Notices
C7 General Discussion General C7 Corvette Discussion not covered in Tech
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

C7 and the new CAFE

 
Old 06-24-2008, 12:15 PM
  #1  
WhiteDiamond
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
WhiteDiamond's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2001
Location: Castle Rock CO
Posts: 11,113
Thanked 58 Times in 41 Posts
St. Jude Donor '15
Default C7 and the new CAFE

Since GM's announcement that they "finally" believe the downward trend in SUV and truck sales is gas price related and here to stay, I have been pondering the C7s possible future.

Does anyone know what the penalties are for specific vehicles that don't make the new CAFE requirements are? Basically, is the the gas guzzler tax going to continue and will it be applied more openly to vehicles that don't make the new CAFE, or how does the gas guzzler continue as is with current gas milage penalty ranges?

If GM reduces SUV/Truck production, as they are stating, and ramps more fuel effecient cars, does anyone have any idea what GMs new CAFE will reach with current vehicles and current milage ratings? With less pigs and more high milers in production, their(GM's) CAFE has to move up immediately.

Does GM have the capacity to ramp the dual mode hybrid system to a MUCH larger percentage of the SUVs and trucks it will build next year?

All of this is basically asking, does GM really have to make a huge change in the Corvette's gas milage numbers? While I understand the new CAFE is a pretty big hike(mostly for trucks and SUVs, though), the current price of gas may be the biggest "help" we have at keeping our powerful Vettes. With people buying less trucks/SUVs, if GM can put more of the hybrid trucks/SUVs into the hands of those buying them gas prices be damned, and more high milage vehicles are coming out of production facilities, it seems to me that our low production C7 could remain with pretty similar(to C6 numbers) gas milage ratings and not significantly hurt GM. Also, if the new CAFE law upped the gas guzzler, I want GM to know I would gladly pay a gas guzzler tax to own the powerful and exciting vehicles I choose, not what Mr. Big Brother wants me to drive.

Oh, and to beat that horse down a tad more, I want to thank the government for again showing they aren't of the people/for the people by passing this new CAFE legislation. If I want to put 50.00/gallon gas in my Z06, then I should be able to purchase both the gas and the Z06.
WhiteDiamond is offline  
Old 06-24-2008, 07:26 PM
  #2  
KILR-RYD
CF Senior Member
 
KILR-RYD's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2005
Location: Palatine(ChicagoLand) IL
Posts: 1,733
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by WhiteDiamond View Post
If I want to put 50.00/gallon gas in my Z06, then I should be able to purchase both the gas and the Z06.
CAFE is probably for "saving the planet" and nothing to do with your rights to do what you please.
KILR-RYD is offline  
Old 06-25-2008, 02:10 AM
  #3  
lt4obsesses
CF Senior Member
 
lt4obsesses's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2006
Location: H-Town Texas
Posts: 4,594
Thanked 115 Times in 68 Posts
Default

As I understand it, and I may be incorrect, but the CAFE states that the average mileage must be 35mpg for the entire fleet of a particular car company. So, if Chevrolet were produce enough 40-50 mpg'rs, they could whatever with the Corvette w/o penalty. If this is the case, this is good in that individual cars are no longer punished so long as the manufacturer is producing enough of the high milers. This might also mean that Corvette production #'s might be reduced.
lt4obsesses is offline  
Old 06-25-2008, 02:22 AM
  #4  
BuckyThreadkiller
Successful Plumber
Support Corvetteforum!
 
BuckyThreadkiller's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2001
Location: Top of the hill, 3rd mailbox on the right. Texas
Posts: 43,828
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 4 Posts
CF NCM Ambassador
CI 6-7-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10
NCM Member '09
Default

It's the Corporate AVERAGE Fuel Economy. That means when the Volt hits the street and uses no gas at all for 40 miles of the EPA loop, the CAFE is going to get a real boost. Add in the Malibu and Saturn hybrids, new hybrid SUVs and Pickups and GM will be making some ground on the CAFE ratings.


You'll never hear it in the media, but there are some folks at GM who know what they are doing.

If they can figure a means to get the driveline to handle a DOD system in the Corvette the highway mileage could get even better. Perhaps they'll figure out the vibration issues with the C7
BuckyThreadkiller is offline  
Old 06-25-2008, 11:20 AM
  #5  
Racer X
CF Senior Member
 
Racer X's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2000
Location: North Dallas 40 TX
Posts: 1,626
Thanked 20 Times in 14 Posts
Default

There is a calculation based on the "footprint" of the vehichles a company produces, so that the CAFE average each company needs to produce is different.

Footprint is the defined as the area covered by the wheelbase and track.
Racer X is offline  
Old 06-25-2008, 01:14 PM
  #6  
Shrike6
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
Shrike6's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,035
Thanked 41 Times in 15 Posts
Cruise-In 7, 9 & 12 Veteran
Wounded Warrior Escort '11
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11
Default

And let's not forget that flex fuel ( E85) vehicles are factored in differently, so the more of these GM produces, the better their CAFE average.
GM
Shrike6 is offline  
Old 06-25-2008, 02:55 PM
  #7  
Racer X
CF Senior Member
 
Racer X's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2000
Location: North Dallas 40 TX
Posts: 1,626
Thanked 20 Times in 14 Posts
Default

Perhaps they will make a flex fuel Vette. IIRC, the computer fuel tables have the capability already there.
Racer X is offline  
Old 06-30-2008, 03:50 AM
  #8  
racebum
CF Senior Member
 
racebum's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2008
Location: oregon
Posts: 15,978
Thanked 139 Times in 134 Posts
Default

R&T mentioned something about a 4.x litre motor in devolopment. with current technology and the ever important MPG something crossed up with GM and an acura nsx would make a sweet vette. smaller high rpm engine in a light weight chassis would be a great way to keep the MPG up and the performance outstanding. can anyone else picture a 4 litre v-8 with variable valve timing and a dual overhead cam head that redlines at 8000rpm in a 2500lb car?
racebum is offline  
Old 07-02-2008, 01:06 AM
  #9  
dagon138
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Feb 2005
Location: Ventura CA
Posts: 1,187
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by racebum View Post
R&T mentioned something about a 4.x litre motor in devolopment. with current technology and the ever important MPG something crossed up with GM and an acura nsx would make a sweet vette. smaller high rpm engine in a light weight chassis would be a great way to keep the MPG up and the performance outstanding. can anyone else picture a 4 litre v-8 with variable valve timing and a dual overhead cam head that redlines at 8000rpm in a 2500lb car?

Oh I can, but the rednecks here will have a seizure for sure!
dagon138 is offline  
Old 07-02-2008, 03:40 AM
  #10  
howarsc
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Aug 2005
Location: Pace FL
Posts: 347
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by dagon138 View Post
Oh I can, but the rednecks here will have a seizure for sure!
BMW is trying this with the M3. But no one will meet safety standards and remain at 2500lbs. There are several other auto manufacturers using small v8's but they have to use gears to offset the lack of torque or forced induction, but either kills mpg. A 4L v8 with twin turbos might get you there with some of the new technology in turbos. No other FI I know of is efficient enough for the power and MPG gains.

I have 7500 rpm peak power (8000 limiter) in a 7.7L in my '68. This is just a weekend cruiser as most 68's are. Rednecks can enjoy high rpm toys.
howarsc is offline  
Old 07-03-2008, 03:51 AM
  #11  
racebum
CF Senior Member
 
racebum's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2008
Location: oregon
Posts: 15,978
Thanked 139 Times in 134 Posts
Default

how is lotus building a 2000lb car & getting it on the road? just wondering, i seriously know squat about safety ratings and the automobile. then again, this might be a problem http://finance.google.com/finance?q=gm&hl=en
racebum is offline  
Old 07-03-2008, 08:02 AM
  #12  
Rkreigh
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Dec 1999
Location: Alexandria, Virginia, USA VA
Posts: 7,807
Thanked 74 Times in 67 Posts
Default

with modern tech the c7 should be lighter, smaller displacement, and come very close to meeting the regs.

they are staggered and start in 2012 and continue to 2020

by then hopefully the c8 will fly!
Rkreigh is offline  
Old 07-03-2008, 11:39 AM
  #13  
Racer X
CF Senior Member
 
Racer X's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2000
Location: North Dallas 40 TX
Posts: 1,626
Thanked 20 Times in 14 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Rkreigh View Post
.....
by then hopefully the c8 will fly!
Yeah, where is my flying car! I was promised circa 1970 that we would have them by 2000.
Racer X is offline  
Old 07-05-2008, 07:07 PM
  #14  
howarsc
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Aug 2005
Location: Pace FL
Posts: 347
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Racer X View Post
Yeah, where is my flying car! I was promised circa 1970 that we would have them by 2000.
lol, I heard it in 1984.
howarsc is offline  
Old 07-07-2008, 12:40 PM
  #15  
RichieRich
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Jun 2000
Location: Pleasanton CA
Posts: 2,735
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by racebum View Post
how is lotus building a 2000lb car & getting it on the road? just wondering, i seriously know squat about safety ratings and the automobile. then again, this might be a problem http://finance.google.com/finance?q=gm&hl=en
I'm not going to take the time to look for it, but I'm fairly certain I read that Lotus got some safety exception for the Elise because they're a low volume producer or the Elise is a low volume car from a low volume company. Something like that...
RichieRich is offline  
Old 07-07-2008, 03:15 PM
  #16  
Racer X
CF Senior Member
 
Racer X's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2000
Location: North Dallas 40 TX
Posts: 1,626
Thanked 20 Times in 14 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by RichieRich View Post
I'm not going to take the time to look for it, but I'm fairly certain I read that Lotus got some safety exception for the Elise because they're a low volume producer or the Elise is a low volume car from a low volume company. Something like that...
They got a couple of waivers, IIRC. One was for 2.5MPH bumpers(the damage is supposed to below a certain threshhold. The other was for headlights.

IIRC the car was able to drive away from the barrier test.
Racer X is offline  
Old 07-07-2008, 06:33 PM
  #17  
Gearhead Jim
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
Gearhead Jim's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2000
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 20,721
Thanked 626 Times in 436 Posts
St. Jude Donor '13
Default

I'm thinking that if high gas prices continue, and keep alive the trend toward smaller and higher-mileage vehicles, GM will have an easier time designing the C7. The rest of their fleet will eventually be getting such good mileage that the small effect of a C7 that gets "only" something like 20 city/30 highway, will be minimal. Potential purchasers might like a thriftier car, but many Corvettes are driven only about 5k per year. Cost savings of a thriftier C7 would be minimal.
Gearhead Jim is offline  
Old 07-08-2008, 01:56 AM
  #18  
WhiteDiamond
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
WhiteDiamond's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2001
Location: Castle Rock CO
Posts: 11,113
Thanked 58 Times in 41 Posts
St. Jude Donor '15
Default

I see weight came up in this thread a few posts back. GM is really killing itself in this arena lately. The new CTS and the new Malibu are both way over-weight for their segments. The CTS being 500lbs over and the Malibu seems to be around 300lbs over. It also mystifies me that GM can knock 350lbs out of the Tahoe/Yukon for the hybrid version, but cannot make that weight reduction standard across the board. 350lbs could be another mile per gallon of liquid gold......

Does anyone know the milage calculation for a "flexfuel" vehicle? I think GM could EASILY make the Vette line flexfuel, they just have to agree to keep the fugly "flex fuel" badge off the vette!!!

I am hoping that we see an end of the mass market SUV and the truck segment drops to support those who actually need trucks. I also believe the current truck and SUV lines could easily see a 1000lb drop in weight, but the cost is probably several K per vehicle to get there at this time. All of this is coming, though, and I think it reduces the possibility the C7 is a victim of the new CAFE rules. While I agree that we need to reduce our demand on oil, I think the government has stepped over the line with the new CAFE rules.....We could be seeing the end of the mass availability of what I consider cool/fun/enjoyable/want to drive/want to own vehicles. The rest is boring point a to point b crap....

I have to admit, a gas tax increase to support some high speed rail mass transit(like in Europe) would actually be okay by me.....35mpg CAFE is not......
WhiteDiamond is offline  
Old 07-09-2008, 12:01 AM
  #19  
0to60
CF Senior Member
 
0to60's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2000
Location: Cary IL
Posts: 489
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by WhiteDiamond View Post
If I want to put 50.00/gallon gas in my Z06, then I should be able to purchase both the gas and the Z06.
I mostly agree with letting the market sort all this out, but there is definitely a place for gov't regulation. Consider the current mortgage crisis going on. The market dictated that it would be profitable to do all this questionable financing, but when things got ugly it brought the whole economy down. Maybe we wouldn't be in this current environment had their been a little bit more regulation in that industry (as I'm sure there will be soon, remember the New Deal).



I agree 100% with "big brother" trying to steer us in oil-conservative directions. Our economy is absolutely DEPENDANT on a commodity that is sourced from some of the least stable places on earth. Its almost a single point of failure. For the good of the USA and our lifestyle, we NEED to address this issue.

And if gas ever hit $50 a gallon, filling up your Z06 would be the very least of your problems!

Last edited by 0to60; 07-09-2008 at 12:51 AM.
0to60 is offline  
Old 07-09-2008, 12:23 AM
  #20  
WhiteDiamond
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
WhiteDiamond's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2001
Location: Castle Rock CO
Posts: 11,113
Thanked 58 Times in 41 Posts
St. Jude Donor '15
Default

Originally Posted by 0to60 View Post
For the good of the USA and our lifestyle, we NEED to address this issue.
Well, this maybe true, but the good of the USA never comes before capitalism.

It certainly doesn't explain the C7's future or how to somehow circumvent Big Brother's unwanted guidance with the new 35mpg CAFE....Again, a gas tax with the money being used wisely is a MUCH BETTER option than regulating something with hard set lines.
WhiteDiamond is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: C7 and the new CAFE


Sponsored Ads
Vendor Directory

Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: