Another clue to lighter C7 materials
08-09-2012, 01:09 AM
#21
Le Mans Master
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The time is now for GM and Corvette to lighten up without huge cost increases. NanoSteel (as a company) has been around since 2002 and boast in this video that they are going to be ahead of 'new' steel estimated release dates (2017-2025) by three to five years earlier than that. This tells me they will be ready for C7 in 2014 or soon thereafter into that generation. Note the chart dates and statements at about :50 sec.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r24dL...yer_embedded#!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r24dL...yer_embedded#!
.......
Now let's look at the other end of the range of possibility 2025 minus 10-3 years. So 2015-2022. With a total range of 2007-2022. I think if they are lucky they could make into a 2016 model year car or truck.
I think the Corvette is more likely to use the aluminum frame because it is already engineered, and physically crash tested. I think it is more likely to come into a more price/cost sensitive vehicle, like say a Sonic or Cruze. Or maybe a truck bed. Since they talked of the thinnner gauge steel, I think it is intended for sheetmetal panels or as someone suggested unibodies.
08-09-2012, 01:14 AM
#22
Le Mans Master
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You honestly believe they haven't taken a material that can be substituted for steel and aluminum into account? You honestly think GM makes a $100 million investment these days to wait 8 years for it to be used?
BTW, why the fixation with C8? You appear to be using it to beat on the C7 consistently.
BTW, why the fixation with C8? You appear to be using it to beat on the C7 consistently.
08-09-2012, 02:05 AM
#23
Le Mans Master
I post based on what I read and see. You post based on what you wish for.
You pick out just enough to sustain your dream, but not enough to recognize the more reasonable explanation.
Date of 2017-2025 on the graphic, and they said "and we're giving it to them at a time that is probably three to five to ten years ahead of what they thought was available." That's marvelous marketing speak that doesn't actually nail it down but lets you dream about its availability. And yet the press release announcing GM's investment says it's in development, not available.
Oh, I see. Your first post, in its entirety, with the title: "Another clue to lighter C7 materials. Nano steel... <link>" But it's unreasonable to think that you meant the car's chassis. Obviously you meant all of the other stuff in the car. How could I have missed that?
But I shouldn't be surprised. This is just another example of you sprinting past the reasonable conclusion and planting your flag out in the fringe of the possible.
WRONG. Another BlueOx delusion.
You repeatedly avoid every question put to you about what is reasonable, practical, or probable in favor of spinning your wish-yarn faster. If you'd at least respond to questions instead of just pointing elsewhere, we might have a discussion. But you'll brook no critical thinking about your wishlist.
.Jinx
I show you a video they did with a date of 'new steel' in 2017 and NanoSteel says they will be 3-5 years ahead of that. Hmmm, sounds like they think it will be ready...I guess you know better.
Date of 2017-2025 on the graphic, and they said "and we're giving it to them at a time that is probably three to five to ten years ahead of what they thought was available." That's marvelous marketing speak that doesn't actually nail it down but lets you dream about its availability. And yet the press release announcing GM's investment says it's in development, not available.
You say chassis and then push that this is what I said or meant. 
But I shouldn't be surprised. This is just another example of you sprinting past the reasonable conclusion and planting your flag out in the fringe of the possible.
You got pissy because you want us to forget the C7 and live in C8 land.
You yammer on about the C8 and now want to talk C7 "mid-cycle" when I already mentioned it could be into the C7 generation "2014 or soon thereafter".
.Jinx
08-09-2012, 03:11 AM
#24
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Maybe a stupid remark, but since it is steel, it will rust, right?
Now the corvette body never rusts? If you have a Z car, and an alu body, I think you will never have rust issues. If the future corvette uses steel as body material, this will become an issue, not?
Or not important? Just a thought ...
Now the corvette body never rusts? If you have a Z car, and an alu body, I think you will never have rust issues. If the future corvette uses steel as body material, this will become an issue, not?
Or not important? Just a thought ...
08-09-2012, 07:40 AM
#25
Team Owner
I think you are being optimistic about what they are saying. As this is promotional video, I suspect that is what they want you to believe. They 3 to 5 to even 10 years earlier. So let's look at the potential range that represents. On the early side we take 2017 subtract 10-3 years. So available 2007-2014. So given that this was posted in June 2012 I am going to say before 2012 is out. But since they are getting funding for the final development phase, not even production phase, I would say 2013 is out. The C7 Corvette begins production in 2013, I believe it would not make production, if it would in anyway be involved in the crash structural integrity. Could it be introduced later perhaps.
Now let's look at the other end of the range of possibility 2025 minus 10-3 years. So 2015-2022. With a total range of 2007-2022. I think if they are lucky they could make into a 2016 model year car or truck.
I think the Corvette is more likely to use the aluminum frame because it is already engineered, and physically crash tested. I think it is more likely to come into a more price/cost sensitive vehicle, like say a Sonic or Cruze. Or maybe a truck bed. Since they talked of the thinner gauge steel, I think it is intended for sheetmetal panels or as someone suggested unibodies.
Now let's look at the other end of the range of possibility 2025 minus 10-3 years. So 2015-2022. With a total range of 2007-2022. I think if they are lucky they could make into a 2016 model year car or truck.
I think the Corvette is more likely to use the aluminum frame because it is already engineered, and physically crash tested. I think it is more likely to come into a more price/cost sensitive vehicle, like say a Sonic or Cruze. Or maybe a truck bed. Since they talked of the thinner gauge steel, I think it is intended for sheetmetal panels or as someone suggested unibodies.
As for the frame, I believe it is pretty much set in stone at this point that the C7 will have an aluminum frame. That was the main purpose of the frame being aluminum in the Z06/ZR1; to gain engineering experience in designing an aluminum frame, but more important, gain experience in manufacturing an aluminum frame. The aluminum frame was a 100% success as GM has had 7 years(going on 8 years) of total success with the aluminum frame for the Z06/ZR1.
Of course, as you point out, the time line is a factor.
08-09-2012, 08:06 AM
#26
Race Director
Thread Starter
I think you are being optimistic about what they are saying. As this is promotional video, I suspect that is what they want you to believe. They 3 to 5 to even 10 years earlier. So let's look at the potential range that represents. On the early side we take 2017 subtract 10-3 years. So available 2007-2014. So given that this was posted in June 2012 I am going to say before 2012 is out. But since they are getting funding for the final development phase, not even production phase, I would say 2013 is out. The C7 Corvette begins production in 2013, I belive it would not make production, if it would in anyway be involved inthe crash structural integrity. Could it be introduced later perhaps.
Now let's look at the other end of the range of possibility 2025 minus 10-3 years. So 2015-2022. With a total range of 2007-2022. I think if they are lucky they could make into a 2016 model year car or truck.
I think the Corvette is more likely to use the aluminum frame because it is already engineered, and physically crash tested. I think it is more likely to come into a more price/cost sensitive vehicle, like say a Sonic or Cruze. Or maybe a truck bed. Since they talked of the thinnner gauge steel, I think it is intended for sheetmetal panels or as someone suggested unibodies.
Now let's look at the other end of the range of possibility 2025 minus 10-3 years. So 2015-2022. With a total range of 2007-2022. I think if they are lucky they could make into a 2016 model year car or truck.
I think the Corvette is more likely to use the aluminum frame because it is already engineered, and physically crash tested. I think it is more likely to come into a more price/cost sensitive vehicle, like say a Sonic or Cruze. Or maybe a truck bed. Since they talked of the thinnner gauge steel, I think it is intended for sheetmetal panels or as someone suggested unibodies.
Yeah, it is more likely they will use the aluminum chassis. They've had good success with the aluminum frames.
08-09-2012, 08:40 AM
#27
Race Director
Thread Starter
The Solstice and the Sky had steel sheetmetal body panels that were hydroformed. Since the Solstice and the Sky were designed almost identical to the Corvette, exchanging the C7 composite body panels for steel or aluminum body panels is well within the realm of possibility. Since the body panels are either glued(the rocker panels, B pillar)) or bolted (fenders) to the chassis, even making a change mid run is possible(even though I doubt it would happen). As I posted in an earlier post, GM seriously considered making the C6 body panels from another material, but decided to stick with the composite material.
The NanoSteel will be used in the “body in white” (BIW) section, the steel of the car body that’s manufactured before other components – including doors and a hood – are added. That’s the space where integrity needs to be strongest rather than soft, like a crumple zone. The weight reduction, GM and NanoSteel say, is in the “hundreds” of pounds.
What sets NanoSteel’s sheet steel apart from other lightweight metals is ductility, or the material’s ability to be shaped into new forms without losing core strength. Carbon fiber (see: Lamborghini Sesto) has a fantastic strength-to-weight ratio, but unlike steel, it remains in the supercar realm because of the expense necessary to produce and repair. NanoSteel, on the other hand, can be produced and shaped using the same equipment used on regular steel. What’s more, NanoSteel is cold-formable, meaning the factories don’t need to use energy to heat, and then cut out shapes from the steel sheets – the material can be dealt with as it arrives. The same robots shaping a Chevy Volt’s exterior can handle NanoSteel without adjustment.
What sets NanoSteel’s sheet steel apart from other lightweight metals is ductility, or the material’s ability to be shaped into new forms without losing core strength. Carbon fiber (see: Lamborghini Sesto) has a fantastic strength-to-weight ratio, but unlike steel, it remains in the supercar realm because of the expense necessary to produce and repair. NanoSteel, on the other hand, can be produced and shaped using the same equipment used on regular steel. What’s more, NanoSteel is cold-formable, meaning the factories don’t need to use energy to heat, and then cut out shapes from the steel sheets – the material can be dealt with as it arrives. The same robots shaping a Chevy Volt’s exterior can handle NanoSteel without adjustment.
“GM Ventures investment in NanoSteel demonstrates its confidence in our company’s potential to achieve widespread impact on the auto industry through our proprietary steel designs.,” said Paratore . “With the support of General Motors’ automotive expertise and technology leadership, we can accelerate the final phases of development of our nano-structured AHSS in the quest to economically lightweight vehicles.”
Last edited by BlueOx; 08-09-2012 at 08:45 AM.
08-09-2012, 09:23 AM
#28
Race Director
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They may have already designed the manufacturing facilities to work with it and accounted for its capabilities in the design of the product. It would make sense to introduce new technologies on a low volume product like the Vette. GM has done that time and time again over the life span of the Vette.
Bill
Bill
08-09-2012, 09:25 AM
#29
Race Director
Thread Starter
More about timing...
http://www.amm.com/Article/3048305/N...ial-debut.html
NanoSteel Co. Inc. and it's steelmaking partners are within months of producing commercial quantities of automotive-quality steel with nano scale microstructures.
08-09-2012, 09:28 AM
#30
Race Director
I will say this, GM has a FANTASTIC HISTORY of failing to utilize even its own intellectual and patented ideas in its vehicles. My taxpayer wallet is thinner due to the failures of GM to use what it knows to produce the BEST vehicles in class all the time. I have no doubt GM is going to leave a TON of technology off the table with the C7.
08-09-2012, 09:36 AM
#31
Race Director
Thread Starter
You are correct, my mistake. They don't say how much GM invested.
08-09-2012, 11:07 AM
#32
Le Mans Master
"There is nothing unique about the process" of making the product, NanoSteel president and chief executive officer David Paratore told AMM. "It's standard steelmaking. It's the chemistry that's unique."
08-09-2012, 11:14 AM
#33
Race Director
Thread Starter
Interview with CEO on Popular Science radio...
http://www.nanosteelco.com/news/2012..._nanosteel.mp3
http://www.nanosteelco.com/news/2012..._nanosteel.mp3
08-09-2012, 11:46 AM
#34
Race Director
Thread Starter
IMHO, Chinese will steal anything they can get their hands on. I'm sure they are checking it out...for all I know NS will have a factory in China.
08-09-2012, 01:40 PM
#35
Burning Brakes
Interview with CEO on Popular Science radio...
http://www.nanosteelco.com/news/2012..._nanosteel.mp3
http://www.nanosteelco.com/news/2012..._nanosteel.mp3
08-09-2012, 02:01 PM
#36
Race Director
Thread Starter
08-09-2012, 02:41 PM
#37
Le Mans Master
That radio host needed to shut up and let the big boys talk. What a maroon.
Whether it's NanoSteel or something else, the place I most want to see stronger material used is in the A-pillar. Please please please let GM have invested in something that allows the A-pillar to be thinner, or at least no thicker than it is on C6 despite the push for better rollover protection. A-pillars are just getting ridiculous.
Whether it's NanoSteel or something else, the place I most want to see stronger material used is in the A-pillar. Please please please let GM have invested in something that allows the A-pillar to be thinner, or at least no thicker than it is on C6 despite the push for better rollover protection. A-pillars are just getting ridiculous.
08-09-2012, 03:01 PM
#38
Race Director
Whether it's NanoSteel or something else, the place I most want to see stronger material used is in the A-pillar. Please please please let GM have invested in something that allows the A-pillar to be thinner, or at least no thicker than it is on C6 despite the push for better rollover protection. A-pillars are just getting ridiculous.
Yup - but isn't that the "price" we pay for the completely removable roof panel with no center bar ala T tops? What with the raked back windshield and no other support, the A pillar has a tremendous job to do in a cantilever configuration. I'm actually surprised it isn't even bigger yet - not that I want that!
08-09-2012, 04:17 PM
#40
Burning Brakes