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News on the C7...

 
Old 10-07-2008, 11:03 PM
  #21  
edbrick
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Its going to be the last hurrah for allot of models. IMO if this current market doesn't improve all models not turning a profit will be canceled including Corvette why continue to fund something not making a profit. Its just bad business.
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Old 10-07-2008, 11:08 PM
  #22  
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All I can say is it's been a hell of a run with these VETTES just getting better and better the last 20+ years!!I'm glad I got my 08 436 HP LS3 V8!!She ain't going nowhere!!!
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Old 10-07-2008, 11:09 PM
  #23  
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:lea ving:
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Old 10-07-2008, 11:26 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by FM View Post
Pure speculation. The people who know aren't talking but people who don't know are talking a lot.
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Old 10-07-2008, 11:49 PM
  #25  
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That pic looks like a Corvette squeezed into a saturn sky. So what are you trying to say?
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Old 10-08-2008, 12:00 AM
  #26  
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To the OP,

Thanks for the post. Those of us that casually troll appreciate your effort. Don't mind some of the others, their strings are up the sphincter. They'll be alright when they reach back and pull em' out.


Originally Posted by FM View Post
Pure speculation. The people who know aren't talking but people who don't know are talking a lot.
+1!!!

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Old 10-08-2008, 12:08 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Fuego View Post
3-4 hundred pounds lighter is NOT going to make up for a 136hp loss.
I said almost as quick. Some compromises might have to be made.

Originally Posted by C6LSx View Post
I wouldn't bet the retirement account on that assumption.

The only "global engine" in the GM portfolio is the Holden sourced Alloytec V6.

Factory forged crank, forged rods and slugs to match.

It it's current direct injection form; in the Cadillac CTS with a factory PCM calibration; lays down 304 BHP.

Aftermarket CAI, performance catback exhausts and AFR MAP recalibrations are netting 340 SAE BHP on the same V6 Alloytec.

As a GM global engine; this little darling in a low boost turbocharged trim will lay down 375 BHP with a 50 state AFR MAP PCM calibration according to GM.

IMO; as this engine is future powerplant in a turbocharged form in the next C7; much like the turbocharged V6 in the Nissan GT-R
You may be right, but I pray your wrong.

Corvette's and V8 power have been pretty much synonymous over the years. I hate to see that change.
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Old 10-08-2008, 12:13 AM
  #28  
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Yep been posted.
But I for one like the design --
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Old 10-08-2008, 12:19 AM
  #29  
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I could see the C7 looking something like that yeliow car in the picture.And i will be buying one but will wait until the third year like i did in 86.I think by the third year all the bugs are out and you get a real good car.Even though my 05 has been trouble free i'm always waiting for something catastrophic to happen.
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Old 10-08-2008, 12:42 AM
  #30  
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The Corvette might die to me if the put a V6 in it....yea it says Corvette on it but there hasent been a V6 in a vette since 54

Miles
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Old 10-08-2008, 01:19 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by randommj View Post
The Corvette might die to me if the put a V6 in it....yea it says Corvette on it but there hasent been a V6 in a vette since 54

Miles
Actually, the original '53s and '54s came with only the old "stovebolt 6," an inline 6, by the way, hopped up to 150hp with three single barrel carter side draft carbs and a hotter cam. Then in 1955 they offered the newly introduced 265 cu V8. And as they say, the Corvette was on its way to becoming a legend.

Now, figuring that the big displacement V8s may be passing on soon, I will continue to enjoy my 427 for many years to come.
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Old 10-08-2008, 01:23 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by spares View Post
I dunno about you, but to me it almost looks like a photochopped Z06? a little tug and squeeze of the car
:o
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Old 10-08-2008, 01:25 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Vasta View Post
I said almost as quick. Some compromises might have to be made.



You may be right, but I pray your wrong.

Corvette's and V8 power have been pretty much synonymous over the years. I hate to see that change.
Originally Posted by randommj View Post
The Corvette might die to me if the put a V6 in it....yea it says Corvette on it but there hasent been a V6 in a vette since 54

Miles

Tom Wallace pretty much summarized the landscape of the future with regard to this statement that the future of the Corvette (C7) will take into account a significant reduction in weight through the use of composite materials with an emphasis on improved fuel economy and a reduced carbon footprint that will provide virtually the same performance that is currently achieved with a 400 HP LS V8 engine.

Tom stated that at first glance; a 300 BHP engine with better fuel economy and a reduced carbon footprint mated to a 2800 pound vehicle platform would/could perhaps provide virtually the same 0-60 and 1/4 mile performance that is currently obtained with a 400 BHP 3200 pound platform.

GM needs to cut costs and still provide technologically advanced automobiles that meet consumers wants and needs.

One means of GM cutting costs is to reduce the costs of the GM Global Parts Bin and the Alloytec V6 VVT DOHC DI Engine is one way of doing that.

In a turbocharged or supercharged form; the Alloytec is easily capable of producing 400 BHP.

The Aussie tuners are currently getting up to 422 BHP in a N/A form out of this little Alloytec 190 VVT DI V6 engine!!

RPM redline is at approximately 9000 RPM's and IMO this engine's exhaust note sounds as good as any of the Euro offerings.

http://www.performancemanifolds.com.au/

This same engine is used currently be used by Holden, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Buick, Saab, etc.

This Alloytec 190 V6 3.6 liter engine represents close to a billion dollars to date in joint GM/Holden investment dollars into a global engine that runs on petrol, diesel, LPG and natural gas as well.

I'm not a gambling man (never bought a lottery ticket in my life", but I'll go out on a limb and would bet that you'll see the Alloytec DI V6 engine in a FI form in the 2014-2015 C7.

Like it or not folks; the Alloytec V6 is GM's engine of the future and I believe you'll absolutely see this engine in perhaps several trim forms in the next generation C7 Corvette.

I believe that the current V8 LS large displacement engines are absolutely dead going forward in the next generation Corvette. This does not mean however that performance is dead in moving forward with the Alloytec 190 VVT DOHC DI V6 engine.

If Porsche has been able to provide a continued and every evolving viable sports car offering with a 6 cylinder engine and Nissan is able to offer a 468 BHP turbocharged V6 engine in the new GT-R; there is no reason in the world why GM can't compete on the world's sports car platform and provide still provide a world class performance Corvette with a V6 engine.

Last edited by C6LSx; 10-08-2008 at 01:31 AM.
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Old 10-08-2008, 01:43 AM
  #34  
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A 3.6L V6???
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Old 10-08-2008, 01:52 AM
  #35  
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Plus a V6 would help in getting down to their target weight.

Another thing that has always bothered me is, a few months ago GM announced the Sky and Solstice would be built at BG in the near future.

Shared platforms maybe? Maybe a whole new chassis design? Who knows...but it's fun to speculate.
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Old 10-08-2008, 02:06 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by larvette View Post
A 3.6L V6???
If in fact; GM and Tom Wallace is committed to producing a world class C7 by utilizing kevlar & carbon fiber composite body panels, a hydroformed aluminum chassis, forged aluminum and magnesium support componets, a lighter weight FWD engine and associated drivetrain; there's no reason in the world why the next generation Corvette cannot come in at 2700 pounds or lose 500 pounds of existing weight.

While traditionally, it's far more expensive to take out weight than add horsepower; that's where the performance future of the next Corvette is.

And being a low volume vehicle; you can expect it to come at a cost.

But like anything; as manufacturing technology evolves, so do costs.

And with that said; lighter weight carbon fiber/magnesium wheels, carbon ceramic brake rotors as used in the current C16 may very well find themselves in the next C7 Corvette.

Moving to carbon ceramic brake rotors and carbon fiber/magnesium wheels can result in a weight reduction of perhaps 20 pounds per corner of unsprung weight or 80 pounds total.

While reducing 20 pounds of unsprung weight per corner might not seem like alot at face value; think of it in this perspective to put the performance and braking in a newer perspective: Try running a 40 yard dash is a pair of Army boots and then do the same 40 yard dash in a pair of Nike cross training running shoes. That's what reducing unsprung weight does for a sports cars performance!

But don't underestimate the power of a 3.6 liter direct injected V6 engine.

This GM Global Alloytec 3.6 Liter V6 is a state of the art engine.

Although not street legal or EPA compliant; the smaller Alloytech 3.2 liter little brother of the 3.6 Alloytec was tuned to produce almost 1100 horsepower by Lund Performance Engineering 4 years ago.

If Porsche can routinely get 345-420 BHP out of a naturally aspirated flat 6; you can almost bet that the Alloytec will find its way into the next generation Corvette.

Water-cooled six-cylinder boxer; 3,598 cc; stroke 76.4 mm (3.01"); bore 99.98 mm (3.94"); max output 420 bhp (309 kW); max torque 420 Nm (310 lb-ft); max engine speed 8,400 rpm; four-valve technology; dry sump lubrication; two-stage resonance intake distributor; central air intake; electronic MS 3.1 engine management; fuel injection (multi-point, sequential); racing exhaust with fully controlled catalytic converter (400 cells); rear silencer with centrally mounted double tailpipe; special exhaust tailpipes for the Porsche Mobil1 Supercup.

Last edited by C6LSx; 10-08-2008 at 02:14 AM.
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Old 10-08-2008, 04:49 AM
  #37  
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at the end of 2009 model year i will purchase aZ06. THEN I DONT CARE WHAT GM DOES?
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Old 10-08-2008, 09:12 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Vasta View Post
Plus a V6 would help in getting down to their target weight.

Another thing that has always bothered me is, a few months ago GM announced the Sky and Solstice would be built at BG in the near future.

Shared platforms maybe? Maybe a whole new chassis design? Who knows...but it's fun to speculate.
Based on Tom Wallace's sentiments of what the next C7 Corvette will look like; which is namely a much lighter weight and technologically advanced chassis platform, a high feature global RWD engine and drivtrain system with the overall objective of shrinking the current C6 carbon footprint and fuel emissions with a goal of producing a next generation Corvette that is 500 pounds lighter and produces an estimated 300 BHP range that will provide similiar performance numbers that are currently achieved in a heavier C6 3200 pound 400 BHP V8 engine.

IMO; this certainly spells out the introduction of GM's 1 Billion Dollar Global high feature Alloytec 190 VVT DOHC DI Engine in perhaps both a 325 BHP NA Form and an optional 400 BHP Turbocharged or Supercharged Form as well for the Z06.

While it's all certainly entertaining speculation on my part, but on the other hand you have to be living under a rock if you don't believe that it is imperative for GM to shrink its Global Parts Bin.

And with that said; the high feature Alloytec 3.6 Liter V6 Engine with VVT DOHC DI is engineered for both petrol, diesel, LPG and natural gas.

The flex fuel capabilities of this bullet proof high feature V6 is really what GM needs in their Global Parts Bin to compete in a Global Market with varying Global emissions requirements, fuel costs and CAFE standards.

Here's an interesting "quip" of information on the Alloytech V6 from GM Insider regarding the thought process of this engine finding its way into the C7 Corvette.

For your reading pleasure:

MILFORD, Mich.Even before the tires had cooled on what is the fastest, most powerful Corvette ever to hit the streets of America—we're talking about the 2009 Corvette ZR1 of course—we couldn't help but wonder: How in the world are they going to top this?

"We can't comment on future product," came the usual, deadpanned reply from the engineers on hand here at the test track. But we have other sources. And we tapped them to find out if there was any truth to the mid-engine rumors, if certain powertrains had been locked in this far ahead of schedule and exactly what design direction the next Vette might take.

So here's our best guess for what General Motors has in store for the C7 Corvette. But keep in mind that a lot can happen between now and 2014, when this car is set to debut. Thanks to high fuel prices, the auto industry has changed more in the past two years than it has in the past decade. So don't be surprised if what you read here differs from the fiberglass, steel and aluminum reality of the future.


The Architecture
One thing we know with certainty is that the mid-engine Corvette—the one that pops up as a production possibility every decade or so—remains just a wistful idea. "The mid-engine Corvette is simply too expensive," says auto analyst Jim Hall of 2953 Analytics. "It would need costly new tooling and offers little weight savings because it requires an extra, metal-intensive firewall."

The Corvette rides a fine line between price and demand. The median Corvette price hovers in the low-$50,000 range, and the Chevy folks say that a fair number of buyers stretch, financially, to own one. Chevy currently moves about 30,000 Vettes every year, which—combined with a few thousand Cadillac XLRs (it uses the Corvette platform)—keeps the Bowling Green, Ky., factory humming along efficiently at the plant's designed output. The current production levels earn GM a tidy profit, too. Raise the price and demand will fall, resulting in costly plant downtime that could very well erode one of GM's moneymakers.

So the mid-engine design is out, and that means the next Corvette will retain the front-engine, rear-transmission layout of the current car. That architecture dictates that the dimensions—wheelbase, length and width—won't change dramatically, although the size will probably shrink slightly. But part of the Corvette's appeal is its roominess and generous cargo space, and those attributes are likely to remain.


The Drivetrain
But what exactly will ride in that engine bay up front? It's nearly impossible to imagine a Corvette without a V8, but some interesting options are on the table. "I would say that a twin-turbo V6 is a very strong possibility," says Paul Lacy of Global Insight. A twin-turbo version of the direct-injection 3.6-liter DOHC Alloytec V6 that's currently in the Cadillac CTS could easily pump out 400 hp—just 36 shy of today's V8.

While there may be a V6 as the base engine, turbocharging and variable valve timing are distinct possibilities to make those smaller V6s really move. It's still too early to know exactly what the powertrain lineup will look like, but expect three levels of performance similar to today's—base, Z06 and ZR1. Yes, we have heard that the ZR1 could live on in the C7.


The Fuel Efficiency

The drive to smaller, turbocharged engines is a response to expected higher fuel prices—not to mention the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 that mandates a fleet, fuel-economy average of 35 mpg by 2020. (Shorter-term regulations are still under debate). Since the Corvette accounts for only 2 percent of GM's car fleet—and therefore doesn't have a huge impact on the company's fleet-wide average—the swift sports car won't be required to hit lofty fuel-economy targets. Still, fuel efficiency will certainly improve to satisfy customer demand, and to avoid the stiffer gas-guzzler taxes that many think are on the horizon. Remember, price is critical to the success of the Corvette, and GM brass will want to avoid fuel-use surcharges—however expensive they may be.

Development money is tight at GM. We've heard the majority of research funds have been channeled to future hybrid programs, and, of course, completing the costly Volt plug-in range extended hybrid and it's E-Flex chassis counterparts. So there's not enough money to develop the dual-clutch automated transmission that the Corvette really needs. A twin-clutch gearbox with seven gears would allow a wide ratio spread to help save fuel and replace two transmissions—the automatic and manual—with one. But the cost to engineer and produce a new transmission is expensive—over a half a billion dollars. And the resulting unit would only be suitable for the Corvette. So it's out—for now.


The Light Weight
As one might imagine, lighter-weight materials will play a role in increasing the Corvette's fuel economy. While the current car is already quite light—the Corvette Z06 weighs just 3200 pounds, hundreds less than the Dodge Viper and Porsche 911—we expect the next car to trim even more weight.

"Carbon fiber and aluminum have been something of a drug for the Corvette crew," says Hall. And those lightweight materials, he surmises, will be tapped to a larger degree with the next car. One possibility is to ditch the steel frame that's currently used by the base and convertible Corvettes and exclusively employ the aluminum frame of the Z06 and ZR1. That move alone would save 136 pounds. "The real trick will be finding ways to make the car lighter without passing too much cost on to customers," Hall insists. "Sure, they could substitute carbon-fiber body panels for fiberglass, but carbon fiber is multiples of 10 more expensive. The majority of the development dollars are going into finding cost-effective ways to make it lighter."



The Design
Take comfort that the next Vette will be styled by the same talented team that's penned such recent stunners as the Cadillac CTS, the Pontiac Solstice Coupe and the Chevy Camaro. Expect the next 2012 Corvette to have even more swagger and attitude and to possibly use elements from the recently seen (but horrendously named) Corvette Centennial Design Concept. Retractable headlights—long a Corvette trademark—will not be making a return; European pedestrian-impact standards have effectively killed that design element. But the next headlights will be better integrated, and LEDs will probably be part of that program.

The Bottom Line
The C7 Corvette won't be the mid-engine answer to the Ford GT. And its performance probably won't substantially eclipse the current car. But with lighter-weight and similar horsepower outputs, the C7 is sure to be an all-around tasty recipe. The Corvette is one of the best sports-car bargains on the road today. So with another five years of development time, it can only get more refined, more stylish and more fuel-efficient, too. We're already salivating.

My Closing Thoughts:

IMO; 500 pounds of weight can be found in using the hydroformed aluminum rails on all C7 chassis for a net savings of 136 pounds.

The use of carbon ceramic brake rotors at each of the four corners would result in a total weight savings of approximately 40-50 pounds.

The use of carbon fiber wheel barrels and forged aluminum wheel centers would result in a weight savings of approximately 40-50 pounds.

So between the hydroformed aluminum frame and the proposed carbon ceramic brake rotors with carbon fiber/kevlar composite wheel barrels and forged wheel centers spells an estimated weight savings of approximately 225 pounds already.

Certainly the Alloytec V6 is going to weigh much less than the current LS3 V8 and would perhaps provide a weight savings of possibly an additional 100 pounds.

So realistically; 100 pounds of unsprung weight can be trimmed from the current brake system and cast aluminum wheel stock, another 100 pounds from the V8 to V6 engine and finally another 136 pounds in using the hydroformed aluminum chassis for a total weight savings already of 300 plus pounds.

I'll leave it up to the GM engineers to find the other 200 pounds in weight savings in light weight composite materials etc, but realistically the Corvette engineers should be able to bring in a well designed C7 Corvette that tips the scales at no more than 2800 pounds maximum and ideally at 2700 pounds.

By comparison; the Nissan GT-R is producing 468 BHP with a twin turbocharged V6 and tips the scales at 4000 pounds and still delivers blistering speed and performance.

Tell me honestly who would not be interested in a 2700 pound C7 Corvette (1300 pounds less than the GT-R) with either a RWD 325 BHP NA Alloytec DOHC DI V6 engine and certainly a RWD 400 BHP twin turbocharged Alloytech DOHC DI V6 engine?
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Old 10-08-2008, 09:30 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Vasta View Post
Yep! It's been posted before.

I don't think you will ever see a V-6 Vette. Tom Wallace did say the C7 will be about 300 to 400 pounds lighter and probably have around 300HP. Which should keep it almost as quick.
Great news....for Lingenfelter.
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Old 10-08-2008, 10:33 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by JT Metal View Post
Looks like A funky version of a Saturn Sky..........
I was thinking the same thing
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