Which Supercharger to put on a 2017 Grand Sport??
10-31-2017, 08:19 PM
#41
Nobody ignored any questions.... There is no possible (sensible) way to compare the two blower types.
Roots blowers manufactured in the past 10 years simply fit better and provide much more utility and instant power than
centri designs..... No proof needed here..... General Motors Chose the roots blower for all of the same reasons listed above
and Companies like Lingenfelter and myself really don't offer centris because when it comes down to it they are just not
worth the headache..... Big peaky top end power.... for a sort time. and the trade offs are just not worth the headache
for most of us....
Kinda like a wife with the LARGEST fake breasts they make..... Might look cool short term....
But when she don't wanna sleep with you because her back is out...(from the over-sized ****) then they don't look
soooo cool any more....Do they??? Then they SAG....and the whole package gets traded in for a new one....
That's how I look at centris.... Instant gratification.... if you're willing to deal with all the crap that comes with them.....
It's just how I see it....
Chuck CoW
Roots blowers manufactured in the past 10 years simply fit better and provide much more utility and instant power than
centri designs..... No proof needed here..... General Motors Chose the roots blower for all of the same reasons listed above
and Companies like Lingenfelter and myself really don't offer centris because when it comes down to it they are just not
worth the headache..... Big peaky top end power.... for a sort time. and the trade offs are just not worth the headache
for most of us....
Kinda like a wife with the LARGEST fake breasts they make..... Might look cool short term....
But when she don't wanna sleep with you because her back is out...(from the over-sized ****) then they don't look
soooo cool any more....Do they??? Then they SAG....and the whole package gets traded in for a new one....
That's how I look at centris.... Instant gratification.... if you're willing to deal with all the crap that comes with them.....
It's just how I see it....
Chuck CoW
I take my P1SC procharged z51 to the track in 100 degree texas weather multiple times a year (no other cooling or power mods). $5k, 570 rwhp 530 rwtq and I can run 20-30 minute sessions at near full tilt the entire time. IAT rarely goes over 130. That's I've had the kit for nearly 20k miles and I had 1 problem and that was right at install. My tensioner came seized, a little grease and good to go, no problems since. I BEAT on this car and it's been golden. Just change the oil at the same time as engine oil change, no belt adjustments needed.Two ways to test:
1) Run 2 cars with similar HP, 1 PD base kit and 1 centri base kit, at the same track for 20 minutes and see what the IAT, ECT, EOT are at the end and the speeds achieved on straights.
2) Run 2 cars with similar HP at the drag strip or 1/2 mile and see which runs faster and the IAT, ECT, EOT at the end of each consecutive run.
Here's the facts:
Edelbrock will cost 30-50% more, HEX will severely block radiator airflow.
procharger, a&a, ecs, more top end power, less low end torque, mostly unblocked radiator.
If the edelbrock acts anything like the z06 blower, I already know the answer. Also despite everyone's comments, the dyno graphs I've seen show the edelbrock has very similar torque/power curves to the low boost centrifugal kits. Just slightly less peak hp.
Last edited by BrunoTheMellow; 10-31-2017 at 08:34 PM.
11-01-2017, 08:02 AM
#42
Le Mans Master
this blower is coming soon and I think it's a good alternative to the edlebrock
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...hipping-3.html
also a 2650 displacement rotor
the heartbeat blowers go 8-- hp with a warrenty on the yenko so I think the durability would be good, but I'm more of a turbo guy myself.
most people don't go max effort due to the fuel system and Chuck I'd like to hear your perspective on adding port injection and a dedicated ecm + fuel system to the c7
seems like the better way to go rather than messing with the limitations of the di and it keeps the valves clean
like to use a megasquirt MS3 pro to do this and use meth for the secondary fuel system.
a few tuners are going this route
if you want to "just go" 650 any of these solutions will work and the lt4 takeoff units are factory ready and proven at that hp level even though they aren't as good as some of these other solutions, it's a cheaper alternative.
or bring me the car and I'll hang some hair dryers on it and you can set the hp to where ever you're comfortable with and ramp it up on demand.
pays ya money, takes ya chances.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...hipping-3.html
also a 2650 displacement rotor
the heartbeat blowers go 8-- hp with a warrenty on the yenko so I think the durability would be good, but I'm more of a turbo guy myself.
most people don't go max effort due to the fuel system and Chuck I'd like to hear your perspective on adding port injection and a dedicated ecm + fuel system to the c7
seems like the better way to go rather than messing with the limitations of the di and it keeps the valves clean
like to use a megasquirt MS3 pro to do this and use meth for the secondary fuel system.
a few tuners are going this route
if you want to "just go" 650 any of these solutions will work and the lt4 takeoff units are factory ready and proven at that hp level even though they aren't as good as some of these other solutions, it's a cheaper alternative.
or bring me the car and I'll hang some hair dryers on it and you can set the hp to where ever you're comfortable with and ramp it up on demand.
pays ya money, takes ya chances.
11-01-2017, 09:24 AM
#43
Melting Slicks
Dude. You just ignored the question again. I take my P1SC procharged z51 to the track in 100 degree texas weather multiple times a year (no other cooling or power mods). $5k, 570 rwhp 530 rwtq and I can run 20-30 minute sessions at near full tilt the entire time. IAT rarely goes over 130. That's I've had the kit for nearly 20k miles and I had 1 problem and that was right at install. My tensioner came seized, a little grease and good to go, no problems since. I BEAT on this car and it's been golden. Just change the oil at the same time as engine oil change, no belt adjustments needed.
Two ways to test:
1) Run 2 cars with similar HP, 1 PD base kit and 1 centri base kit, at the same track for 20 minutes and see what the IAT, ECT, EOT are at the end and the speeds achieved on straights.
2) Run 2 cars with similar HP at the drag strip or 1/2 mile and see which runs faster and the IAT, ECT, EOT at the end of each consecutive run.
Here's the facts:
Edelbrock will cost 30-50% more, HEX will severely block radiator airflow.
procharger, a&a, ecs, more top end power, less low end torque, mostly unblocked radiator.
If the edelbrock acts anything like the z06 blower, I already know the answer. Also despite everyone's comments, the dyno graphs I've seen show the edelbrock has very similar torque/power curves to the low boost centrifugal kits. Just slightly less peak hp.
I take my P1SC procharged z51 to the track in 100 degree texas weather multiple times a year (no other cooling or power mods). $5k, 570 rwhp 530 rwtq and I can run 20-30 minute sessions at near full tilt the entire time. IAT rarely goes over 130. That's I've had the kit for nearly 20k miles and I had 1 problem and that was right at install. My tensioner came seized, a little grease and good to go, no problems since. I BEAT on this car and it's been golden. Just change the oil at the same time as engine oil change, no belt adjustments needed.Two ways to test:
1) Run 2 cars with similar HP, 1 PD base kit and 1 centri base kit, at the same track for 20 minutes and see what the IAT, ECT, EOT are at the end and the speeds achieved on straights.
2) Run 2 cars with similar HP at the drag strip or 1/2 mile and see which runs faster and the IAT, ECT, EOT at the end of each consecutive run.
Here's the facts:
Edelbrock will cost 30-50% more, HEX will severely block radiator airflow.
procharger, a&a, ecs, more top end power, less low end torque, mostly unblocked radiator.
If the edelbrock acts anything like the z06 blower, I already know the answer. Also despite everyone's comments, the dyno graphs I've seen show the edelbrock has very similar torque/power curves to the low boost centrifugal kits. Just slightly less peak hp.
You seem to think the Edelbrock has the same over heating issues as the Zo6, it doesnt! The LT4 1.74 blower has to spin to 22k to make its power. The 2300 in the E force doesnt have to spin near that RPM to make its power. It also has better intercoolers and heat exchanger then the LT4, in fact you'll see a lot of Zo6 guys adding the E force reservoir tank for more coolant.
Chuck Ill be in for one of your tunes in March after my Edelbrock warrenty expires.
Last edited by BlueDevilZ51; 11-01-2017 at 09:55 AM.
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Chuck CoW (11-01-2017)
11-01-2017, 11:17 AM
#44
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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
Thanks for bringing some wisdom to the conversation.
Bring your 570rwhp P1SC to New York and ill line up anytime with my Edelbrock stage 2 E force. Id have no fear of any centrifugal kit that was on the stock fuel system with no meth just like me.
You seem to think the Edelbrock has the same over heating issues as the Zo6, it doesnt! The LT4 1.74 blower has to spin to 22k to make its power. The 2300 in the E force doesnt have to spin near that RPM to make its power. It also has better intercoolers and heat exchanger then the LT4, in fact you'll see a lot of Zo6 guys adding the E force reservoir tank for more coolant.
Chuck Ill be in for one of your tunes in March after my Edelbrock warrenty expires.
You seem to think the Edelbrock has the same over heating issues as the Zo6, it doesnt! The LT4 1.74 blower has to spin to 22k to make its power. The 2300 in the E force doesnt have to spin near that RPM to make its power. It also has better intercoolers and heat exchanger then the LT4, in fact you'll see a lot of Zo6 guys adding the E force reservoir tank for more coolant.
Chuck Ill be in for one of your tunes in March after my Edelbrock warrenty expires.
Thanks for bringing some wisdom to the conversation! We need it here.
By the way.... Did you have to cut the structural part of your radiator with a sawz-all and break chunks out of it with a vice grips????
OH, wait... You got an EDELBROCK E-FORCE! I guess you didn't need to do that step....
Call me any time you're ready.
Chuck CoW
11-01-2017, 11:32 AM
#45
Premium Supporting Vendor
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There is a reason why every single stock bottom end record holding car has a centrifugal blower on it. And at one time, not sure if it is still this way, but everyone of those cars had an ECS kit on it. LS1-LS6-LS2-LS7-LT1.
Roots blowers are an easy bolt on blower yes, but those who actually want a fast car and drive them too, the roots blowers are not for you IMHO.
All the main supercharger companies are extremely close to reliability when you put them in the power range that the roots blowers would put you in.
We have many cars that have well over 100,000 miles on them completely trouble free supercharger wise. Way too many to count at this point.
That said I buy the take off roots blowers from the local dealer, why do they have them? Because something failed on it and GM only sends complete superchargers out for replacement and they often do not ask for the core back. They fail like any other part does, but it is not what I would consider a large amount of failures, same with centrifugal blowers.
There has been a lot of one sided opinion given in this thread that I simply do not agree with, but thankfully we live in a country where that's OK.
Roots blowers are an easy bolt on blower yes, but those who actually want a fast car and drive them too, the roots blowers are not for you IMHO.
All the main supercharger companies are extremely close to reliability when you put them in the power range that the roots blowers would put you in.
We have many cars that have well over 100,000 miles on them completely trouble free supercharger wise. Way too many to count at this point.
That said I buy the take off roots blowers from the local dealer, why do they have them? Because something failed on it and GM only sends complete superchargers out for replacement and they often do not ask for the core back. They fail like any other part does, but it is not what I would consider a large amount of failures, same with centrifugal blowers.
There has been a lot of one sided opinion given in this thread that I simply do not agree with, but thankfully we live in a country where that's OK.
11-01-2017, 11:57 AM
#46
Team Owner
Member Since: Jan 2007
Location: cookeville tennessee
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There is a reason why every single stock bottom end record holding car has a centrifugal blower on it. And at one time, not sure if it is still this way, but everyone of those cars had an ECS kit on it. LS1-LS6-LS2-LS7-LT1.
Roots blowers are an easy bolt on blower yes, but those who actually want a fast car and drive them too, the roots blowers are not for you IMHO.
All the main supercharger companies are extremely close to reliability when you put them in the power range that the roots blowers would put you in.
We have many cars that have well over 100,000 miles on them completely trouble free supercharger wise. Way too many to count at this point.
That said I buy the take off roots blowers from the local dealer, why do they have them? Because something failed on it and GM only sends complete superchargers out for replacement and they often do not ask for the core back. They fail like any other part does, but it is not what I would consider a large amount of failures, same with centrifugal blowers.
There has been a lot of one sided opinion given in this thread that I simply do not agree with, but thankfully we live in a country where that's OK.
Roots blowers are an easy bolt on blower yes, but those who actually want a fast car and drive them too, the roots blowers are not for you IMHO.
All the main supercharger companies are extremely close to reliability when you put them in the power range that the roots blowers would put you in.
We have many cars that have well over 100,000 miles on them completely trouble free supercharger wise. Way too many to count at this point.
That said I buy the take off roots blowers from the local dealer, why do they have them? Because something failed on it and GM only sends complete superchargers out for replacement and they often do not ask for the core back. They fail like any other part does, but it is not what I would consider a large amount of failures, same with centrifugal blowers.
There has been a lot of one sided opinion given in this thread that I simply do not agree with, but thankfully we live in a country where that's OK.
with you Doug yes I have had a top blower on a car & in these vette WILL NOT HAVE ONE AGAIN.
Robert
11-01-2017, 12:32 PM
#47
Melting Slicks
There is a reason why every single stock bottom end record holding car has a centrifugal blower on it. And at one time, not sure if it is still this way, but everyone of those cars had an ECS kit on it. LS1-LS6-LS2-LS7-LT1.
That said I buy the take off roots blowers from the local dealer, why do they have them? Because something failed on it and GM only sends complete superchargers out for replacement and they often do not ask for the core back. They fail like any other part does, but it is not what I would consider a large amount of failures, same with centrifugal blowers.
There has been a lot of one sided opinion given in this thread that I simply do not agree with, but thankfully we live in a country where that's OK.
That said I buy the take off roots blowers from the local dealer, why do they have them? Because something failed on it and GM only sends complete superchargers out for replacement and they often do not ask for the core back. They fail like any other part does, but it is not what I would consider a large amount of failures, same with centrifugal blowers.
There has been a lot of one sided opinion given in this thread that I simply do not agree with, but thankfully we live in a country where that's OK.
11-02-2017, 11:26 AM
#48
Premium Supporting Vendor
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Every type of failure, hell I cracked one in half years ago. We just had an Eforce in here that needed new guts, things happen. It's a mechanical part, they all have a failure rate, it's just not that high.
11-02-2017, 03:05 PM
#49
Le Mans Master
Roots blowers are awful. More expensive/slower/overheat like a virgin on prom night. Screw that.
Centri > roots
I have had manyyyy centri set ups and never had any of the issues chuck was talking about.
Centri > roots
I have had manyyyy centri set ups and never had any of the issues chuck was talking about.
Last edited by thegame; 11-02-2017 at 03:05 PM.
11-02-2017, 06:03 PM
#50
Melting Slicks
Oh wait thats right they use roots.
Roots > centrifical
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Chuck CoW (11-03-2017)
11-02-2017, 08:31 PM
#51
Le Mans Master
11-03-2017, 04:20 PM
#53
Just bought a 2017 Grand sport didnt want to spend 15k more for a z06 didnt need 650hp. But now i am thinking I want a little more power. Chuck Cow will be doing engine/software tune after I hit 500 miles on my a8. What is a reasonable priced supercharger maybecan get good discount with a forum dealer. Something where kit is reasonable priced comeswith everythingaqndnot tons of money. I work for Bmw in service so I am sure I can have one of my techsinstall it. Thanks in advance for model and pro charger info. I am in orange county Ca do they also make smog legal supercharger? Or will I have to visit a smog person if you guys knowwhat I mean ?
11-03-2017, 07:34 PM
#55
Thanks for bringing some wisdom to the conversation! We need it here.
By the way.... Did you have to cut the structural part of your radiator with a sawz-all and break chunks out of it with a vice grips????
OH, wait... You got an EDELBROCK E-FORCE! I guess you didn't need to do that step....
Call me any time you're ready.
Chuck CoW
By the way.... Did you have to cut the structural part of your radiator with a sawz-all and break chunks out of it with a vice grips????
OH, wait... You got an EDELBROCK E-FORCE! I guess you didn't need to do that step....
Call me any time you're ready.
Chuck CoW
11-03-2017, 07:39 PM
#56
Bring your 570rwhp P1SC to New York and ill line up anytime with my Edelbrock stage 2 E force. Id have no fear of any centrifugal kit that was on the stock fuel system with no meth just like me.
You seem to think the Edelbrock has the same over heating issues as the Zo6, it doesnt! The LT4 1.74 blower has to spin to 22k to make its power. The 2300 in the E force doesnt have to spin near that RPM to make its power. It also has better intercoolers and heat exchanger then the LT4, in fact you'll see a lot of Zo6 guys adding the E force reservoir tank for more coolant.
Chuck Ill be in for one of your tunes in March after my Edelbrock warrenty expires.
You seem to think the Edelbrock has the same over heating issues as the Zo6, it doesnt! The LT4 1.74 blower has to spin to 22k to make its power. The 2300 in the E force doesnt have to spin near that RPM to make its power. It also has better intercoolers and heat exchanger then the LT4, in fact you'll see a lot of Zo6 guys adding the E force reservoir tank for more coolant.
Chuck Ill be in for one of your tunes in March after my Edelbrock warrenty expires.
Last edited by BrunoTheMellow; 11-10-2017 at 04:40 AM.
11-03-2017, 07:43 PM
#57
If we really think about it, the largest reasoning is likely because of "we've always done it that way". I work in automotive manufacturing and that is 99% of the reason why we haven't changed some stuff. Sure, there may be better alternatives but then we'd have to learn about them.
11-15-2017, 02:31 PM
#58
So you don't need 650 hp and just want a little more power? bare minimum $4500 in parts for a centrifugal, roots will be more. they'll all offer 100+hp. since you live in a communist state (smog), i would recommend just getting a z06 and not dealing with carb compliance. you'll also have a warrantied more robust car all around (clutch, prop shaft, cooling, engine) and better resale dollar for dollar compared to a supercharged gs.
GM told me there are literally no differences between the 17 Z06 and GS with the exception of the supercharger and associated parts (pulley, intake, etc). Same clutch, cooling, etc. They told me the GS had some improvements dealing with cooling and the issue with oil in the intake, and that the 2017 GS had some improvements from the 2016 Z06.
Where are people getting data that the GS has less cooling or a different clutch, or whatever? That is untrue according to GM.
11-15-2017, 03:48 PM
#59
Team Owner
I would go with Edelbrock or the Maggy heartbeat.
Stock reliability I see Chucks points!
I have done 3 centri Charger systems on 3 different Corvette's.
IMO The centri's are more trouble prone. Belts are longer more piping and clamps more to fail. My last Centri install experiment has been done. I took a beating on the car!
The engine tune is critical on any blower car.
Stock reliability I see Chucks points!
I have done 3 centri Charger systems on 3 different Corvette's.
IMO The centri's are more trouble prone. Belts are longer more piping and clamps more to fail. My last Centri install experiment has been done. I took a beating on the car!
The engine tune is critical on any blower car.
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Chuck CoW (11-21-2017)
11-15-2017, 03:52 PM
#60
Team Owner
I'm confused about posts like this. I keep seeing this stuff on this forum, so I actually called GM and asked them about it. I was mad because when I bought my GrandSport, they told me it was literally the exact same as a Z06 with the exception of the LT4.
GM told me there are literally no differences between the 17 Z06 and GS with the exception of the supercharger and associated parts (pulley, intake, etc). Same clutch, cooling, etc. They told me the GS had some improvements dealing with cooling and the issue with oil in the intake, and that the 2017 GS had some improvements from the 2016 Z06.
Where are people getting data that the GS has less cooling or a different clutch, or whatever? That is untrue according to GM.
GM told me there are literally no differences between the 17 Z06 and GS with the exception of the supercharger and associated parts (pulley, intake, etc). Same clutch, cooling, etc. They told me the GS had some improvements dealing with cooling and the issue with oil in the intake, and that the 2017 GS had some improvements from the 2016 Z06.
Where are people getting data that the GS has less cooling or a different clutch, or whatever? That is untrue according to GM.
Only 6800 2017's Z06's sold in the US even less 2018's
Hood is different and side grills. Nothing wrong with the GS!