Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Guys,

Just thought I would share some recent independent validation about the effectiveness of my new MMS 265 cylinder heads and what they are capable of with a well thought out package to optimize and compliment them. Like most of you I have worked with (and am currently working with) the cast of characters is very similar.

The nice thing about this particular situation is we have a before and after result on the same dyno.....the baseline numbers on this dyno are very much what most would agree are average (considering the baseline mods).....the final results what most would agree are a good deal better than average with an extremely sexy power and torque curve that makes huge power very early (6300 ish) and carries really well to 7K or so....you don't have to wring out the RPM's to get to the jump to lightspeed part of the power curve....one of the big benefits of my (more efficient) high flow/high speed port design (moving large amounts of air thru a very conservative runner size).

I will let my "mystery client" share a little more of the story himself by simply copying and pasting an email I received from him recently (he wants to stay Stealth for awhile to beat up on some unsuspecting locals....LOL)

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Hey Tony hope all is well.

I wanted to follow up with the results of the build you helped me with a few months back and thank you for the killer combination.

Dyno sheet shows base line which is basic bolr ins - rps clutch, ported TB, Halltech 112 intake and 1.88 arh headers. So it truly shows what your parts have brought to table. Other two pulls are e10 and ~e70 respectfully.

Car runs great and I'm super stoked with how the torque curve is literally a table top of power that carries forever. It is an animal on street and I'm very excited to see what it will do on track with a proper drag pack.

For comparison there is a local guy who made 628/535 with more parts on same dyno. LLSR build cam motion - e85 -allpro 280 heads, electric water pump and everything else the same.

Cheers!
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His baseline of 501 RWHP and 473 RWTQ seems completely legit with his lightweight RPS clutch, ARH headers, Halltech intake, ported TB, and a tune....in fact I would argue the dyno numbers might be on the stingy side if anything, but they are certainly in line. Here is the dyno overlay of the before and after results taking his previously mentioned baseline and adding my MMS 265 heads, a custom cam I spec'ed for him (not crazy big...245/259 duration), my MMS/Yella Terra roller rockers, Johnson lifters, and of course one of my ported MSD intakes as well to top things off




The area under the curve gains are just as impressive (if not more impressive) than the gains in peak power and torque....and I previously mentioned there is BIG power available extremely early (crosses 600 RWHP at 5600 RPM's!) and it doesn't lay down upstairs at all either.

Full disclosure....he did opt for me to install custom titanium intake valves and lightweight hollow stem exhaust valves and he also opted to have me enlarge the exhaust port and completely hand finish them for a little more flow on the exhaust side. What's all that really worth here....my best guess is 6-12 RWHP. I would be surprised if it was less than that and just as surprised if it was more than that. If you guys have seen some of my other results posted with my lightweight hollow stem steel valves there is no signs of valvefloat at all in those other dyno curves and the lighter valves really aren't doing a whole lot here at the usable RPM this combination features (besides extending spring life a bit due to them controlling less mass). You may get a few ponies from "absolute perfection" in valve control due to the lighter weight but its not much.....the added exhaust work is worth is likely worth more in real world gains than the lighter valves. With an intake port that flows 410 CFM anything you can do to improve the exhaust flow will pay you some dividends when you hit the dyno.

This was a 93 octane build btw so I did crank some decent compression in this build (12.0 to 1), but my hand finished chambers also allow for more static compression with less risk of detonation so that's not really that aggressive. I need to post a picture up at some point in this thread so you guys can better appreciate that

Also...important to add the dyno overlay posted above was both running E70 fuel (baseline and final results with the Mamo package) so they both had the ability to add as much timing as the engine wanted with no worry of detonation. With a slightly softer tune up however on (almost) straight 93 octane we still achieved 652 RWHP and about 10 RWTQ less than the E70 run. Here is the softer tune-up 93 octane run with both of the others for comparison




Sorry for the long post....lots of good stuff going on here and I wanted you guys to have as much information as possible. Im sure I might have missed a few details but I think I covered all the big stuff at this point. I have a handful of other combo's about to hit the dyno soon as well...some with much more conservative cam timing so it will be interesting to see what some of those cars do as well.

Catch you guys later!



Cheers,
Tony

JShort

Awesome job as always Tony!

Da Z06

Very, very nice!

Stock short block?

Silver Bullet C6

WOW, extremely impressive power! I was watching a Brian Tooley interview on how much more power can be made thru heads vs relying on just a larger cam. He said great heads have a lot more potential to make power than a large cam...clearly your results here show great manifold, heads, and cam all working together. DAMN impressive.

njk4o5

damn that's some serious N/A power

lt1z

strong

Jayfabs

Not sure why but this post makes me very excited. Can't wait!!

Navy Blue 210

Matt,
Restrain Yourself Please!
LOL

Stang's Bane

This is what interests me.
" I have a handful of other combo's about to hit the dyno soon as well...some with much more conservative cam timing so it will be interesting to see what some of those cars do as well.

How small can you go on a cam and still make it over 600 rwhp on a SBE LS7.

Can't wait to see the results

Unreal

Stock TB too, so that is impressive.

Its looking like the MMS TFS heads are quickly becoming the champ of high performane NA setups.

Navy Blue 210

i would not be surprised to see ~11.5:1 Comp with
~234*/246* .620"/.610" 114*+3* Eclipse 600 RWHP
with MMS LS7,MSD,RPS, & 1 7/8 LTs on a SBE LS7.

Navy Blue 210

I Believe,
"The Verdict is In"

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Guys,

Thanks for all the positive comments etc.

And yes....the question above is the million dollar question but every combo (not to mention dyno) is going to be slightly different.

Clearly with the advancement in the efficiency of the heads and the manifolds Im working on lately (assuming you don't drop the ball on the rest of the important items such as all the good valvetrain components), 600 RWHP with a cam that is easily mild enough to be used as a daily driver is pretty much a lay up.

One of the rather large perks about my stuff is it's alot more resistant to the typical negative trade-offs associated with larger cams with more overlap (reversion, surging, bucking, etc.). My higher speed port designs allow you to run more cam timing without the typical negative trade offs attached....a ported OEM head that has a port 15-20 cc's larger and flow 15 - 20 CFM less is alot less efficient, has alot less airspeed in the ports, and is much more sensitive to overlap and reversion issues.

Take the same combination like this one for instance which has a fair bit of overlap (24' in this combination)....an OEM ported head would likely have a good bit of surging and bucking going on at lower RPM's unless the tune was pitch perfect but with the higher speed design of my MMS 265 its alot smoother.....you can pull much lower RPM on the freeway without any protesting at all because its physics working in your favor. The more overlap you have the larger your chances are of dealing with reversion. Reversion is when the intake charge is going the wrong direction and backing up in the manifold at lower engine speeds causing the engine not to run as effectively. A cylinder head with a more efficient port design that has alot higher airspeed is going to be effected alot less because its harder to reverse the direction of a faster column of air that has more inertia moving in the direction we want it to be going (and filling the cylinder more making more power at the same time for a win-win situation!). Its alot easier for a slower speed column of air to reverse direction and start to back up into the manifold. Hope you guys can follow this....its an important concept to grasp and one of the perks of getting into any cylinder head that's more efficient than others you might be considering. This isn't related just to this platform....we could be talking about any engine platform and the same rules apply

The long point Im making is with my heads you can get away with more camshaft so your not forced to go as small and have a combination that's still enjoyable to drive on the street....and naturally the larger cam will certainly bring bigger peak numbers to the table while still driving well enough that you don't have "big cam regret" six months down the line!

I drove one of my customers cars about six months back that made 640+ on a really stingy dyno (it was a C6Z H/C record on that dyno btw).....very similar combo to this one featured here and that cam was slightly larger (26' of overlap).....I was amazed how well it drove. It pulled 6th gear on the freeway at 1300 RPM with no issues which is a big accomplishment for this size cam. Of course a good tune is required and that was handled by Matt Gower (GP Tuning) who knows the ropes about dialing in most of the hot GM set-ups. Matt at the time commented on how well the car drove and it was one of the earlier MMS 265 builds so it was all relatively new at the time.

If your interested to read more about it it was a good thread also.....here is the link. In fact looking at the power and torque curves its really cool how similar they are

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...d-install.html

Anyway....alot more stuff on the way. Im sure in the next few months you guys will have the opportunity to see small cams, medium sized cams and more aggressive builds such as this one. Josh Bauer has the most aggressive version so for with his "Hot for teacher" 454 build.....LOL....so you guys who have been thinking about pulling the trigger will have a whole bunch of various data points to choose from in the next couple of months. Just plan ahead though as none of these detailed builds happen quickly. Six to eight weeks waiting on me....time to properly install it all....tune it all etc.....it takes months to do this right but the end results more than justify the time and the money spent as this kind of power in a 3100 lb ride is bonafide super/hyper car territory for a fraction of the dollars spent. Not too many N/A cars are capable of 140+ trap speeds and this kind of power in a C6Z is easily 140+ with a competent driver.....low mid 140's with a good driver in good air!!





Cheers
Tony

Brandon619

Great job Tony, I'm interested in seeing your Silver Z06 completed

double06

Very impressive, with another 100 hp to go pass the 5252 rpm cross over mark.

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

ME TOO.....LOL

I do have some special plans for that build now. Its going to be a pretty sweet (aka expensive) build. I have to step it up a bit and do something really special for that car. Also I want to baseline it on my dyno first which means my dyno cell needs to be completed and so the snowball rolls. Seeing these kinds of results kills me in some respects as its just a reminder of what I'm missing....that's why when the time comes I'm swinging for the fences....LOL



Hoping 2018.....its certainly not happening this year but if my dyno cell is making progress this year that would still put a smile on my face!

Regards,
Tony

Racingswh

Good work Tony! The more I see like this the more excited I get. For my application a torque curve like that will work very well.

Steve Hoagland

Brandon619

I can't wait until you complete that dyno cell, I'll drive up to see that! Keep up the good work Tony!

FNBADAZ06

Awesome !!!

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Steve,

Due to a smaller cam and an earlier intake closing point, your combo will get up on the torque curve a good bit sooner and also tail away a little earlier but it will be just as flat....it just moves everything to the left a bit which is better for a road race application for blasting off the corners!!



-Tony