Mr. Jones

I would like to see some new items for the corvette. I also would like a little of the old corvette.
example new technology in the powertrain and some old ideas like high RPM engines. Remember the 302 and the 327 screamers.
well today we can have torque power and mileage if its packages right.

Help GM make the right decisions.
Ok I am ready flame suit on

I want 5+ liter, 460+HP dual overhead cams, VVT, 7500RPM, direct injection, forged internals.
coil over shock setup, upgraded interior, upgraded electronics, 6 speed auto paddle shifter,
3300lbs max., good brakes, good trans programing in sport mod, intuitive downshifting
This can be the base car. $50,000

Z06 offer a HP version 6.2L dual overhead cams, VVT, 7500RPM, direct injection, forged internals 535+HP
tweaked suspen. brake upgrade, interior upgrade, optional upgraded electronics, good trans programing in sport mod, intuitive downshifting 3200lbs max. $65,000

ZR1
5+ liter derived from the 6.2L,(de-stroked), max. brake, suspension, supercharged 640+HP
8000rpm, 3200lbs max, interior upgrade options
6 speed manual with paddle shift and auto mod.
$105,000

yea I know title spelling

rjwz28

Ridiculous. You speak of fuel efficiency then mention cars that weigh no less than the current models but have thirstier engines (heavier, more complex, higher-rpm and therefore less torquey powerbands). Why not add direct injection and VVT to the already powerful and efficient engine platform already proven in the current generation of engines? Not to mention that your list is insanely expensive (mostly due to engineering so many changes) yet you expect the prices to remain the same or lower than they already are. Pushrod V8s are shorter and lighter up top than dohc engines, therefore making them easier to package with a low hoodline for aerodynamics and keeping the weight low for a more advantageous center of gravity. There is nothing wrong with the pushrod design.

jackhall99

Idiotic dream list.

Do you have any concept at all of manufacturing, business and engineering? Can you spell Ferrari at $250K+ and returns 10 MPG town, 18 highway?

Jinx

I want a new mistress with dual sculpted gams, DD top, $7500/mo job, perfect complexion, healthy internals, uplifted posterior, uplifting intellect, 140lbs max, cute face, good competitive nature in sport mode, and low-guilt women's intuition.

While we're dreaming.

Kingsize

That is you DREAM monthly income?

Jinx

No, that's my dream mistress' monthly income. Did you think I wanted to sport a nice rack too?

uxojerry

Go look at a new Ford 5L Coyote motor. It takes up as much space as a big block. Im willing to be GM has a good handle on the next pushrod motor. Using the 3.6 DI motor for comparison, a 5.5L could easily be 450hp or so. Im willing to bet that the C7 Z06/ZR1 will keep the current motors for at least a few more years.

Make the C7 smaller, lighter, more powerful, with better materials.

Mr. Jones

I think some of you have been lead by the nose to long.
Lets hope GM has learned to engineer cars not spend it money on advertising and sell cars that are good enough, oops.

Example a $40,000 car 5.0L, 444hp, 6 speed, fuel economy, DOHC
VVT yes the Mustang.
So if Chev. can't do better for ten grand more we end up with
a pretty but slow dog 1976-78 all over again (sorry if a I hurt anyones feelings).
Look at what has already been accomplished by other manufacturers.
The vette is falling behind fast.
2000 Honda S2000 a eleven year old car. 2.0L, 240HP, 8900RPM, (no turbo or sup.) 6 speed that shifts with two fingers, coil over. Convert that to 5 or 6 liter and tell me what kind of numbers you get.

Come on gentlemen dream a little, lets let engineering do there job and let the marketing people take a back set.

Yes I do know something about engineering, manuf, and a little hard work. lets think 1984 not the weak years.
I did not buy a vette for a image boost I bought it to drive it.
I will just mod/rebuild my car as needed if they don't make the next move to todays high end standards.

BobRBob

I'm with Mr Jones.
I can't understand why asking for things that are standard fare with the competition makes you an idiot with many people on this forum.

If GM doesn't get with the program on some of these things the Corvette will be history.

That said, I fully support Jinx's wish list.

rjwz28

You talk of power per liter like it is all that matters; that's what the ricers say when arguing with the muscle car crowd. How about comparisons that make sense; power to weight or physical size of the engine or performance per dollar? The LS platform in the Corvette is far from behind on any of those fronts. Why do you guys insist that the Corvette become such a bandwagon car? If you want a 5.0dohc-powered performance car, buy the Boss and be happy. If you want this magical 120-horse per liter number to brag about, buy a used S2000 (has to be an early one though because Honda increased the displacement without increasing the power level to improve street manners; Hmmm more displacement equals better manners, huh?). If you don't like the manner in which GM produces their horsepower, buy somebody else's performance car. It really is that simple. But don't seriously act like it is GM failing to deliver a competent engine; it is only you failing to recognize the benefits of the design and noticing only that it isn't the built exactly the same as the current crop of multicam engines.

BobRBob

Buy something else? Well, that's exactly what a lot of people are doing - buying something else. The market has pretty well decided what it wants in a performance engine and, IMO, GM is hurting the survival chances of the Corvette by continuing to ignore the reality. As for the technical merits of the LS engines, I think you over-state them but that isn't really the point. It is that fewer and fewer people want one and that isn't going to change by telling them they don't understand.

Mr. Jones

I did list weight limits. Weight is equal to free power. Look at some of the pigs out there. The challenger 4000+lbs
I did list displacement size and HP expectations my sizes were equal or smaller than present production).
GM used to add displacement to compensate for engineering-their cheap easy fix. Some of us want more.
I don't think I have failed at seeing the benefits of the LS1. I drive a modded LS1 right now. I spent time doing some research and put together a nice street car (500hp, 470tq and a 7000rpm red line, 29mpg highway with 3.90 gears, 6 speed).
If I wanted a Mustang I would buy one. Lets ask for more from the vette so I don't have to.
A 5+ liter with VVT and direct injection will give the performance I am asking for. The VVT with this cubic inch will also deliver torque at lower RPM's. This is not magic or a outerlimits request. Its call progression.
I'm no 20 year old snot nose kid.
I have had my share of cars, I have build enough engines to know what could be.
The C5 was a great leap, I don't plan to sell it even if I buy a C7.
The C6 was progression, the C7 must be more than that.

mtnman

rhcpfreak7

Also we need to keep in mind, the reason cars are affordable these days is because they are meant to be a starting point. Ricers have their rice-rockets because they sell cheap, then they add the parts over time. Ferraris and Lambos are fully loaded because they cost $300k+. You cant expect to pay $50k and have GM do all the performance work for you, and for that matter, why would you want them to. History has shown us that the less the manufacturer meddles, the happier its customers are.

I know we all wish that a year or more's salary should buy us a supercar, but we all know those days are gone. In the meantime, we need to appreciate the performance the corvette exudes where it stands now and look forward to the perfection of the model over years through small tweaks and upgrades.

Besides, if you want a supercar for an affordable price, go finance yourself a 2012 Nissan GT-R. You gotta admit it takes some pure intellect and genius to turn a tuner into Godzilla. Corvette will never be GTR tho, and theres nothing wrong with that.

dboz

I still think an optional smaller V8 with forced induction is the answer. Or possibly a twin turbo V6 setup. It makes mods easy. That is what younger buyers are after. A car that can be tweaked for big gains with some know how and few funds.

Godzilla gets and exhaust and a tune and gains 100hp for about $1-2000 bucks.

A high revving smaller low compression engine with a turbo would be a HUGE step up for GM. Look at what they did with the 2.0 turbo in the COBALT SS. Now imagine that on a Corvette scale (6 or 8 cylinder). Stupid power, while appealing to more buyers.

Die hard push rod large displacement V8 engines are truly dinosaurs. Even the M3 is downsizing displacement for boost. It just makes sense.

If MITSU can put an awesome paddle shift transmission in the EVO X MR for under $40k, with a 2.0 turbo motor, aluminum fenders, hood and roof, light weight windshield glass, forged aluminum suspension, active yaw control rear differential and AWD with Recaro seats, NAV and a Rockford Fosgate stereo, why the hell can't Corvette at least get a high tech transmission and forced induction engine at a similar price point?

Surely they can get an engine with forced induction to hit somewhere in the same price point, no? Maybe America can't build a car like that.

Am I an idiot? Maybe? You all will let me know I am certain of that.

tweeter81

Um...people are buying other cars because of two HUGE reasons, neither of which have anything to do with the mighty LS motors:

1) The C6 body style has been on the market since freaking MY2005, people are just simply sick of seeing a million of the same Vettes for the last 7 freaking years...sheesh! This is so obvious to me that it hurts, but everybody is trying to blame low sales of recent Vettes on the cars themselves, not the case at all.

2) Their has been a little phenomenon called the "Global Economic Downturn" for the last 3 years. When people are up-side down in their mortgage and have lost their jobs, GUESS WHAT, they ain't buying weekend fun sports cars that they don't need.

rjwz28

And some people just won't buy an American car, period. We can thank the 80s and 90s Big Three for that.

rhcpfreak7

I agree that FI might be a good path for GM, especially after the success of the ZR1.

That being said, and I know I say it on here too much, I will never agree with a V6 engine in a Corvette. They can boost and blow all they want, but it has to be a V8. There is too much heritage in these car's bloodline to change the one thing that has made the car what it is, for 47 years and counting.

Who cares about the younger demographic anyway? I keep hearing that used in discussions, how young are we talking? I am 21 and have a C6, but its high mileage, got a great deal on it, im military, and its the oldest C6 available. The buyers around my age that can afford the C7 should def be able to pay to upgrade it, so why make the Corvette a car FOR them. GM cant hope to hold a reputation if theyre on their hands and knees for the consumer. Do you think Amedeo Felisa or Stephan Winkelmann give a d^&* what younger crowds want? Heck, they dont even care what their current CUSTOMERS want. They simply make a car they feel they have perfected, put it out there, and whoever has the means and desire to buy, will do just that.

I have more, but no time to express. lol.

ANYONE ELSE HAVE THEIR $0.02?

BobRBob

There aren't millions of them. Only around 100,000 have been sold since inception and they are not that common. As for blaming poor sales on the car itself, what else is there to blame poor sales of a car on?

Of course, the economy has hurt everyone but Corvette sales are suffering more than most.

Maybe the best approach on the engine issue is to keep the old engine alongside a new model sporting a new engine. That would satisfy the old guard at the same time as bringing in new customers. Very expensive approach but it is a possibility.

Jinx

Nobody expects Porsche to ditch their flat six. It's their signature. Porsche will continue to praise its inherent advantages and mitigate its weaknesses and refine it until it's so far behind that the brand must reinvent itself.

There's talk that BMW will embrace a V6 in place of their signature inline six, and that has a lot of folks up in arms, rightfully so.

Harley-Davidson has its potato-potato V-twin. Ducati its 90-degree twin.

Ferraris have high-revving naturally-aspirated small V8s and raucous V12s. Should they abandon these for lower-revving high-pressure turbo V6s because they're more efficient?

Mustang could have an Ecoboost V6 by now. It could be argued that there's no technical need for the Coyote to exist -- refine that V6 technology with big boost right on up to 450hp and beyond. But it's telling that they don't. It's telling that Ford built a Coyote V8 with a five point oh litre displacement.


Corvette uses a pushrod V8. It is the brand's signature. GM will continue to improve on it as long as they can make a business case for it -- and people will continue to buy them. Corvette is not dead nor dying; let not the absurd amount of time spent arguing over the reason for low sales or the meaning of an offhand comment about pursuing younger buyers distract you from the fact that Corvette is a powerful brand with a strong legacy that, despite flaws and tarnish, commands respect across generations. The pushrod V8 isn't just a good idea that's far from the limits of its development, it's a performance icon.

DOHC? Don't need it. Higher RPM? Enemy of efficiency. Supercharger? Don't need it until you want to chase 600hp. Buyers who let the price of aftermarket horsepower dictate what cars they buy? An infinitesimal minority above $50K, and not just irrelevent but actually detrimental to Corvette's future.

Let the powertrain engineers say when an engine architecture is at the end of its development rope, and let the market say when it's no longer economically viable, and recognize that everyone else trying to call in the pushrod V8's marker is just wishing.

GM will continue to refine Corvette's pushrod V8, and every car fanatic on the planet, no matter their particular brand affinity, should be happy that they do so. Competition and variety are good; they make life interesting and lead to better things, even when we think we're all so smart and we've figured out the final best answer already.

Heritage matters. And not just to old people.

.Jinx