesn't work. It may in puddling water but not in the dry.
I deactivate the Traction Control and Active Handling but I do like to keep the abs active.
The car is going to be used to mainly autox. My C4 never had traction control but did have abs. I tested the Z with the Active Handling on Track Mode 2 but that doesn't work. It may in puddling water but not in the dry.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 41,063
Likes: 9,825
From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
I did a search and went through 428 threads and cannot find the answer. Can the tire revs be changed in the computer that controls ABS? I find it hard to believe that this parameter could not be accessed and changed. We do it frequently for commercial trucks through the engine ecm. ???
The wheel speed signals are hard wired to the EBCM and the EBCM communicates with the ECM through the GM LAN. Communication with the ECM is limited to Request for Torque sent to the ECM, Torque provided sent to the EBCM and a failure message from the ECM to the EBCM if the ECM can't provide the torque the EBCM requests. The EBCM does everything else.
A tuner can't do anything with ABS, Traction Control or Stability Control. They may be able to do something to change how the ECM responds to the torque request but they can't shut off the brake intervention if the EBCM decides the rear wheels are spinning to fast.
Bill
Thread Starter
Max G’s
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,751
Likes: 79
From: Monroe OH
NCM Sinkhole Donor
NO. That is all controlled by the EBCM. The ECM doesn't get any wheel speed data. It only gets Vehicle Speed Data.
The wheel speed signals are hard wired to the EBCM and the EBCM communicates with the ECM through the GM LAN. Communication with the ECM is limited to Request for Torque sent to the ECM, Torque provided sent to the EBCM and a failure message from the ECM to the EBCM if the ECM can't provide the torque the EBCM requests. The EBCM does everything else.
A tuner can't do anything with ABS, Traction Control or Stability Control. They may be able to do something to change how the ECM responds to the torque request but they can't shut off the brake intervention if the EBCM decides the rear wheels are spinning to fast.
Bill
The wheel speed signals are hard wired to the EBCM and the EBCM communicates with the ECM through the GM LAN. Communication with the ECM is limited to Request for Torque sent to the ECM, Torque provided sent to the EBCM and a failure message from the ECM to the EBCM if the ECM can't provide the torque the EBCM requests. The EBCM does everything else.
A tuner can't do anything with ABS, Traction Control or Stability Control. They may be able to do something to change how the ECM responds to the torque request but they can't shut off the brake intervention if the EBCM decides the rear wheels are spinning to fast.
Bill
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Thread Starter
Max G’s
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,751
Likes: 79
From: Monroe OH
NCM Sinkhole Donor
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,633
Likes: 135
My Saturday lunch buddy is the IT guy for the company that manufactures all this stuff for multiple auto manufacturers (yep, they built the ignition,and clutch switches that got everyone in trouble..BUT..they were built to someone else's spec.) Only stuff that is stored on a eprom or eeprom can be changed. If the parameters for ABS are fixed on a straight prom you are S.O.O.L.
I have not looked at the innards of a BCM but would expect to find all surface mount technology which further complicates stuff as the prom is probably soldered directly to the board that is most likely sealed with resin. Many times that resin is colored so you can't even see the components on the board.
I have not looked at the innards of a BCM but would expect to find all surface mount technology which further complicates stuff as the prom is probably soldered directly to the board that is most likely sealed with resin. Many times that resin is colored so you can't even see the components on the board.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
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From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Yes, there are programmers available for the engineers to use but not available to tuners. Even if a person was able to gain access there more than likely is no open source information available to tell them what parameters to change or to tell them what happens when those parameters are changed.
The only thing the Body Control Module (BCM) does is receive the ground signal from the switch on the console and then transmit the state of that switch over the Ethernet to the EBCM which decides what to do with the information.
Bill
Last edited by Bill Dearborn; Nov 5, 2016 at 12:53 PM.
Thread Starter
Max G’s
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,751
Likes: 79
From: Monroe OH
NCM Sinkhole Donor
The Electronic Brake Control Module (EBCM) for 05-08 models was made by Delphi and the one for the 09-2013 models was made by Bosch. The EBCM controls the ABS, TC and AH.
Yes, there are programmers available for the engineers to use but not available to tuners. Even if a person was able to gain access there more than likely is no open source information available to tell them what parameters to change or to tell them what happens when those parameters are changed.
The only thing the Body Control Module (BCM) does is receive the ground signal from the switch on the console and then transmit the state of that switch over the Ethernet to the EBCM which decides what to do with the information.
Bill
Yes, there are programmers available for the engineers to use but not available to tuners. Even if a person was able to gain access there more than likely is no open source information available to tell them what parameters to change or to tell them what happens when those parameters are changed.
The only thing the Body Control Module (BCM) does is receive the ground signal from the switch on the console and then transmit the state of that switch over the Ethernet to the EBCM which decides what to do with the information.
Bill
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,656
Likes: 635
From: Dallas TX
My question is why deviate so much from the tried and true combo's that tons of guys have run for years and that work very well and there are several options? Why "reinvent the wheel" so to speak?
Thread Starter
Max G’s
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,751
Likes: 79
From: Monroe OH
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What combo do you think is so great?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,656
Likes: 635
From: Dallas TX
Are you stuck on 200tw? And if so why? What do you think it gives you?
I think there are 3 tires guys are running right now that are available in stock sizes as well as wider front and rear to keep the stagger in check. These are probably the 3 most popular tires choices for our cars from everything I can find.
MPSS
Invo's
R888
Dont let the tread wear rating on the MPSS fool you into thinking its not a sticky tire. The compound is a newer generation than a lot of other tires and it can hold the high TW rating while still providing killer traction. I think they are 300TW where as the Invo's are 220, but the MPSS destroys the Invo on traction. R888 are going to be a killer dry tire, but only 7-9k miles tire life and if you need wet traction, look to the MPSS. Local guy with ~1100whp likes them better than his NT05R's he was running as far as putting power down, but again, low tire life @ 100TW(i think they are 100, might be 80).
I think there are 3 tires guys are running right now that are available in stock sizes as well as wider front and rear to keep the stagger in check. These are probably the 3 most popular tires choices for our cars from everything I can find.
MPSS
Invo's
R888
Dont let the tread wear rating on the MPSS fool you into thinking its not a sticky tire. The compound is a newer generation than a lot of other tires and it can hold the high TW rating while still providing killer traction. I think they are 300TW where as the Invo's are 220, but the MPSS destroys the Invo on traction. R888 are going to be a killer dry tire, but only 7-9k miles tire life and if you need wet traction, look to the MPSS. Local guy with ~1100whp likes them better than his NT05R's he was running as far as putting power down, but again, low tire life @ 100TW(i think they are 100, might be 80).
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,763
Likes: 502
The Electronic Brake Control Module (EBCM) for 05-08 models was made by Delphi and the one for the 09-2013 models was made by Bosch. The EBCM controls the ABS, TC and AH.
Yes, there are programmers available for the engineers to use but not available to tuners. Even if a person was able to gain access there more than likely is no open source information available to tell them what parameters to change or to tell them what happens when those parameters are changed.
The only thing the Body Control Module (BCM) does is receive the ground signal from the switch on the console and then transmit the state of that switch over the Ethernet to the EBCM which decides what to do with the information.
Bill
Yes, there are programmers available for the engineers to use but not available to tuners. Even if a person was able to gain access there more than likely is no open source information available to tell them what parameters to change or to tell them what happens when those parameters are changed.
The only thing the Body Control Module (BCM) does is receive the ground signal from the switch on the console and then transmit the state of that switch over the Ethernet to the EBCM which decides what to do with the information.
Bill
Instead of trying to reprogram the computer for non stock tire staggers, what about changing the physical location of the pickup point or tone ring size to achieve the desired results and fool the computer into thinking you have stock stagger ratios?
I'm trying to figure out how to run a square setup on a C5 Z06 without ice mode kicking in. Right now, I believe the only way to defeat ice mode is to disable the anti lock brake system.
Any thoughts?
Cheers
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I tried to do this when I put 345s on my car as I kept getting the engine braking message when I downshifted.....eventually it just stopped
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2014
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Bill,
Instead of trying to reprogram the computer for non stock tire staggers, what about changing the physical location of the pickup point or tone ring size to achieve the desired results and fool the computer into thinking you have stock stagger ratios?
I'm trying to figure out how to run a square setup on a C5 Z06 without ice mode kicking in. Right now, I believe the only way to defeat ice mode is to disable the anti lock brake system.
Any thoughts?
Cheers
Instead of trying to reprogram the computer for non stock tire staggers, what about changing the physical location of the pickup point or tone ring size to achieve the desired results and fool the computer into thinking you have stock stagger ratios?
I'm trying to figure out how to run a square setup on a C5 Z06 without ice mode kicking in. Right now, I believe the only way to defeat ice mode is to disable the anti lock brake system.
Any thoughts?
Cheers
Thread Starter
Max G’s
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,751
Likes: 79
From: Monroe OH
NCM Sinkhole Donor
Are you stuck on 200tw? And if so why? What do you think it gives you?
I think there are 3 tires guys are running right now that are available in stock sizes as well as wider front and rear to keep the stagger in check. These are probably the 3 most popular tires choices for our cars from everything I can find.
MPSS
Invo's
R888
Dont let the tread wear rating on the MPSS fool you into thinking its not a sticky tire. The compound is a newer generation than a lot of other tires and it can hold the high TW rating while still providing killer traction. I think they are 300TW where as the Invo's are 220, but the MPSS destroys the Invo on traction. R888 are going to be a killer dry tire, but only 7-9k miles tire life and if you need wet traction, look to the MPSS. Local guy with ~1100whp likes them better than his NT05R's he was running as far as putting power down, but again, low tire life @ 100TW(i think they are 100, might be 80).
I think there are 3 tires guys are running right now that are available in stock sizes as well as wider front and rear to keep the stagger in check. These are probably the 3 most popular tires choices for our cars from everything I can find.
MPSS
Invo's
R888
Dont let the tread wear rating on the MPSS fool you into thinking its not a sticky tire. The compound is a newer generation than a lot of other tires and it can hold the high TW rating while still providing killer traction. I think they are 300TW where as the Invo's are 220, but the MPSS destroys the Invo on traction. R888 are going to be a killer dry tire, but only 7-9k miles tire life and if you need wet traction, look to the MPSS. Local guy with ~1100whp likes them better than his NT05R's he was running as far as putting power down, but again, low tire life @ 100TW(i think they are 100, might be 80).
For the street, the tires you mentioned would be good. The Michelin is a great street tire too. But, I'm not in the market for a street tire.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,656
Likes: 635
From: Dallas TX
This Z is going to be running CAMS in SCCA Autox. We have to run a minimum 200tw tire. None of the tires you mention will be able to compete at most regional levels and definitely not on the national level. I put some new Michelin Pilot SS recently to test. The durometer reading on the MPSS is in low 70's whereas the Rival S is in the low 60's and they heat up better. The faster the tire heats up the quicker you get it into its optimum grip; usually 120 to 150 degrees.
For the street, the tires you mentioned would be good. The Michelin is a great street tire too. But, I'm not in the market for a street tire.
For the street, the tires you mentioned would be good. The Michelin is a great street tire too. But, I'm not in the market for a street tire.
Good luck in your racing venture. Im sure somebody will come along that has run in that series and will be able to help you with tire choice.