30YR W8T

What you are missing is this is not just about the US, GM has stated several time this is to be a global platform. It may be hard for you to accept, but the rest of the world does not think like we do nor do they care about a large displacement V8. I have seen no pricing announced on what the new C7 will cost based on what engine the car is selected with. Have you?

Long stroke is relative to how the engine is built, which we have no idea how that will be accomplished at this point. There are several high revving small displacement V10's and 12 cylinders out there, so what the concern with a high revving V8?

Where did GM find the time and money to develop and build the most powerful naturally aspirated Small block in the history of the company, where did they have the time and money to figure out how to squeeze 427 cubic inches out of an all aluminum small block that used a dry sump system and titanium rods? Where did they find the time or money to develop a a supercharged engine that develops 630+ HP and has the inter cooler up top instead of below? Common sense man, GM is a rather large company with some serious resources.

There are two cars in the current lineup that can play with the big boys, the Z06 and the ZR1, the rest can't. However, those in the playground did not take kindly to a much cheaper car stepping on to their turf. So they have raised the bar and playing with them is not so easy anymore. There are several comparison where some European six cylinder muscle gave there current top Corvette offering all they wanted and then some with that current technology you think is good enough.

30YR W8T

I guess its hard to think about future technology and improvements when you ignore what is happening in the global automotive industry. You won't see the possibilities, nor will you pick up on whats being hinted at with a very narrow focus band. Probably just wasting my time explaining this but oh well, at least its Corvette related.

Racer X

The price of gas in Europe is about $8.00 a US Gallon.

Please name the 190 MPH Sports cars in Europe that use 4 cylinders? How about 3 cylinders. Their market is not people that 3 cylinder commuter cars. They only have one 4 cylinder car with a roof that gets in the 4-4.5 sec 0-60 range and it weighs about 2000 pounds.

The market they are in just doesn't isn't the 3 and 4 cyliinder cars. They are sixes(Porsche) and V-8s and V10s and v12s.

JustinStrife

I'm not ignoring them. You however, are ignoring the primary market that the Corvette is sold to, and you are ignoring it badly. You are also ignoring, what the old technology ZR1 has done at the ring vs those technological wonders.

CitationZ06

I just don't like the idea of a piston wizzing at 10,000rmp up to top dead center then STOP and change direction back down. The wrist pins and valves all need to move very fast and with very strongs springs, strong oil system, and heat removial due to the friction. Na you can keep that. I also don't want to get on it to pass and see 2000 3000 4000 go damit 5000 6000 6500 yawnn 7000 7500 8000 weeeee 8500 9000 ok this is fun9500 Quick SHIFT

Jeff W

That's my point. The piston velocity @10k rpm combined with a long stroke = certain engine doom. There is a reason why high rpm engines are short stroke.

30YR W8T

Gas in Norway is over $9.00 per gallon for one.

You missed my point and no where did I indicate anything about a "sports car" with a 3 or 4 cylinder engine. the references provided are to point out that small liter engine can make some serious HP and deliver better fuel economy. I already mention the six in the Porsche, you know the one that gave the ZR1 some trouble. We have 4 cylinder cars here that with some work will exceed 190 MPH and I am sure you have seen or read about them. Are they production cars, no but they do showcase the capabilities.

But back to your 4 cylinder sports car question. I guess you never thought of a Lotus being a sports car with its turbo charged 4 cylinder or the Renault Cleo being a sports car with its turbo charged four cylinder, or the Ford Focus R with its 300+ HP turbo charged 4 cylinder engine. Germany, the Netherlands, Spain, and the other European countries have a primary market for smaller displacement engines. Yes there are those with the financial means to own V6, V8 and larger engines, but they are the exception to the rule. In Europe you pay a road tax that is based on the car, in Europe you must maintain tires on the car that are rated for that cars speed capability, in Europe American made cars are far more expensive to maintain due to parts availability and that is why only those with the financial means own a Corvette there period. If you live there, have lived there or ever been there, then you should understand this.

In the US this is not the case, but the market in the US is slowly moving toward smaller displacement engines whether you want to recognize that or not. If you were around in the late 70's, you were able to see what happened and in which direction the automotive industry went in the US. Big V8's were made anemic for fuel economy, 4 and 6 cylinder cars outsold the V8 market hands down. Well we are there once more and everything indicates we will do the same thing again.

Again, if you want to tap into the global market you can not do that successfully using just what works here in the US, you must tailor a vehicle or Sports Car that appeals to the global market. Not sure why that is so hard for some to understand.

mikes1hog

So here comes the 2012 C6; people are ordering already. June 2012 is a year away; and there is another year to order a C6 2013 model?? What happened to "this is the last year (2012) for the C6."

JustinStrife

You are still ignoring the facts that I have presented to you. So sad.

30YR W8T

The primary market is the US for the current car. However, the target for the C7 is the global market, which you are ignoring badly. To succeed in a Global market you must present a product that appeals to that market. The big three could not survive if the US was there only market and as a result all of them market on a global scale and have vehicles tailored to those markets. Many of those vehicles we can not get in this country unfortunately.

GM is not interested in keeping the Corvette a niche vehicle just in the US, they want to sell that car where ever they can. Go take a look at the last few years production numbers for the Corvette and see what percentage went overseas, GM wants that percentage to increase. Remember the US is a mature market with very little capability for broad market growth. However, across the pond is a different story and that is where growth possibilities exist if you can deliver a product that appeals to that market. GM needs to make money while expanding its market share and the overseas markets are where the greatest opportunities exist. Sticking with the Big V8's will only tap a very, very small percentage as has been demonstrated thus far with the C6.

The ZR1 is a fantastic car, don't get me wrong on this as I would love to own one. But, make no mistake here, the rest of the sports car industry will not just sit back and do nothing about those capabilities the ZR1 currently has. The difference is they will surpass those capabilities with technology and engineering. In this country we have just begun talking about direct injection, while that has been the norm for some time now in Europe. This is where GM, Ford, Chrysler all need to step up if they want to compete. Ever wonder why the American Automotive industry has such a hard time even maintaining a portion of the US market? Ever wonder why is it so hard for American made cars to sell abroad?

30YR W8T

I left an answer for you, don't feel sad for me I am okay really....but I do appreciate your concern.

JustinStrife

The Corvette is still THE car people think of, when they think of American cars. Especially from a performance standpoint. So even though GM wants to sell Corvettes in Europe, they absolutely cannot alienate their American market base. Also, incase you haven't noticed, most of the manufacturers overseas are increasing the displacement of their flagship cars. The Porsche, the Ferrari, the GT-R, etc are all going to larger engines. The days of big V8s are not gone. Not even close. Technology has come a LONG way from the 70's and 80's.

Another thing about the Corvette, is that it has always been the affordable sports car that has been competing with Porsche for decades, yet at a fraction of the price.

The Corvette's engines get better fuel economy, better reliability, more cost effective, more horsepower, more compact, and probably are even more eco friendly than any of it's competitors.

GM would be much smarter to have another model to market in Europe, rather than trying to appeal to two different markets with one model, and screwing the whole thing up. GM is dumb, but I don't believe they are that dumb.

30YR W8T

Yes they are and what market do you think they have square in the cross hairs?

I agree with you on having another model as that is what they have been doing for years. One version of a car for the US and one version for across the pond. GM has made some really dumb moves in the past and I have my fingers crossed that they learned from those mistakes and will not make the same ones in the future, but who knows.

A few things to consider however, GM no longer has the cash flow or development funding they once had and as a result will need to streamline the production process. This is where it makes sense to try and develop a single version of the C7 that covers all the bases they are after.

What I think will happen is there will be engine choices available as I stated in my earlier post. This will help maintain the appeal here if a buyer wants the big liter V8. I think they will have the 5.5 direct injection V8 and I also think they will have a small high revving turbo charged engine. Everyone is stuck on the 10K rpm thing, but what the article said was "could be as high as" it didn't say thats what it was going to be. GM may even offer some different transmission choices than are currently available. I think if GM follows a process similar to this, they could pull this off and to your point maintain the primary market for the Corvette while providing a product with choices that will appeal to the Global market......

ghost.223

You guys wanting a high rpm small engine just make me wonder. Why do you even want a Vette? Just go get one of these great foreign cars you talk about. These companies have been building them for a long time so they know what they are doing. If you want a Porshe or ferarri or a race car then get one.

In 20 years we will all be driving 10 second electric cars anyway

30YR W8T

You may be spot on with this...

Racer X

Originally you $5-6 per litre. That's like $19-23 a gallon, a far cry from $9. The is a Corvette board, talking about the next generation Corvette. Why even talk about 3 and 4 cylinder cars, unless you were talking about competitors. Who cars abpout them on here. You talk as if the V-8 in the Corvette is the norm here, it is not. The Corvette is not marketed to the "norm". It is marketed to people who want a stylish car that is capable of good handling, 190mph, and fast acceleration to 60mph, or some combination of the above. It is not marketed to those that want 50mpg. The Corvette's competitors in Europe ar at a minimum a 6, and really a turbo 6. The rest are v-8, v10, V12 in at least the ones that match the performance.

So I know about the Lotus. I had an Elise. I am familiar with the turbo 4 Lotus Esprit. It was not a 190mph car in stock form, it was not 0-60 in less that 4.5 seconds in stock form. Try again. The Lotus Elise/Exige could make the 0-60 time with a 8000 rpm clutch drop.

No Clio is a sports car, nor is a Focus. And neither gets anywhere clost to 190mph. They are not compertitors to a Corvette. And not all countres in Europe tax based on displacement. In the UK it is based CO2 emissions on the new cars. And these taxes do not seem to be bothering Porsche or Ferrari, or Aston Martin, or Lamborghini or the Jag XK or any of the other comperitors of the Corvette.

I was around for all cars starting in the 60's The reason the V8s wereanemic in the 70's was due to pollution controls not mileage standards.

Racer X

Yeah and in 1970 I was promised we would be in flying cars by 2000. That one did not go so well.

Nitrous Oxide

One or two years ago I saw a video interview of the main engineer behind the engine. He explained how it was possible to compete with the european engines at a much lower cost. It sounded to me like he felt that the old technology had simply been pushed to its limits. To go beyond that, an entirely different architecture would be needed. Maybe it's just me misinterpreting him.

30YR W8T

So you are saying the Corvette motor only resides in the Corvette. Do you consider that the Camaro would be the norm here? Once again you miss the whole point of the conversation, This is not about 190 MPH, its about which direction the new engine for the Corvette is going to go. But a little more info for you on the 4 cylinders non sports cars. Who would have ever thought a Dodge Neon would top 220 MPH, remember its just a turbo charged 4 cylinder that was making about 800 HP. The capabilities are there, but I digress.

One more time, This whole conversation is about which direction the new engine in the upcoming C7 Corvette is going to go. No where in any of my post did I bring up this 190 mph thing you are stuck on, you did. I replied to your comment about the 4 cylinder cars in your opinion not being a sports car. Evidently the Focus R being in rally competition does not register as a sport to you for example. My Z06 is supposed to top out at 198 MPH, so what, not the topic of conversation here we are talking about the new car and engine.

Evidently you missed the time when gas went over $2.00 per Gallon in the late 70's and emissions were not the sole reason the V8's were changed to anemic cast iron bricks, fuel efficiency was. Do you remember the V6 in the full size Pontiac Parisian, Buick's, full size Chevy's, etc. do you remember the 260 V8 that was in the Cutlass, I guess those engines were just put in those cars for emissions also. We will see smaller displacement more advanced engines and you can take that to the bank.

Racer X

GM is the leading import car in China. GM produces cars in Europe and Australia. Ford is global as well. Have you been asleep? GM has direction injection engines in several models in the USA. You appear one of those people that confuses complexity with advanced technology.

The reason GM will go with a a smaller 5.5 liter direct injection V8 is because that is all they need to meet their horsepower requirements. They will be able to move up in displacement to get more HP as they need it to sell more cars.

I know why they have had trouble over the years. They let non-car guys and accountants make too many car decisions. They have done a poor job of marketing the advanced nature of their engineering versus the europeans using that complex technology from the 1920's.