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5.5lt V-8

 
Old 10-05-2008, 02:42 PM
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I Bin Therbefor
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Default 5.5lt V-8

http://www.corvetteracing.com/histor.../racing6.shtml

"Initially we are going to start with a 6-liter version of the engine we're running now, the LS7 small-block. Obviously the rules change in 2010, so we'll be developing a 5.5-liter version of the latest GM small-block V-8."
"First and foremost, the new car will be utilizing an aluminum chassis. We'll be integrating some rather advanced technologies in that chassis. We'll be integrating a steel roll cage into the aluminum chassis. By integration I don't mean glued or bolted, as exists in the current aluminum chassis. We actually have a welding technology we've worked on with suppliers where we utilize friction welding techniques. We'll have details on that as we announce the car. It's pretty exciting stuff, and we're excited to be the first to employ it. Once again, the implementation of technology in the race car precedes the production car. It's all part of our story and the exciting legacy of Corvette."

"The key is that the new GT rules are very much based on today's GT2 cars, so there will be a lot more production content, a lot more requirement to stick closer to what the cars are on the road. Any substitutions have to come from another large volume GM product, so we'll be sticking a lot closer to production and you'll be seeing a lot more of that content."

So, will the C7 be powered by a 5.5lt V-8 that can burn a variety of fuels?
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Old 10-05-2008, 04:46 PM
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Thanx man, GM can do whatever they want! As long as the vette keeps getting faster, good looking and keeps kicking ***!
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:33 PM
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Look for something in the range of a 4.0-4.5 liter V8 single overhead cam, (one per side), four valves per cylinder, direct fuel injection, and more than likely a super charger. Big horsepower, big mileage. Say good-by to our old fashioned push rod V8's. Close your eyes and imagine "Supersharged Cadillac Northstar".
The next gen Corvette engine will look like this, except with higher compression:
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...ady/index.html
Remember, you heard it here first....

Last edited by Tim01Coupe; 10-05-2008 at 08:51 PM. Reason: Added link
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Old 10-05-2008, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Tim01Coupe View Post
Look for something in the range of a 4.0-4.5 liter V8 single overhead cam, (one per side), four valves per cylinder, direct fuel injection, and more than likely a super charger. Big horsepower, big mileage. Say good-by to our old fashioned push rod V8's. Close your eyes and imagine "Supersharged Cadillac Northstar".
The next gen Corvette engine will look like this, except with higher compression:
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...ady/index.html
Remember, you heard it here first....

Nice find.

I don't think the Vett will go this way. It turns out that the Northstar is not a drop in replacement for the pushrod V-8. When the C6 was first being designed, the Northstar was being considered as a back up engine if the pushrod couldn't produce the HP. In the event, they had to drop that plan becuase of fit problems. I don't know what they did to the chassis to make the Northstar fit the Cad roadster, but I do know it doesn't just drop in to a Vett. Couple of other problems are the cost of the engine due to complexity, number of valves, etc; the weigth of the engine and the higher center of gravity of the engine.

What I like best about the announcement is the case for continue existence of the Corvette that is being built by this racing program.

"Once again, the implementation of technology in the race car precedes the production car. It's all part of our story and the exciting legacy of Corvette."

"The key is that the new GT rules are very much based on today's GT2 cars, so there will be a lot more production content, a lot more requirement to stick closer to what the cars are on the road. Any substitutions have to come from another large volume GM product, so we'll be sticking a lot closer to production and you'll be seeing a lot more of that content."
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Old 10-06-2008, 08:25 AM
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This is where the development is NOW for the next GM V8 for the Truck AND Corvette. Historically, the Chevy trucks and Corvettes have essentially the same motor, even back to the Blue Flame Six, that was a truck engine. Development stage currently is one cam per side, with supercharging or a turbo with higher compression. This is not speculation, this is what is currently being worked on. Direct injection, SOHC, boosted. "Drop in replacement" to the old push rod V8 will not fly with the next gen. This Cadillac DOHC is already being built in the SAME PLANT as the Corvette engines in Wixom, Cadillacs are being built in Bowling Green. New truck engines are already in deep development for torque, gas mileage and power to come VERY close to huffer diesel standards. GM does not like multiple similar-use platforms and a push rod V8 and DOHC V8 is essentially duplication. Overhead cam and direct injection has more power and better fuel economy. This will be the future in trucks and Corvettes. Look for SOHC and four valves for better reliability instead of dual cam with four or five valves.
Bet the farm that the next gen Corvette engine has direct injection, overhead cam (one or two) and around 4.5 liter displacement. Again, this is not speculation, this is reality based on current development in Detroit.
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:44 AM
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I keep hearing about the superiority of OHCs in terms of economy. Can please post a list of the massed produced cars over 400HP that get better economy than the Corvette, are OHC, and of similar power to the Corvette being compared(i.e. not a 400HP car that gets better mileage than the ZR1, but better than the base Corvette)?

Don't SOHC have the same dimensional issues as DOHCs?

While the Cadillac XLR is bult in Bowling Green the XLR had to have a higher hoodline and other modifications to fit the Northstar because the DOHC is bigger even though the displacement is smaller, and less powerful, and less fuel efficient, all at the same time.
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Old 10-06-2008, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Racer X View Post
I keep hearing about the superiority of OHCs in terms of economy. Can please post a list of the massed produced cars over 400HP that get better economy than the Corvette, are OHC, and of similar power to the Corvette being compared(i.e. not a 400HP car that gets better mileage than the ZR1, but better than the base Corvette)?

Don't SOHC have the same dimensional issues as DOHCs?

While the Cadillac XLR is bult in Bowling Green the XLR had to have a higher hoodline and other modifications to fit the Northstar because the DOHC is bigger even though the displacement is smaller, and less powerful, and less fuel efficient, all at the same time.
I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that the dohc and northstar v8's are the ones that got dropped from development. I happen to own a brand new Cadillac SRX with the northstar V8 and I have to tell you, it's not going to get any awards for gas mileage.

Direct injection, yes, it will improve performance and mileage. Overhead cams, NO, they do nothing for performance, weight and size. They DO help the motors rev higher which is needed for small displacement to get the power but it's at the expense of weight and size. Fuel mileage is usually worse. That's why there are numerous smaller displacement engines with multicams and multivalves that can't get the mileage of a good old Corvette.
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Old 10-08-2008, 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted by robvuk View Post
That's why there are numerous smaller displacement engines with multicams and multivalves that can't get the mileage of a good old Corvette.
Well in all fairness, put the same gearing in the vette that the cars your talking about have and see how the mileage stacks up. If your going to compare fuel economy of the engine itself and not the car as a whole, you need to keep a few things constant.
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Old 10-08-2008, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by PaintballaXX View Post
Well in all fairness, put the same gearing in the vette that the cars your talking about have and see how the mileage stacks up. If your going to compare fuel economy of the engine itself and not the car as a whole, you need to keep a few things constant.
The reason they need the gearing is because they lack the low-end torque. Engines by themselves don't get any mileage because they go nowhere. You have to consider the whole car.
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Old 10-08-2008, 01:08 PM
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nice find
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Old 10-08-2008, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Racer X View Post
The reason they need the gearing is because they lack the low-end torque. Engines by themselves don't get any mileage because they go nowhere. You have to consider the whole car.
If you drop in those smaller engines to a corvette (lets imagine everything just slides into place) the car would get better mileage. Of course performance would suffer greatly. The milage to performance ratio of a corvette is amazing, Im sure all us corvette owners know. The problem with the ls engines, even when mated to our lazy gear boxes, is the emissions.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by PaintballaXX View Post
If you drop in those smaller engines to a corvette (lets imagine everything just slides into place) the car would get better mileage. Of course performance would suffer greatly. The milage to performance ratio of a corvette is amazing, Im sure all us corvette owners know. The problem with the ls engines, even when mated to our lazy gear boxes, is the emissions.
The Ferrari has one of those smaller engines, the milage is crap compared to the Corvette. Put taller gearing in it and the acceleration of the Ferrari would suffer by comparison to the Corvette.

You just do not understand how truly advanced and efficient the LSx engine is when put in a car in the real world. You are fixated on the OHC as a superior design. It is a different design. They are both very old, OHV and OHC are both 80+ years old.

I am still waiting for the list of 400hp+ cars that get better mileage (no hybrids). So far the list has no cars on it.

Demonstrate the fuel efficency superiority of the DOHC design by put some cars on the list, then I will start giving your claims credibility.
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Old 10-09-2008, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Racer X View Post
The Ferrari has one of those smaller engines, the milage is crap compared to the Corvette. Put taller gearing in it and the acceleration of the Ferrari would suffer by comparison to the Corvette.

You just do not understand how truly advanced and efficient the LSx engine is when put in a car in the real world. You are fixated on the OHC as a superior design. It is a different design. They are both very old, OHV and OHC are both 80+ years old.

I am still waiting for the list of 400hp+ cars that get better mileage (no hybrids). So far the list has no cars on it.

Demonstrate the fuel efficency superiority of the DOHC design by put some cars on the list, then I will start giving your claims credibility.
If you drop one of those smaller displacement multi valve units into the vette, even if you could get it to fit with the same HP, it will not make the torque at 1500 rpm to keep it going at 70 mph like the Vette does. So you MUST change the gearing to accommodate. THAT is where the mileage goes out the window. 4 valves is great at 6000+ rpm but not at street/cruising speeds. More efficient at high rpm trading off efficiency for low rpm nets nothing.
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Old 10-09-2008, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Tim01Coupe View Post
Bet the farm that the next gen Corvette engine has direct injection, overhead cam (one or two) and around 4.5 liter displacement. Again, this is not speculation, this is reality based on current development in Detroit.
I will totally take you up on that bet. How much are you willing to put up? Think carefully, because you're going to lose badly.

The Northstar Caddy engine is being dropped, not enhanced and continued. The STS-V and XLR-V engines being built in Wixom are going away, because both of those cars are on their deathbeds. OHC V8s are not in GM's future anytime soon. Small, efficient, light-weight OHV engines will continue to be their go-to engine for power and fuel economy.

Your source, your information, and your speculations are all way, way off. It's wishful thinking. Not reality, not fact, and not anything other than that.

jas
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Old 10-09-2008, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by robvuk View Post
If you drop one of those smaller displacement multi valve units into the vette, even if you could get it to fit with the same HP, it will not make the torque at 1500 rpm to keep it going at 70 mph like the Vette does. So you MUST change the gearing to accommodate. THAT is where the mileage goes out the window. 4 valves is great at 6000+ rpm but not at street/cruising speeds. More efficient at high rpm trading off efficiency for low rpm nets nothing.

unless they slap a twin screw on top of that beast.
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Old 10-10-2008, 12:07 AM
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I already admitted that the lsx engines give u great mileage to performance. I never denied that. The point im trying to get across is mpg to emissions ratio is off. The performance and mileage combo are great, and if you re-read my posts you will see that I already stated that.
As to the the Ferrari engine comment. Those cars get crap mileage.. When i said drop in a smaller displacement engine I meant something along the lines of a Civic engine. Before you say thats absurd, Im trying to point out that the civic engine has less power and torque at cruising rpm but would still return higher mpg. (at the sacrifice of performance).
Higher torque at cruising rpm returns higher mpg in a NA engine. However, emissions still presents a problem. I believe that's 1 of the reasons Chevy/GM said they went with a blown setup. Mileage went down, but emissions were still legal. Maybe they just didn't want to use more than 7 liters, IDK.

Last edited by PaintballaXX; 10-10-2008 at 12:14 AM.
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Old 10-10-2008, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by PaintballaXX View Post
I already admitted that the lsx engines give u great mileage to performance. I never denied that. The point im trying to get across is mpg to emissions ratio is off. The performance and mileage combo are great, and if you re-read my posts you will see that I already stated that.
As to the the Ferrari engine comment. Those cars get crap mileage.. When i said drop in a smaller displacement engine I meant something along the lines of a Civic engine. Before you say thats absurd, Im trying to point out that the civic engine has less power and torque at cruising rpm but would still return higher mpg. (at the sacrifice of performance).
Higher torque at cruising rpm returns higher mpg in a NA engine. However, emissions still presents a problem. I believe that's 1 of the reasons Chevy/GM said they went with a blown setup. Mileage went down, but emissions were still legal. Maybe they just didn't want to use more than 7 liters, IDK.
OK I'll bite. Which emissions? CO2 grams per mile? NOx?

Which 400+ HP car gets better emissions than the Corvette?
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Old 10-10-2008, 01:27 AM
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Doesn't matter what 400 hp cars get better mileage/emissions than a vette. Ill I know is I see many cars with much less fuel economy but somehow have better emissions. If you guys think the ls1/6 and Ls2/3/9 and ls7 are perfect than you guys are mistaken. That kind of thinking would halt engine development and we would all be stuck using an lt1. Im not saying to move in the direction of the lt5. After all, the ls6 gave us more power with a simpler design.

I think that you guys think Im advocating OHC or DOHC engines when I only mentioned such engines (although never explicitly) when talking about emissions.

What I would like to see is some derivative of the ls family with some sort of variable valve timing (allowing us to have low end torque / fuel economy when cruising and higher hp when in the power band) and direct injection with ultra lean modes for better fuel economy. Direct injection also could help with top end power as well. The L92 already has vvt and direct injection is found on the Sky Redline / Solstice GXP.

Last edited by PaintballaXX; 10-10-2008 at 01:57 AM.
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Old 10-12-2008, 08:50 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by I Bin Therbefor View Post
http://www.corvetteracing.com/histor.../racing6.shtml

"Initially we are going to start with a 6-liter version of the engine we're running now, the LS7 small-block. Obviously the rules change in 2010, so we'll be developing a 5.5-liter version of the latest GM small-block V-8."
"First and foremost, the new car will be utilizing an aluminum chassis. We'll be integrating some rather advanced technologies in that chassis. We'll be integrating a steel roll cage into the aluminum chassis. By integration I don't mean glued or bolted, as exists in the current aluminum chassis. We actually have a welding technology we've worked on with suppliers where we utilize friction welding techniques. We'll have details on that as we announce the car. It's pretty exciting stuff, and we're excited to be the first to employ it. Once again, the implementation of technology in the race car precedes the production car. It's all part of our story and the exciting legacy of Corvette."

"The key is that the new GT rules are very much based on today's GT2 cars, so there will be a lot more production content, a lot more requirement to stick closer to what the cars are on the road. Any substitutions have to come from another large volume GM product, so we'll be sticking a lot closer to production and you'll be seeing a lot more of that content."

So, will the C7 be powered by a 5.5lt V-8 that can burn a variety of fuels?
In the TV interview it was said that the racing program was also an educational program to prove to people that cars in the future are still going to be exciting to drive.

From all the above IMO, the C7 will have at least one version with a high tech 5.5lt V-8 of the latest GM high tech small block. All the technologies mentioned so far, DI, VVT, multiple valves, even cylinder deactivation (for the automatic trans cars) have been demonistrated on versions of the small block either as experiments or in production. Overhead cams simply aren't needed.
Further IMO, we're going to see more extensive use of aluminum in the chassis utilizing the friction welding technique. All C7s will use aluminum optimized designs for the chassis, reducing weight more.
As all GM cars will be reducing weight, we'll see bits and pieces of light weight components for everything from AC to batteries from the GM parts bin.
I doubt if we'll see anything that isn't known about right now. Simply the application of a sound engineering development of the
current C6.
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Old 10-29-2008, 07:54 PM
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i wish make it 3,5
to make it scream like the Ferrari
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