Talked to someone from GM...
06-22-2012, 04:31 PM
#21
Melting Slicks
06-22-2012, 04:34 PM
#22
Team Owner
The odds of massive weight loss to make up the power difference are low.
Base C6 Curb Weight: 3200lb
Base C6 HP: 430
Weight vs HP 100lbs = 10hp
If people want the feel of 500hp, which I know I do, here are the numbers. Starting with a base C6 weight you will need 70hp more, or a reduction of 700lbs or a combination of the two. At 450hp, you need to shed 500lbs which isn't going to happen. At 475hp, you need to shed 250lbs which may be possible.
I won't go into the perils of power to weight. Power to weight is meaningful if the power is in a usable range which can be a problem with many engines. There isn't enough oomph off the line.
Base C6 Curb Weight: 3200lb
Base C6 HP: 430
Weight vs HP 100lbs = 10hp
If people want the feel of 500hp, which I know I do, here are the numbers. Starting with a base C6 weight you will need 70hp more, or a reduction of 700lbs or a combination of the two. At 450hp, you need to shed 500lbs which isn't going to happen. At 475hp, you need to shed 250lbs which may be possible.
I won't go into the perils of power to weight. Power to weight is meaningful if the power is in a usable range which can be a problem with many engines. There isn't enough oomph off the line.
And at this point, I would even be very happy with a 475hp rating and only a 100 pound reduction in weight.But I'm growing less and less hopeful that it will be any more than a 450hp rating and less than even a 50 pound weight reduction.
06-22-2012, 05:44 PM
#23
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '09
Sounds like a sweet motor--more hp from less displacement. Could be lighter too, less front weight, better balance front to rear.
Coincidentally, the C6.R is 5.5L, 491hp, 485lb-ft, so this C7 engine could be based on that. I'd be thrilled to have one.
Coincidentally, the C6.R is 5.5L, 491hp, 485lb-ft, so this C7 engine could be based on that. I'd be thrilled to have one.
06-22-2012, 05:52 PM
#24
Burning Brakes
C5 had only 20 more HP (if that) than LT4 which it replaced but was a much better car and sold well.
Let's look at the total package before being disappointed. The Z is really a no-compromises hard-edged car. It is not for everybody.
If the C7 comes in at 450HP and 3100 lbs, with great looks, excellent fuel efficiency, top-drawer interior and improved targa function, it will meet most Vette buyers' needs very well.
Let's look at the total package before being disappointed. The Z is really a no-compromises hard-edged car. It is not for everybody.
If the C7 comes in at 450HP and 3100 lbs, with great looks, excellent fuel efficiency, top-drawer interior and improved targa function, it will meet most Vette buyers' needs very well.
Not to mention the first year base model is not going to have more H.P. than the current Z06 or be faster. That will most likly come a year or 2 later. Thatys how its always been. And I will not be trading in my 09 Z06 unless the car just blows me away, even then I may wait untill the following year when they have worked out all the bugs
06-22-2012, 06:31 PM
#25
Instructor
There is just one thing I have to say about this thread...
"LOOK AROUND PEOPLE"
Did you see Ford reduce the size of the mustang motor and marginalize the hp output? NO (the GT went from a 4.6 to 5.0 motor adding nearly 100 hp and the cobra went from 5.4 to 5.8 adding 112 hp!!)
Did you see Dodge reduce the size of the motor in the Viper and marginalize the HP? NO (they kept the GIGANTIC 8.4 and added 40 more hp to an already 600!)
So based on the above do you think GM's response to all of this is going to be shrink the motor and raise the hp by 14??? Not going to happen.
I'm not calling any of the people that have heard from their GM sources liars but consider this: Do you think what they gave you was an accurate fact about the HP ratings of the new cars or do you think it's more logical that what they gave you was what they WANTED you to think was the actual HP rating?
I will make this guarantee to you all and I'm not an insider nor do I work for GM...but I PROMISE all of you the C7 base will have over 500 hp and the Z will have over 600. FACT
"LOOK AROUND PEOPLE"
Did you see Ford reduce the size of the mustang motor and marginalize the hp output? NO (the GT went from a 4.6 to 5.0 motor adding nearly 100 hp and the cobra went from 5.4 to 5.8 adding 112 hp!!)
Did you see Dodge reduce the size of the motor in the Viper and marginalize the HP? NO (they kept the GIGANTIC 8.4 and added 40 more hp to an already 600!)
So based on the above do you think GM's response to all of this is going to be shrink the motor and raise the hp by 14??? Not going to happen.
I'm not calling any of the people that have heard from their GM sources liars but consider this: Do you think what they gave you was an accurate fact about the HP ratings of the new cars or do you think it's more logical that what they gave you was what they WANTED you to think was the actual HP rating?
I will make this guarantee to you all and I'm not an insider nor do I work for GM...but I PROMISE all of you the C7 base will have over 500 hp and the Z will have over 600. FACT
06-22-2012, 06:35 PM
#26
Melting Slicks
There is just one thing I have to say about this thread...
"LOOK AROUND PEOPLE"
Did you see Ford reduce the size of the mustang motor and marginalize the hp output? NO (the GT went from a 4.6 to 5.0 motor adding nearly 100 hp and the cobra went from 5.4 to 5.8 adding 112 hp!!)
Did you see Dodge reduce the size of the motor in the Viper and marginalize the HP? NO (they kept the GIGANTIC 8.4 and added 40 more hp to an already 600!)
So based on the above do you think GM's response to all of this is going to be shrink the motor and raise the hp by 14??? Not going to happen.
I'm not calling any of the people that have heard from their GM sources liars but consider this: Do you think what they gave you was an accurate fact about the HP ratings of the new cars or do you think it's more logical that what they gave you was what they WANTED you to think was the actual HP rating?
I will make this guarantee to you all and I'm not an insider nor do I work for GM...but I PROMISE all of you the C7 base will have over 500 hp and the Z will have over 600. FACT
"LOOK AROUND PEOPLE"
Did you see Ford reduce the size of the mustang motor and marginalize the hp output? NO (the GT went from a 4.6 to 5.0 motor adding nearly 100 hp and the cobra went from 5.4 to 5.8 adding 112 hp!!)
Did you see Dodge reduce the size of the motor in the Viper and marginalize the HP? NO (they kept the GIGANTIC 8.4 and added 40 more hp to an already 600!)
So based on the above do you think GM's response to all of this is going to be shrink the motor and raise the hp by 14??? Not going to happen.
I'm not calling any of the people that have heard from their GM sources liars but consider this: Do you think what they gave you was an accurate fact about the HP ratings of the new cars or do you think it's more logical that what they gave you was what they WANTED you to think was the actual HP rating?
I will make this guarantee to you all and I'm not an insider nor do I work for GM...but I PROMISE all of you the C7 base will have over 500 hp and the Z will have over 600. FACT
06-22-2012, 06:59 PM
#27
Successful Plumber
Member Since: Feb 2001
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St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10
NCM Member '09
People who want a 500hp base car and think they can get it for $50K might as well ask for the hyperdrive, antigravity boots and zero-calorie wedding cake.
06-22-2012, 07:18 PM
#28
Drifting
There is just one thing I have to say about this thread...
"LOOK AROUND PEOPLE"
Did you see Ford reduce the size of the mustang motor and marginalize the hp output? NO (the GT went from a 4.6 to 5.0 motor adding nearly 100 hp and the cobra went from 5.4 to 5.8 adding 112 hp!!)
Did you see Dodge reduce the size of the motor in the Viper and marginalize the HP? NO (they kept the GIGANTIC 8.4 and added 40 more hp to an already 600!)
So based on the above do you think GM's response to all of this is going to be shrink the motor and raise the hp by 14??? Not going to happen.
I'm not calling any of the people that have heard from their GM sources liars but consider this: Do you think what they gave you was an accurate fact about the HP ratings of the new cars or do you think it's more logical that what they gave you was what they WANTED you to think was the actual HP rating?
I will make this guarantee to you all and I'm not an insider nor do I work for GM...but I PROMISE all of you the C7 base will have over 500 hp and the Z will have over 600. FACT
"LOOK AROUND PEOPLE"
Did you see Ford reduce the size of the mustang motor and marginalize the hp output? NO (the GT went from a 4.6 to 5.0 motor adding nearly 100 hp and the cobra went from 5.4 to 5.8 adding 112 hp!!)
Did you see Dodge reduce the size of the motor in the Viper and marginalize the HP? NO (they kept the GIGANTIC 8.4 and added 40 more hp to an already 600!)
So based on the above do you think GM's response to all of this is going to be shrink the motor and raise the hp by 14??? Not going to happen.
I'm not calling any of the people that have heard from their GM sources liars but consider this: Do you think what they gave you was an accurate fact about the HP ratings of the new cars or do you think it's more logical that what they gave you was what they WANTED you to think was the actual HP rating?
I will make this guarantee to you all and I'm not an insider nor do I work for GM...but I PROMISE all of you the C7 base will have over 500 hp and the Z will have over 600. FACT
06-22-2012, 07:25 PM
#29
Drifting
They could save some weight with the aluminum frame that seems to be coming, and a smaller engine would save some weight, but what else is there? The loss of the large rear window that the C6 has? That would save a few pounds I would imagine.
06-22-2012, 07:31 PM
#30
Le Mans Master
500 doesn't sound too outlandish. I was always impressed with the 300 hp GM cranked out of the V6 for the Camaro. Given direct injection is becoming the new norm and ever increasing design tweaks, 500 hp out of a high reving 5.5 sized motor doesn't sound too far fetched. Even with less hp and the right overall package, the car will still be amazing.
My big hang up with everyone complaining about "stepping up in hp against competitors": One is a NA V10 producing 640 hp.... the other is a motor closer in size some predict for the C7 that uses forced induction to crank out 650hp+. What are some people expecting out of a 5.5 sized motor that will presumably be NA and still need to avoid the gas guzzler taxing? Rome was not built in a day and the C7 ain't going to be a top contender day 1.
Sadly....I'm surprised some people are still worried about the Corvette going V6. Really guys? Holy hell. Hope you guys are pot stirring on the other forums just to be fair.
My big hang up with everyone complaining about "stepping up in hp against competitors": One is a NA V10 producing 640 hp.... the other is a motor closer in size some predict for the C7 that uses forced induction to crank out 650hp+. What are some people expecting out of a 5.5 sized motor that will presumably be NA and still need to avoid the gas guzzler taxing? Rome was not built in a day and the C7 ain't going to be a top contender day 1.
Sadly....I'm surprised some people are still worried about the Corvette going V6. Really guys? Holy hell. Hope you guys are pot stirring on the other forums just to be fair.
06-22-2012, 07:34 PM
#31
Le Mans Master
Cant wait till Jan 2014, im praying for a great looking C7 with a big *** that runs 11.6 - 11.9 in the 1/4 and has a nice auto be it DCT (doubt this) or a solid slush box trans.
If not, I will be jumping on a 2013 427 or Z06 or Callaway GS!
If not, I will be jumping on a 2013 427 or Z06 or Callaway GS!
06-22-2012, 07:42 PM
#32
Safety Car
pounds weight reduction on the 2014 base car. When the ZR1 appears later there won't be as much weight loss from the C6 ZR1
because that car already had an aluminum frame.
06-22-2012, 08:56 PM
#34
Melting Slicks
This has been the rumored engine for quite some time.
Already confirmed.
These features have already been seen in the spy videos.
This has been a rumor for quite some time.
This has been a rumor for quite some time.
Don't take my post as a shot at you, because that is definitely not the case. My point is that it wasn't really anything new. I wish GM reps would simply say, "We can't say anything" instead of wasting everyone's time recycling rumors that everyone has already heard.
Already confirmed.
These features have already been seen in the spy videos.
This has been a rumor for quite some time.
This has been a rumor for quite some time.
Don't take my post as a shot at you, because that is definitely not the case. My point is that it wasn't really anything new. I wish GM reps would simply say, "We can't say anything" instead of wasting everyone's time recycling rumors that everyone has already heard.
06-22-2012, 09:31 PM
#35
One of the things I find funny is there was talk about making the car smaller, less weight blah, blah blah. Then the winter testing photos come out, and that car looks as big, if not a little bigger, than the C6. Oh wait I am forgetting, that's all padding
They could save some weight with the aluminum frame that seems to be coming, and a smaller engine would save some weight, but what else is there? The loss of the large rear window that the C6 has? That would save a few pounds I would imagine.
They could save some weight with the aluminum frame that seems to be coming, and a smaller engine would save some weight, but what else is there? The loss of the large rear window that the C6 has? That would save a few pounds I would imagine.
06-22-2012, 09:47 PM
#36
Former Vendor
Here is my opinion. Take it for what it is worth.
The only ones who know the truth about the C7 are on a need to know basis. No one else at GM knows any more than we do. Anyone who knows the truth is not talking.
I believe this to be information leaked by someone who wants to feel important when the truth is they know what we know, which is very little.
The only ones who know the truth about the C7 are on a need to know basis. No one else at GM knows any more than we do. Anyone who knows the truth is not talking.
I believe this to be information leaked by someone who wants to feel important when the truth is they know what we know, which is very little.
Last edited by WildVettes; 06-22-2012 at 09:50 PM.
Hear the echos? Lots of recycled rumors being repeated on the internet forums.
06-22-2012, 10:04 PM
#38
Team Owner
Here is my opinion. Take it for what it is worth.
The only ones who know the truth about the C7 are on a need to know basis. No one else at GM knows any more than we do. Anyone who knows the truth is not talking.
I believe this to be information leaked by someone who wants to feel important when the truth is they know what we know, which is very little.
The only ones who know the truth about the C7 are on a need to know basis. No one else at GM knows any more than we do. Anyone who knows the truth is not talking.
I believe this to be information leaked by someone who wants to feel important when the truth is they know what we know, which is very little.
06-22-2012, 11:43 PM
#40
Race Director
OK, OK, jeez....
The C7 is going to be powered by a 4 rotor Wankel. Take that to the BANK. I wrote it, I read it, and I believe EVERYTHING I read on the internet, even when I made it up and then wrote it.
Jimmy
PS. Curb weight of the C7 is 2,578 pounds. Yep, made that up too.
The C7 is going to be powered by a 4 rotor Wankel. Take that to the BANK. I wrote it, I read it, and I believe EVERYTHING I read on the internet, even when I made it up and then wrote it.
Jimmy
PS. Curb weight of the C7 is 2,578 pounds. Yep, made that up too.