The C7 as a diesel & with more HP - it could happen...
06-11-2008, 11:21 AM
#41
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I am OK with any diesel engine in a Corvette, as long as it performs.... and is a turbine!
06-11-2008, 12:15 PM
#42
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you sound like my DAD!! (very old)
Its that mentality that prevents real companies that know how to make a excellent diesel from bringing them to the US.
you are stuck in a time when diesels WERE the way you are describing.
NOW times are-a-changin'
diesels are MORE powerful, BETTER mpg, much higher TQ, far more dependable, and more durable, up until recently much cheaper to fuel..
all the major makers have diesels in other countries.
why do you think the Military uses diesel so much??
you need to do allot more research before you go spouting off junk like that. Have you even researched the Audi R8 TDi?? or other diesel racers?
i wouldn't expect the average vette buyer to want a diesel in a vette.
but you are just ignorant in this area.
Its that mentality that prevents real companies that know how to make a excellent diesel from bringing them to the US.
you are stuck in a time when diesels WERE the way you are describing.
NOW times are-a-changin'
diesels are MORE powerful, BETTER mpg, much higher TQ, far more dependable, and more durable, up until recently much cheaper to fuel..
all the major makers have diesels in other countries.
why do you think the Military uses diesel so much??
you need to do allot more research before you go spouting off junk like that. Have you even researched the Audi R8 TDi?? or other diesel racers?
i wouldn't expect the average vette buyer to want a diesel in a vette.
but you are just ignorant in this area.
I am with the poster above --- a much heavier, taller engine like a diesel is simply never going to fit in the Corvette and still have anything resembling sleekness. Direct injection on a smaller FI engine I can believe..........Chill, dude!
06-11-2008, 04:40 PM
#43
Maybe GM is talkin to BANKS PERFORMANCE?
He lives to make diesel outperform gas.
I vote for Ethanol or Hydrogen...Eth has a higher compression potential and both are cleaner than dinosaur fuel.
Plus it would be kinda cool driving an H-Bomb
He lives to make diesel outperform gas.
I vote for Ethanol or Hydrogen...Eth has a higher compression potential and both are cleaner than dinosaur fuel.
Plus it would be kinda cool driving an H-Bomb
06-11-2008, 08:39 PM
#44
Burning Brakes
Well again ---- ..you probably don't remember how WILDLY successful the first round of GM diesels was --- I do.......and even the new diesels still stink and rattle more than conventional internal combustion engines (heard one start up cold??). Putting liquid or powdered urea (you do know what THAT is made out of, right?) into the car every third tankful is not my idea of pleasant either.......but you are right, the diesels have had incredible racing success recently, but not even Audi has been able to translate that to the street yet.....Ignorant?...no.....sceptical in the extreme? Definitely.
I am with the poster above --- a much heavier, taller engine like a diesel is simply never going to fit in the Corvette and still have anything resembling sleekness. Direct injection on a smaller FI engine I can believe..........Chill, dude!
I am with the poster above --- a much heavier, taller engine like a diesel is simply never going to fit in the Corvette and still have anything resembling sleekness. Direct injection on a smaller FI engine I can believe..........Chill, dude!
Anyway, to answer your questions.. I barley remember the old nasty American made diesels (i grew up and was awaken many times next to one)
of course they are not as quiet and a gasser but the positive out-weight the negatives. I also know about having to add Urea
sometimes to ULSD. I love my old (97) dodge cummins and run everything through that engine.. and my own homemade Bio-diesel. and mix and match.
cutting fuel cost to almost free to drive. ( so this issue personal to me)
try that while getting 300Hp/ over 720Lb TQ, AND 20 MPG from a 4x4 Auto.!!
True about Audi not making RACING diesels to the street YET..
BUT Audi, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, VW all have extremely high quality passenger cars over seas and BMW has 2 models arriving very soon in diesel 5 series and and X series.
diesels arn't THAT much bigger than gassers, heavier.. yes
and finally, if they made a corvette (or any sports car) with a diesel, that was sleek and great looking I would DEFINATLY get one
06-14-2008, 10:21 AM
#45
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It is truly ashame that you don't know what you're talking about. I own a Mercedes turbo dieseland several Vetts. The new turbos use high pressure rail fuel injection. They are quiet,do not smell and do not produce the old telltale smoke. They produce so much torque, you wouldn't believe it, with a mere 196 Hp. Single turbo. Immagine a TT with, say 500HP and 1000ftlbs of torque. Now that would be talking. Oh, by the way, to prove the point, Mercedes ran a TT diesel at Le Mans for 24hrs at 200MPH.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
06-14-2008, 12:44 PM
#46
Burning Brakes
It is truly ashame that you don't know what you're talking about. I own a Mercedes turbo dieseland several Vetts. The new turbos use high pressure rail fuel injection. They are quiet,do not smell and do not produce the old telltale smoke. They produce so much torque, you wouldn't believe it, with a mere 196 Hp. Single turbo. Immagine a TT with, say 500HP and 1000ftlbs of torque. Now that would be talking. Oh, by the way, to prove the point, Mercedes ran a TT diesel at Le Mans for 24hrs at 200MPH.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
07-29-2008, 09:02 AM
#49
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I own a fairly large trucking company and own 40 Diesel powered tractors. The newest Caterpillar engines run so clean that you could literally put your head into the stacks and not smell any diesel fumes. But it's when you fill up is where I get turned off. First of all with the fuel filler in it's present location you will definitely get diesel fumes wafting into the interior, and they linger! Did you ever go into a station that sells diesel and look at the ground around the diesel pumps? Nasty.I definitely don't feel like tracking that into the car either. I'll keep the diesels in the trucks and the gasoline engines in my Vette!
08-01-2008, 12:38 AM
#51
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http://video.google.com/videosearch?...n&sitesearch=#
The New Diesels are fantastic.
I have a twin turbo V10 in my Touareg with 552 lb ft torque at 2,000 rpm's
Red line at 4,000 so you don't have to wait to develop the horsepower.
With just a chip it's over 700 torque.
The New Diesels are fantastic.
I have a twin turbo V10 in my Touareg with 552 lb ft torque at 2,000 rpm's
Red line at 4,000 so you don't have to wait to develop the horsepower.
With just a chip it's over 700 torque.
08-01-2008, 12:14 PM
#52
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I'm not a fan of diesel engines, but even I have to admit they're ideal for regular cars and regular drivers - the sort of people who would never dream of taking their cars over 3000rpm and run on part throttle almost all the time. For them the mid-range torque is great, and the limited rev-range isn't an issue.
However, I think most Corvette drivers have higher expectations of their engines:
1) Nice noise. When my neighbour starts up his Audi A6 diesel, I run to the door thinking a delivery van has arrived... And if Audi can't make an LMP race car exhaust sound interesting, what chance is there for a diesel Corvette?
2) Decent rev range. Look at a high-output turbo-diesel torque curve, and you'll see nothing below about 1700rpm, rising vertically to a dizzy peak at 1900rpm, then falling off fast until there's nothing left beyond about 4000rpm. So you have an effective rev range of just over 2000rpm, compared with 5000rpm for an LS3....
3) Light weight and compact. Diesels are big and heavy. Even if you can package them, it's going to affect handling. Less of an issue with mid-engine designs, but for a sleek front-engined car it's a big problem.
I think the progress made with diesel engines over the last 20 years has been truly amazing, but that doesn't make them the right engine for a Corvette.
However, I think most Corvette drivers have higher expectations of their engines:
1) Nice noise. When my neighbour starts up his Audi A6 diesel, I run to the door thinking a delivery van has arrived... And if Audi can't make an LMP race car exhaust sound interesting, what chance is there for a diesel Corvette?
2) Decent rev range. Look at a high-output turbo-diesel torque curve, and you'll see nothing below about 1700rpm, rising vertically to a dizzy peak at 1900rpm, then falling off fast until there's nothing left beyond about 4000rpm. So you have an effective rev range of just over 2000rpm, compared with 5000rpm for an LS3....
3) Light weight and compact. Diesels are big and heavy. Even if you can package them, it's going to affect handling. Less of an issue with mid-engine designs, but for a sleek front-engined car it's a big problem.
I think the progress made with diesel engines over the last 20 years has been truly amazing, but that doesn't make them the right engine for a Corvette.
08-02-2008, 01:45 PM
#53
Never say never.
http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/201...sel-spied.html
Scroll down and you can see where the new 4.5L Duramax is compared to the 6.2L gas engine visually with a side and end view of the two engines laid over each other. The 4.5L Duramax could be a direct replacement for the LSx engines in the Corvette and with aluminum heads and narrower 72 degree V-angle, it won't be much heavier if any. The exhaust manifolds are cast integral to the heads and dump into the V of the engine directly to a turbo. The intakes are cast integral to the cam covers...oh yeah, it's a DOHC 4-valve engine like our ZR-1s.
http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/201...sel-spied.html
Scroll down and you can see where the new 4.5L Duramax is compared to the 6.2L gas engine visually with a side and end view of the two engines laid over each other. The 4.5L Duramax could be a direct replacement for the LSx engines in the Corvette and with aluminum heads and narrower 72 degree V-angle, it won't be much heavier if any. The exhaust manifolds are cast integral to the heads and dump into the V of the engine directly to a turbo. The intakes are cast integral to the cam covers...oh yeah, it's a DOHC 4-valve engine like our ZR-1s.
08-03-2008, 08:31 PM
#55
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http://www.crash.net/motorsport/le_m...s_le_mans.html
For You Gary W.
Check it out.
Your arm chair engineering needs a tune
For You Gary W.
Check it out.
Your arm chair engineering needs a tune
08-04-2008, 01:53 PM
#56
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I don't understand why 'Vettes are being faced with mileage panic. They get better mileage than most cars.
My Z06 gets typically 20 for a tank, with a mix of ~28 highway and ~15-16 city. I've no doubt the normal C6s are appreciably better (better Cd, less displacement).
Guys, thats pretty good mileage. Throw in DOD and I can't see why a normal C6, with its .28 Cd, relatively small frontal area, light weight, 2 wheel drive, etc. couldn't get an EPA of 20-22/30. Real world highway mileage of 33 or something like that.
Am i missing something? Did someone spike my coffee? Or is the 'Vette a gas-sipper the way it is and something simple, like DOD, could bump it into economy car territory?
My Z06 gets typically 20 for a tank, with a mix of ~28 highway and ~15-16 city. I've no doubt the normal C6s are appreciably better (better Cd, less displacement).
Guys, thats pretty good mileage. Throw in DOD and I can't see why a normal C6, with its .28 Cd, relatively small frontal area, light weight, 2 wheel drive, etc. couldn't get an EPA of 20-22/30. Real world highway mileage of 33 or something like that.
Am i missing something? Did someone spike my coffee? Or is the 'Vette a gas-sipper the way it is and something simple, like DOD, could bump it into economy car territory?
08-31-2008, 07:19 PM
#57
Le Mans Master
Michael
Last edited by Michael A; 08-31-2008 at 07:35 PM.
11-01-2008, 08:25 PM
#59
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`Tis a silly place....
Americans don't like diesel cars, Americans don't buy diesel cars, Americans will not buy diesel Corvettes. GM will not sell a diesel in their flagship car anytime soon, there is no money in it.
Your next gen Corvette engine will be an mid-4 liter, overhead cam, direct injection with a supercharger which will run on gasoline and get comparable mileage and torque as a turbo D-fuel engine. Unlikely to be above 5 liter because of impending mileage restrictions, but possible.
This is the engine under development, tell all your friends now so you can look real smart 6-8 years down the road when it happens. This diesel speculation is nonsense.
Americans don't like diesel cars, Americans don't buy diesel cars, Americans will not buy diesel Corvettes. GM will not sell a diesel in their flagship car anytime soon, there is no money in it.
Your next gen Corvette engine will be an mid-4 liter, overhead cam, direct injection with a supercharger which will run on gasoline and get comparable mileage and torque as a turbo D-fuel engine. Unlikely to be above 5 liter because of impending mileage restrictions, but possible.
This is the engine under development, tell all your friends now so you can look real smart 6-8 years down the road when it happens. This diesel speculation is nonsense.
11-02-2008, 09:22 AM
#60
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I own a fairly large trucking company and own 40 Diesel powered tractors. The newest Caterpillar engines run so clean that you could literally put your head into the stacks and not smell any diesel fumes. But it's when you fill up is where I get turned off. First of all with the fuel filler in it's present location you will definitely get diesel fumes wafting into the interior, and they linger! Did you ever go into a station that sells diesel and look at the ground around the diesel pumps? Nasty.I definitely don't feel like tracking that into the car either. I'll keep the diesels in the trucks and the gasoline engines in my Vette!
the idiots in their big diesel pickups pouring black smoke out at every stplight aren't helping your case. I don't know if they remove the partical seperators or just run crappy tunes or do it because they like it, but it isn't helping the image of a clean burning diesel like the vw tdi's at all.