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How Many of You "08 Buyers are Planning on a C7?

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How Many of You "08 Buyers are Planning on a C7?

 
Old 05-13-2007, 12:55 PM
  #21  
warc1
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Personally, I would be surprised if the C7 debuts in 2010 and even more surprised if it used the LS7 engine. Instead, I think that there is a very good chance that the C6 represents a high water mark for base power in a Corvette for a long time to come.

It is almost a certainty that significantly higher CAFE standards will be imposed in the near term. Ever increasing gas prices and news stories on global warming has public opinion favorable to such a change and the politicians know it. That is why Bush announced his intention to impose higher fuel economy standards in his 2007 State of the Union address. Since Congress will write the legislation under Democratic control, the proposed changes will be significant - likely much higher than the Bush admin would propose on its own. Given current public opinion, I expect such a bill will have wide bipartisan support and the politically weak Bush admin will not be in a position to offer significant opposition. Recent news stories indicate that Congressional development of such a bill is well underway.

Therefore, I think that it is a given that the performance parameters for the C7 design and time for development are both going to take a significant hit. GM is not stupid and is fully aware of these developments. That is why, just last month, GM vice-chairman Bob Lutz publicly announced a freeze on the development of all rear wheel drive GM cars with the exception of the 2009 Camaro and Corvette SS model, which he stated were too far along to postpone. At a minimum, this means that the C7 design is under review which will impact any supposed 2010 release date. More likely, new CAFE standards will require any work on the C7 done to date to be thrown away and begun anew which will significantly push back a release date. As much as I hate to say it, I think it is very unlikely that a C7 designed to meet significantly increased CAFE standards will match, let alone exceed, the the output level of the 2008 C6. That is why my current factory order for a 2008 will probably serve me for a long time to come.

Last edited by warc1; 05-13-2007 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 05-13-2007, 03:09 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by warc1 View Post
Personally, I would be surprised if the C7 debuts in 2010 and even more surprised if it used the LS7 engine. Instead, I think that there is a very good chance that the C6 represents a high water mark for base power in a Corvette for a long time to come.

It is almost a certainty that significantly higher CAFE standards will be imposed in the near term. Ever increasing gas prices and news stories on global warming has public opinion favorable to such a change and the politicians know it. That is why Bush announced his intention to impose higher fuel economy standards in his 2007 State of the Union address. Since Congress will write the legislation under Democratic control, the proposed changes will be significant - likely much higher than the Bush admin would propose on its own. Given current public opinion, I expect such a bill will have wide bipartisan support and the politically weak Bush admin will not be in a position to offer significant opposition. Recent news stories indicate that Congressional development of such a bill is well underway.

Therefore, I think that it is a given that the performance parameters for the C7 design and time for development are both going to take a significant hit. GM is not stupid and is fully aware of these developments. That is why, just last month, GM vice-chairman Bob Lutz publicly announced a freeze on the development of all rear wheel drive GM cars with the exception of the 2009 Camaro and Corvette SS model, which he stated were too far along to postpone. At a minimum, this means that the C7 design is under review which will impact any supposed 2010 release date. More likely, new CAFE standards will require any work on the C7 done to date to be thrown away and begun anew which will significantly push back a release date. As much as I hate to say it, I think it is very unlikely that a C7 designed to meet significantly increased CAFE standards will match, let alone exceed, the the output level of the 2008 C6. That is why my current factory order for a 2008 will probably serve me for a long time to come.
If the above scenario plays out, then I probably won't be buying another Corvette, period. Its also why I believe that the C7 will be here sooner rather than later. 2010 is not even 36 months away from todays date. More like 31 months. I doubt all of the above comes to pass before then.

My prediction is that some, perhaps even a lot, of these '08s are going to be less than 24 months old when announcements, enthusiasm and anticipation, about the C7 get into full bloom.

I see the changes being made to the C6 in somewhat the same light as similar changes as we saw in the C4. These changes in the C6.... IMO are heralding the final days of the C6.

I don't see the horsepower going down in the Corvette, I see it going up. The competition will have a lot to do with how Chevrolet responds in the C7.

With competition from Nissan, Porsche, Daimler Chrysler, Ford, BMW, Mitsubishi, etc. plus all of these blown 4 bangers and V6s offered by some of the manufacturers, I highly doubt that that the C6 represents a high water mark for base power in a Corvette for a long time to come.

If the C7 is not going to be significantly more powerful than the last of the base C6s, then Chevy may as well scrap plans for the C7 now.

Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 05-13-2007 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 05-13-2007, 03:22 PM
  #23  
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This current muscle car era will continue if the manufacturers are able to utilize the technology that has made aircraft fly higher, faster, farther and quiter. Look for further weight reduction as a partial solution and less fluff in the pure performance car of the near future.

A less powerfull C7 would be a sales disaster. The Asian and Euro competition would surely grab this market in short order.
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Old 05-13-2007, 03:28 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by drmustang View Post

A less powerfull C7 would be a sales disaster. The Asian and Euro competition would surely grab this market in short order.

Perhaps, but there are also a lot of things out of GM's control, such as the price of gas. Just look at what happened to the Corvette in the mid 70s thanks to the gas crisis! We went from having 400+ hp big blocks, to 180hp small blocks. It didn't hurt sales though, I think the mid to late 70s were the highest production years for the Corvette.
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Old 05-13-2007, 03:29 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by drmustang View Post
This current muscle car era will continue if the manufacturers are able to utilize the technology that has made aircraft fly higher, faster, farther and quiter. Look for further weight reduction as a partial solution and less fluff in the pure performance car of the near future.

A less powerfull C7 would be a sales disaster. The Asian and Euro competition would surely grab this market in short order.
In very short order.

I suspect C7 will be a slam dunk, and will take the automotive world by storm, just as the C5 and C6 before it.

This cannot happen if it doesn't become any more powerful than its predecessor.
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Old 05-13-2007, 03:45 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Patman View Post
Perhaps, but there are also a lot of things out of GM's control, such as the price of gas. Just look at what happened to the Corvette in the mid 70s thanks to the gas crisis! We went from having 400+ hp big blocks, to 180hp small blocks. It didn't hurt sales though, I think the mid to late 70s were the highest production years for the Corvette.
With the Vettes of the mid 70's Chevy was not facing the global competition which they are facing now with forced induction imports and powerful "sports sedans" available in offerings from several manufacturers.

Chevy was in a much better position to get away with producing underpowered Vettes in the mid 70s than they are now. The stunt they pulled in the mid 70s, putting those weak Vettes on the road, will never fly now.

With todays, powerful and well handling "sports sedans" which were practically unheard of back in the 70's, Chevy can ill afford to start producing Vettes which are not as powerful as say BMW M3s, M6s, or blown Mitsubishi EVOs and Subaru WRx STis.

Buy American and brand loyalty are things of the past.

No, with Americans willing to live from one paycheck to the next, much moreso than they were willing to back in the 70s, ...people willing to borrow against their homes for sports cars, a practice practically unheard of back in 1975, advances in forced induction and displacement on demand, ........ I doubt the price of gasoline will effect the power adversely in the sports cars of the near future.

I look for the C7 to come in at or near 475-500 horsepower. It will almost have to due to the competion.

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Old 05-13-2007, 04:23 PM
  #27  
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I look for the C7 to come in at or near 475-500 horsepower. It will almost have to due to the competion.
I don't pretend to have a crystal ball seeing into the future, but I think you are missing a few salient facts. CAFE standards apply to all manufacturers selling into the US including imports. If as anticipated the standards are significantly increased, competitors will be under the same requirements to design and build more fuel efficient vehicles. This is already moving swiftly as evidenced by the following newspaper article in today's Oakland Press:

Meanwhile, a proposal raising fuel-efficiency standards to 35 mpg by 2020 was approved last week by a Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation committee.

The measure would increase standards by 4 percent a year from 2020 through 2030. There is a good chance that backers, who include environmentalists, national security hawks and consumers demanding an answer to rising fuel prices, have the 60 votes necessary to stop any kind of a filibuster.

In fact, a filibuster would only do even more damage to the tattered image of the industry's executives, who are widely viewed outside of Detroit as utterly incompetent.
This is a 40% increase in overall fuel economy. While the target date of 2020 seems a long way away, you have to understand that fuel economy will be expected to increase gradually over this period, so that if enacted, it will affect manufacturers' planning and designs from the moment it is passed. That is why GM has frozen development of all rear wheel drive cars, apparently including the C7.

http://www.postbulletin.com/newsmana...p?z=7&a=291313

Again, it's not my intent to convince anyone that this absolutely will happen. However, current trends are certainly pointing to lower power, fuel efficient vehicles representing the future direction rather than the reverse.

Last edited by warc1; 05-13-2007 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 05-13-2007, 04:31 PM
  #28  
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Im buying a new vert as soon as I get this one paid for. My last payment is June 2nd 2057. Still have a little while I'll be 98 year old. WoW.
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Old 05-13-2007, 04:34 PM
  #29  
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A C7 Corvette with any retreat in advertiseable HP would simply not be worth bringing to market.

There could very well be a FI Corvette in the not so distant future. FI in lighter weight, smaller displacement vehicles can yield astounding acceleration stats and doing so with reasonble to excellent fuel economy. This could be the near term solution to government impossed roadblocks for the performance industry. As one who owned, modified and drag raced an 03 Cobra, I can tell you that factory FI vehicles are a modders dream. A factory 4.6L engine that put 365HP to the can be raised to 462rwhp and 489rwhp for $1,300 bucks. A 6.0 liter motor in a C7 with FI would blow your mind and take the performance world by storm.
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Old 05-13-2007, 04:35 PM
  #30  
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I will get a c7 but i will also keep my c6 as well
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Old 05-13-2007, 04:51 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by DSOM Z51 View Post


Thought I'd put this out there. With the C7 rumored for 2010 as a 2011 model, and also rumored to get the LS7, and almost certain to get a new body style, new interior and electronic features how many of you who will be pulling the trigger on the '08 are planning on flipping it for a C7?

http://www.automotive.com/future-car...z07/index.html

505hp in the base car???

My C6 won't be replaced with another C6, but with a C7.

How many of you '08 folks will be buying C7s in 2010 or 2011?
Like the C6, you will want to give the C7 two or three years to mature. That will be just about right to replace the 2008.
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Old 05-13-2007, 05:45 PM
  #32  
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I don't buy the first year of a whole new model. I waited for (as it turnes out) the 2008 model of C6 before buying. I will wait for a few years of C7 to be out before buying one.
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Old 05-13-2007, 05:46 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by warc1 View Post
I don't pretend to have a crystal ball seeing into the future, but I think you are missing a few salient facts. CAFE standards apply to all manufacturers selling into the US including imports. If as anticipated the standards are significantly increased, competitors will be under the same requirements to design and build more fuel efficient vehicles. This is already moving swiftly as evidenced by the following newspaper article in today's Oakland Press:



This is a 40% increase in overall fuel economy. While the target date of 2020 seems a long way away, you have to understand that fuel economy will be expected to increase gradually over this period, so that if enacted, it will affect manufacturers' planning and designs from the moment it is passed. That is why GM has frozen development of all rear wheel drive cars, apparently including the C7.

http://www.postbulletin.com/newsmana...p?z=7&a=291313

Again, it's not my intent to convince anyone that this absolutely will happen. However, current trends are certainly pointing to lower power, fuel efficient vehicles representing the future direction rather than the reverse.
At any rate, it will be interesting to see.

I am with drmustang in his assessment however that a C7 with any retreat in advertised HP, or even only a miniscule increase in HP would not be worth bringing to market. I believe that Chevy knows that.

If forced induction or displacement on demand will be Chevy's solution to providing the power that Vette owners are going to demand, or seek elsewhere, then as WHT says, a two year period of maturation would be a wise move for one considering going into a C7.

As for CAFE and it affecting other manufacturers, well I am certainly aware of that.

However those other manufacturers are willing to use small displacement engines and forced induction, seemingly at the drop of a hat in order to jockey for position in the HP and performance competition.

With so many foreign manufacturers, and at least one domestic manufacturer (Ford) ready and willing to use this method of making power, I suspect that this will eliminate the prospect of backing off on the power in the C7 as an option for GM in the Corvette. .
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Old 05-13-2007, 10:37 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by drmustang View Post
A less powerfull C7 would be a sales disaster. The Asian and Euro competition would surely grab this market in short order.
Whle having the Dems in office makes me nervous for the HP enthisiast, I have no doubt that whatever the Asians and Euros can do in terms of performance, Chevy can do better. People can rag on GM for interior quality and orange peel (which is since all cars have it now - thank a tree hugger and VOC phobia for that) but they kick *** when it comes to making low cost, fuel efficient high HP engines.
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Old 05-13-2007, 10:52 PM
  #35  
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However those other manufacturers are willing to use small displacement engines and forced induction, seemingly at the drop of a hat in order to jockey for position in the HP and performance competition.

With so many foreign manufacturers, and at least one domestic manufacturer (Ford) ready and willing to use this method of making power, I suspect that this will eliminate the prospect of backing off on the power in the C7 as an option for GM in the Corvette.
Forced induction has virtually no bearing on meeting significantly increased CAFE standards. The Porsche 911 turbo with its small displacement FI engine generates less power than the Z06 with virtually identical fuel economy. Like the the vice chairman of GM said in the article I linked to above:

"We don't know how to get 30 percent better mileage from" RWD cars.
It's just physically not possible to generate the same power on 40% less fuel (as per the currently proposed new standard) or even 20% for that matter. The engines are as about efficient as they will get which leaves weight savings as the main opportunity for improvement. However even that has limits on how far you can go without breaking the bank on exotic materials and construction or violating safety standards.
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Old 05-13-2007, 11:04 PM
  #36  
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This is where carbon fiber, aluminum, and magnesium have to shave the weight. HP can stand still if the weight goes down.
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Old 05-13-2007, 11:51 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by warc1 View Post
Forced induction has virtually no bearing on meeting significantly increased CAFE standards. The Porsche 911 turbo with its small displacement FI engine generates less power than the Z06 with virtually identical fuel economy. Like the the vice chairman of GM said in the article I linked to above:
Well not to hijack my own thread, but the Porsche 911 Turbo is a much heavier car. It weighs in at 3,494 pounds with the manual transmission and 3,572 with the Tiptronic automatic.

The 2007 Z06 comes in at 3132 lbs.

A difference of 362 lbs when comparing manual to manual and 440 lbs when comparing the Z to the Tiptronic automatic Porsche 911 turbo.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=115988

I wonder if the gas mileage of the Porsche would be better were it not carrying around an extra 362 lbs of weight.

The Porsche is also all wheel drive which is bound to hurt it's gas mileage as well. Still, in spite of all of the above, the 911 Turbo avoided a gas guzzler tax.

My point is this: Were this car, which is powered by a 3.6 liter, 6 cylinder turbocharged engine, not so heavy, and not all wheel drive, it would get much better gas mileage than it does now while still making what, 480 hp and around 460 ft/lbs of torque standard, and over 500 ft/lbs of torque with the "On-demand overboost" ??

Bottom line is Chevy's competitors are apparently willing to use forced induction and small cubes in an effort to escalate and "compete in with the intent of winning" the HP wars while maintaining some semblence of fuel economy.

GM will be forced to follow suit in the C7 Corvette, using one method or another. This ain't the 70's and performance buffs are not going to tolorate an underpowered Corvette as they did in the mid 70s. Not when other manufacturers can and will use forced induction to keep the HP levels in their own offerings up there.

Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 05-14-2007 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 05-14-2007, 12:21 AM
  #38  
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All this discussion regarding CAFE and horespower. May I throw some more gasoline on the fire. The demand for gasoline in China is growing by leaps & bounds. The war to stabilize Iraq (gobs of oil reserves there) is a mess. Maybe the powers that be finally see that once China surpasses the U.S. in demand for oil and we lose control of the Iraq oil reserves our economy will take a severe hit as the price of gasoline goes through the roof.

It is quite possible that we may be looking at something other than a straight gasoline engine in the new Corvette if GM wants to compete with the other sports cars with regard to horse power (think turbo diesel).

Can we all think alternative fuel = bio diesel

In any case if there still is social security by the time the C7 comes out I would consider trading my 05
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Old 05-14-2007, 12:24 AM
  #39  
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Not to offend anyone, but I don't know why these types of questions get asked. There is no point.
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Old 05-14-2007, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by anders1118 View Post
Not to offend anyone, but I don't know why these types of questions get asked. There is no point.
.................gets people to share ideas and think into the future be it logically,

spiritually or through some other theory.
I myself enjoyed reading different peoples comments. Heck

before the C6 came out and it was rumored no flip up lights, you would have

thought the world was gonna end, me included


I am thankful in 2005 that I was privledged to drive a rumored LS7 many years

before it became the base C7 engine that is rumored in the author of this threads first post


Originally Posted by DSOM Z51 View Post


Thought I'd put this out there. With the C7 rumored for 2010 as a 2011 model, and also rumored to get the LS7,
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