dfarese

A while back I read that GM has invested a lot of money into Teijin Ltd. that found a way of producing carbon fiber faster and for a cheaper rate. Does anyone think this might be implemented into the C7? Hope so

Here is a link here:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...996527306.html

dfarese

keep in mind that they say might start using the components in its vehicles by 2015, so could be Z06 or Zr1, but maybe they would produce some parts earlier.....wishful thinking.

by the way when I attach the link it doesn't show the whole story so here is the full article link for copy and paste.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...996527306.html

Hmm, don't know why it's not showing the full Article, but click it highlight and search the topic name and click the link in Google and it will show you the full article.

Guibo

Still couldn't access that page without subscribing. Here's the press release:

"2011-12-08
DETROIT – General Motors and Teijin Limited., a leader in the carbon fiber and composites industry, will co-develop advanced carbon fiber composite technologies for potential high-volume use globally in GM cars, trucks and crossovers.
The co-development pact signed today involves use of Teijin’s innovative carbon fiber reinforced thermoplastic (CFRTP) technology, a faster and more efficient way to produce carbon fiber composites that potentially could be introduced on mainstream vehicles. For Teijin, the arrangement could lead to widening its portfolio beyond specialty and high-end automotive carbon fiber applications.
'Our relationship with Teijin provides the opportunity to revolutionize the way carbon fiber is used in the automotive industry,' said GM Vice Chairman Steve Girsky. 'This technology holds the potential to be an industry game changer and demonstrates GM’s long-standing commitment to innovation.'
To support the relationship, Teijin will establish the Teijin Composites Application Center, a technical center in the northern part of the United States early next year.
As carbon fiber is 10 times stronger than regular-grade steel yet only one-quarter of the weight, carbon fiber composites used as automobile components are expected to dramatically reduce vehicle weight. Consumers benefit from lighter weight vehicles with better fuel economy and all the safety benefits that come with vehicles of greater mass.
Teijin's proprietary breakthrough is its ability to mass-produce carbon fiber-reinforced thermoplastic components with cycle times of under a minute. Conventional carbon fiber-reinforced composites use thermosetting resins and require a much longer timeframe for molding. This time factor has limited the use of carbon fiber in high-volume vehicles.
Teijin recently received a 2011 Global Automotive Carbon Composites Technology Innovation Award by Frost & Sullivan. The technology also was selected by ICIS Innovation Awards 2011 as the overall winner and the recipient of the Best Product Innovation award.
Increasingly, strict global environmental standards and fuel economy regulations have intensified the need to reduce vehicle mass by using lightweight materials in place of high-tension steel or aluminum.
The Teijin Group, which has identified automobiles as a key growth market, accelerated the new technology development through collaboration by the Teijin Composites Innovation Center and Toho Tenax Co. Ltd., where the mass-production technology for carbon fiber reinforced plastic components using thermoplastic resin was successfully developed.
'Teijin’s innovative CFRTP technology, which promises to realize revolutionarily lighter automotive body structures, will play an important role in GM’s initiative to bring carbon fiber components into mainstream vehicles,' said Norio Kamei, senior managing director of Teijin. 'We believe our visionary relationship with GM will lead the way in increased usage of green composites in the automotive industry.'
The launch of any carbon fiber-intensive vehicle applications resulting from the relationship would be announced closer to market readiness. The agreement does not involve an exchange of equity between the companies."
http://media.gm.com/content/media/us...08_teijin.html

Sounds like it's too late for the C7 outside of minor components later in its life. Maybe a special tub for the ZR1 like the MP4-12C's? This has huge potential for GM's entire lineup, and can help address specific concerns about fuel economy for V8 Vettes (and AWD too).

Jinx

Seems too late for the base C7 in 2014, but I bet the first application is more Corvette body panels. Fenders, hood, roof, doors, hatch.

69L79

Interesting info.

DREAMERAK

OK, so GM would never lie or misdirect to keep future plans secret?

Guibo

Could also be used on items that don't require a high level of surface smoothness or finish. This is partly how McLaren have slashed the cost of the MP4-12C's tub (only 1/4 of what the SLR used to cost). There are already aftermarket CF drive shafts for the Corvette; perhaps the torque tube could be made lighter or more compact, thus freeing up some interior space. Half-shafts might be done in CF. Valve and front engine covers, sumps, dry sump catch cans, intake plenums, plus supercharger housings, which could be used across brands and models.
FWIW, this was posted by edmunds last week on BMW's i3:
"The manufacturing time required to make an i3 is now less than it is for an equivalent conventional car. BMW began molding pre-production carbon-fiber panels in February at its Leipzig plant, using fibers sourced from the U.S. and its joint venture with SGL. It has now got the process to the point where a carbon-fiber sub-assembly is the same price as the equivalent piece in aluminum."

With the yen rising steadily over the past 4 years after remaining largely flat for the preceding 6 years, it will be interesting to see if GM should have gone with a US carbon firm instead. Many of the Japanese car companies are trying to ramp up production in their US factories, as importing from Japan is becoming increasingly less profitable.

jb_va2001

Expect different Corvette models in 2015-16-17. GS? Z06? ZR1? All the C7 variants won't be here in year one.

tuxnharley

How does CF react to exposure to oil, grease, ATF, etc.? I thought I had read that it can cause deterioration and delamination over time. Maybe not important for race cars with short life cycles, but how durable is it in street cars with that type of exposure over a 10 or 15 year life? Or is there some miracle coating like the $1000s/gal UV protectant?

Guibo

I'm sure there are any number of modern polymers that are resistant to those chemicals. $1000/gal? Did it drop from the $60k/gal I've read elsewhere? $1000/gal is pretty hard to swallow knowing that there are UV-protected carbon resins available for only $39-70/gal. If GM has only 1000 cars per year with carbon parts, then their purchasing power in volume is greatly reduced compared to if they have 30,000.

Jinx

How 'bout just paint? The hyper-expensive carbon-fiber coating for ZR1 was chosen because it's clear, i.e. you can see the carbon fiber. If you're not trying to display the carbon fiber, you can protect it more cheaply.

OnPoint

Manufacturing is about to undergo a revolution. The advancements in carbon fiber are already leapfrogging.

And when 3D printing takes off - - and it will - - the world of manufacturing (including, indeed perhaps especially, in the U.S.) will make a huge leap.

vant

tuxnharley

Ah, yes, thanks for remembering that it was the clear coating that was hyper expensive! Not sure what you have in mind by "paint"? Doesn't regular paint(s) deteriorate from those same greases/oils? Maybe use an epoxy based coating?