thegame

I spoke to a few shops on the phone today. I have a 15 Z51 A8 with the following mods.

AFE intake
American Racing Longtube headers w high flow cats
ECS dyno tune

I can't find my dyno sheet but I remember the car made about 440rwhp on a very hot and humid day. I was looking for a little more power about 50rwhp or so and thought a nice cam kit would do the trick. I found a nice one from vengeance with everything I need it's around 2k. I was set to go this route but after pricing out labor at a few shops apparently it's a pretty big job. At least another 2k in labor or maybe more. By the time this is all said and done maybe a ECS 1500 installed/tuned around 550rwhp is a better idea.

My question is I really want something low maintenance and reliable. I do not want meth or to deal with buying/storing. Would you guys hesitate to do the ECS kit without meth on low boost or only meth and blower?? Again I am not looking to build a monster. Little more kick than what I have now is perfect for me

JTMmotorsports

We've done a few of them, with the good results. last 15 with an A8 made 550 WHP.

thegame

Any longterm concerns at low boost level?? Obviously in the future if I ever want to turn up the wick I'd have to go meth and maybe a fuel system and so on. I just want to know if doing just the kit is safe.

JTMmotorsports

Just doing the kit on low boost is totally safe. We use the meth at higher boost levels. we just did a 2015 with 11#'s and meth and it made 668RWhp on out mustang dyno..

thegame

totally safe, i like the sound of that!! Thanks JTM

C7&7

C7BB here on the forum made 690's with 9 psi cam with larger fuel lobe and headers. No meth.

He has since added the alky kit and made 750s.

I had my car at 7psi without meth for a little while and it made 580s. Runs 8.8 psi now with cam, meth, LT4 pump and made 702. Id say anything over 9psi should have meth.

StingerBG

I've seen many ECS, Procharger, and A&A kits out there without meth! And most are pushing 550-600whp. When tuned correctly, it is just as safe to run it without meth on a lower psi as it is to run with meth at a higher psi. In fact, if you're just looking to get into the upper 500's...then there is no need for meth unless you just want it to help keep the valves clean and keep IAT's down (and maybe just an extra precaution for fueling). Standard 91-93 octane fuel on the stock system would supply more than enough octane to support 550whp. I personally fought whether or not to go with meth for a while. Ultimately I've decided that when I do it, to just go ECS, ARH headers w/high flow cats, plugs and a tune (all by Vengeance) since most people breaking the 600whp mark are having traction issues as it is...so there's no need to go much higher for simple street use!

C7BB

100% agree! It's not a big deal as long as the tune is good! I didn't experience any ill effects of not running meth...

T/A KID

I'm currently running around a 60% blend of E85 with the lt4 hardware and wanting to push a little more power...
Probably end up doing a little meth myself...
I can make my own kit for about $200 with braided line

Frans96ss

Up to 10psi or so its fine with no meth.

DOUG @ ECS

Most of the installs we do are not with meth, our kit will max out the fuel system with 8-9 lbs of boost in the 600 RWHP range but I personally do not like to see above 550/575 RWHP without meth. Yours being closer to the 550 since your car is an auto.

I am an advocate for meth for several reasons though, I would not have a blower on my own car without it. Valve cleaning, octane, more power, IAT's etc, but you have been down this road before and know what to expect.

I'm actually surprised you waited this long Chris.

Higgs Boson

this is a little misleading.....10psi on a stock engine, i agree. but if you have a modified engine, maybe not.

my kit is putting out about 10psi and over 900 rwhp, not ok without meth!

what I am saying is, boost is not the criteria, it's airflow (or HP depending what side you are looking from). anything 600rwhp and up you need meth. You can make a little more than that but your injector pulse width will be rising trying to keep up and that's a gray area you don't want to play in.

the bottom line is if your injector pulse width goes over 5.5ms at wot, you're done. get meth, it pays.

C7BB

As always, your technical side comes out... That's good stuff right there, I've never heard this before. I ran no meth at 700whp and had no ill effects, I guess ignorance is bliss?!?!? I'm still of the adage that the tune is also critical.

Silverboost

I'm at 715 rwhp with no meth at 15 psi with a cam, 10.5.1 forged pistons and 2" headers. My iats were screaming high so I changed intercoolers. With the new intercooler it has dropped my iats drastically but I have not had a chance to get it retuned yet. Im looking for 750 rwhp with no meth. I guess I will find out in two weeks when it hits the dyno.

Translator

Which intercooler did you switch to?

Silverboost

I switched to a vertical Procharger intercooler. My iats dropped 100° on 3rd gear highway pulls. In my opinion most everyone pushing 650 + rwhp is using meth so they don't notice the inefficiencies of the smaller intercoolers. I had my end tanks modified on my old intercooler which helped but the bigger core and vertical setup on the Procharger intercooler was the ticket for a no meth build.

Higgs Boson

what is your injector pulse width, spark lead, and SOI timing at wot? make sure they log/tell you those things when you dyno it. it's important.

c6switchblade

Higgs is absolutely correct, and has infact been helping me get my car dialed in with a few new parts. As many of you may know, I am still on a completely stock engine (no lt4 equipment, stock cam) with just a lash cap. With every trick in the book i was still running out of fuel with two methanol nozzles (15 and 10 gallon per hour). Just stepped up to even more as it was running out of fuel at 5900rpms on a cold day. Keeping those duty cycles in check is the most important thing to push the limit on these cars fuel systems....even more so without methanol. If this is not logged and strictly Afr is logged during tuning, you are truly playing with fire. You may even get good Afr readings from the wideband due to how the fuel is commanded and injected/unburned at high duty cycles but you are severely overloading the injectors. Anything over 30-32% duty cycle and you're done.

Also, I can 100% agree with the intercooler dilemma. Once you start leaning on these blowers they do make some heat and the horizontal orientation does not work well. Last summer I was getting 140 to 150 degree iats WITH methanol. I changed the orientation of the ECS intercooler to vertical and my iats stay 15-30 degrees below ambient with methanol flowing on long pulls. YOUR CAR WILL RUN HOTTER after changing the intercooler placement to vertical, so be sure you have a 160 tstat and proper fan settings in the tune. My car runs 10* warmer after the swap. Used to run 170 and now it runs 177-182, and I'm ok with it.

Moral of the story, listen to Higgs.

blown81bu

I went the meth route...have to agree with what doug says..550 rwhp max without meth...safer and cleaner engine and a happy engine to boot

DOUG @ ECS

IMHO you guys are seriously poking a stick at physics, of course I wish you the best, but I do not see longevity in these builds. Assuming you are running 100% pump gas.