Corvette LT1 ala Cadillac V-8-6-4 .. BIG BIG MISTAKE!
10-26-2012, 12:14 PM
#181
Melting Slicks
In stop an go driving they can get confused and then they slow down their responses. Braking to a stop opens the clutches, then you see an opening in traffic,you want to go, and the trans seems to say are you sure? then accelerates. Drivien Porsche 911, Mitsubishi EVO MR,and VW they all do it more or less. there are other scenarios like upshifting to early, then you put the car in sport mode to avoid and it wont shift untill 6500rpm. Give me a manual where i control everything instantly, more fun less irritating.
.. and one other thing a fluid change with filter is every 40,000 miles, about $650 with filter, double that for the Porsche.
.. and one other thing a fluid change with filter is every 40,000 miles, about $650 with filter, double that for the Porsche.
10-26-2012, 12:19 PM
#182
☠☣☢ Semper Ebrius ☢☣☠
Clearly.
How does the manufacturer get in? Or are you claiming that they can't?
Because if they can get in then, by definition, there's a way in.
As far as encryption, the only unbreakable encryption is a truly random one-time pad. I'm pretty sure that's not what they're using.
Any computer system can be cracked. Your assertion that this one can't be is ridiculous.
If there is a way in, why hasn't anyone been able to do it? You don't think they are trying? You are WRONG...period
Because if they can get in then, by definition, there's a way in.
As far as encryption, the only unbreakable encryption is a truly random one-time pad. I'm pretty sure that's not what they're using.
Show me some PROOF...until then, it is your opinion and pure speculation.
10-26-2012, 12:34 PM
#183
Melting Slicks
Clearly.
How does the manufacturer get in? Or are you claiming that they can't?
Because if they can get in then, by definition, there's a way in.
As far as encryption, the only unbreakable encryption is a truly random one-time pad. I'm pretty sure that's not what they're using.
Any computer system can be cracked. Your assertion that this one can't be is ridiculous.
How does the manufacturer get in? Or are you claiming that they can't?
Because if they can get in then, by definition, there's a way in.
As far as encryption, the only unbreakable encryption is a truly random one-time pad. I'm pretty sure that's not what they're using.
Any computer system can be cracked. Your assertion that this one can't be is ridiculous.
The fact still remains that until someone can crack their encrypted code and figure out how to alter it, I am right and you are wrong.
10-26-2012, 12:42 PM
#184
Race Director
Clearly.
How does the manufacturer get in? Or are you claiming that they can't?
Because if they can get in then, by definition, there's a way in.
As far as encryption, the only unbreakable encryption is a truly random one-time pad. I'm pretty sure that's not what they're using.
Any computer system can be cracked. Your assertion that this one can't be is ridiculous.
How does the manufacturer get in? Or are you claiming that they can't?
Because if they can get in then, by definition, there's a way in.
As far as encryption, the only unbreakable encryption is a truly random one-time pad. I'm pretty sure that's not what they're using.
Any computer system can be cracked. Your assertion that this one can't be is ridiculous.
Plus, you're arguing OVER A D@MN TOYOTA in a C7 thread.................. just chill, please!
Last edited by tuxnharley; 10-26-2012 at 01:13 PM.
10-26-2012, 12:47 PM
#185
Le Mans Master
I think nobody does AFM with manual transmissions because managing the engagement and disengagement is much more difficult when the computer doesn't control the transmission -- and nobody sells enough manual transmissions to chase the gain yet
All I need to know is MANUAL = NO AFM. 
...the auto version of my car comes off the assembly line beating the manual by about a tenth of a second in the quarter.
Makes me feel the days of MANUAL > AUTO are passed and technology is making auto the tranny to beat.
I know I'm slower in a manual than I'd be in an auto. I don't care. I'm still challenged and rewarded by the manual transmission, and I'll drive one as long as I'm able.
But, I'm not sold on AFM. Even with all the testing they have done, I can't get this feeling out of my head that the engine won't last as long and will have "unmentioned" problems.
And on a side note--because I really don't know these things--why would a designer pick the same 4 cylinders to deactivate? Why not "spread it around"? Why not at least alternate the cylinders that go inactive?
.Jinx
10-26-2012, 01:09 PM
#187
Le Mans Master
In that case I think you'll want to just skim topics for new information leaks and otherwise stay out of C7 until January. Maybe even until several members have taken delivery and reported their own C7 experiences.
10-26-2012, 01:16 PM
#188
Race Director
And once they develop self-driving cars, the days of DRIVER > CAR will be passed. Will you still take the wheel? I know I will.
I know I'm slower in a manual than I'd be in an auto. I don't care. I'm still challenged and rewarded by the manual transmission, and I'll drive one as long as I'm able.
.Jinx
Exactly!
10-26-2012, 01:28 PM
#189
Drifting
I think drivetrain harmonics was the reason used for not including AFM on any C6, irrepective of transmission.
I think nobody does AFM with manual transmissions because managing the engagement and disengagement is much more difficult when the computer doesn't control the transmission -- and nobody sells enough manual transmissions to chase the gain yet
I wonder how many additional manual transmissions AFM will sell
Hasn't this been the way it's been going with all cars over the last several years? Slushboxes don't suck as bad as they used to.
And once they develop self-driving cars, the days of DRIVER > CAR will be passed. Will you still take the wheel? I know I will.
I know I'm slower in a manual than I'd be in an auto. I don't care. I'm still challenged and rewarded by the manual transmission, and I'll drive one as long as I'm able.
Previous incarnations haven't been bad enough to cause manufacturers to shy away from it. Everything is a compromise, but this one seems to have settled out pretty well for most applications and owners. Sure, it's not a good fit for a few, but I know I'm not one of those extreme use cases.
I think some implementations do, or have in the past. But I think the fixed approach is taken because it's less hardware, less programming, and if you pick the right four you can manage heat and other issues just fine. Hopefully someone who's studied it more closely and retained more details can explain better.
.Jinx
I think nobody does AFM with manual transmissions because managing the engagement and disengagement is much more difficult when the computer doesn't control the transmission -- and nobody sells enough manual transmissions to chase the gain yet
I wonder how many additional manual transmissions AFM will sell
Hasn't this been the way it's been going with all cars over the last several years? Slushboxes don't suck as bad as they used to.
And once they develop self-driving cars, the days of DRIVER > CAR will be passed. Will you still take the wheel? I know I will.
I know I'm slower in a manual than I'd be in an auto. I don't care. I'm still challenged and rewarded by the manual transmission, and I'll drive one as long as I'm able.
Previous incarnations haven't been bad enough to cause manufacturers to shy away from it. Everything is a compromise, but this one seems to have settled out pretty well for most applications and owners. Sure, it's not a good fit for a few, but I know I'm not one of those extreme use cases.
I think some implementations do, or have in the past. But I think the fixed approach is taken because it's less hardware, less programming, and if you pick the right four you can manage heat and other issues just fine. Hopefully someone who's studied it more closely and retained more details can explain better.
.Jinx
10-26-2012, 02:15 PM
#190
Race Director
10-26-2012, 02:33 PM
#191
Le Mans Master
Really. C7 General has been all about jumping to conclusions and then complaining about them since it opened; it's only going to get worse in these final weeks, especially as more and more new visitors come in and jump to the same conclusions and make the same complaints that C7 General regulars have beaten like they work at the receiving dock of the glue factory It's like 50% dead horses in here.
It's like 50% dead horses in here.
10-28-2012, 12:12 PM
#192
Safety Car
Member Since: Jan 2007
Location: San Antonio Texas
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As I see it ... The BIG PROBLEM with this new LT1 engine is that it drops 2 cylinders at cruising speed.
Remember the Cadillac V-8-6-4 engine? Well, it dropped cylinders based on engine load. Probably one of the WORST engines designs to date to come out of GM. Well, it didn't last long at all in the Cadillac, and it won't last long in the Corvette either!
___________________________________
Cadillac V 8-6-4
"First experiments with multiple-cylinder engines during WWII, were re-attempted in 1981 on Cadillac's ill-fated L62 "V8-6-4" engine. The technology was made a standard feature on all Cadillac models except Seville. Cadillac, in conjunction with Eaton Corporation, developed the innovative V-8-6-4 system which used the industry's first engine control unit to switch the engine from 8- to 6- to 4-cylinder operation depending on the amount of power needed. The original multi-displacement system turned off opposite pairs of cylinders, allowing the engine to have three different configurations and displacements. But the system was troublesome, and a rash of unpredictable failures led to the technology being quickly retired."
____________________________________
And to think, GM is taking the plunge again and bringing this idea back in no less than there peformance car icon!
Let me be the 1st to say that this LT1 that drops cylinders at cruise speed is going to be the downfall of the C7 ... and I will also be the 1st to tell you that this technology won't last no more than 2 model years in this new Corvette.
Oh ... and did I say that this engine is going to KILL sales of the C7 ... just watch and see!
Remember the Cadillac V-8-6-4 engine? Well, it dropped cylinders based on engine load. Probably one of the WORST engines designs to date to come out of GM. Well, it didn't last long at all in the Cadillac, and it won't last long in the Corvette either!
___________________________________
Cadillac V 8-6-4
"First experiments with multiple-cylinder engines during WWII, were re-attempted in 1981 on Cadillac's ill-fated L62 "V8-6-4" engine. The technology was made a standard feature on all Cadillac models except Seville. Cadillac, in conjunction with Eaton Corporation, developed the innovative V-8-6-4 system which used the industry's first engine control unit to switch the engine from 8- to 6- to 4-cylinder operation depending on the amount of power needed. The original multi-displacement system turned off opposite pairs of cylinders, allowing the engine to have three different configurations and displacements. But the system was troublesome, and a rash of unpredictable failures led to the technology being quickly retired."
____________________________________
And to think, GM is taking the plunge again and bringing this idea back in no less than there peformance car icon!
Let me be the 1st to say that this LT1 that drops cylinders at cruise speed is going to be the downfall of the C7 ... and I will also be the 1st to tell you that this technology won't last no more than 2 model years in this new Corvette.
Oh ... and did I say that this engine is going to KILL sales of the C7 ... just watch and see!
10-28-2012, 09:14 PM
#193
Burning Brakes
In stop an go driving they can get confused and then they slow down their responses. Braking to a stop opens the clutches, then you see an opening in traffic,you want to go, and the trans seems to say are you sure? then accelerates. Drivien Porsche 911, Mitsubishi EVO MR,and VW they all do it more or less. there are other scenarios like upshifting to early, then you put the car in sport mode to avoid and it wont shift untill 6500rpm. Give me a manual where i control everything instantly, more fun less irritating... and one other thing a fluid change with filter is every 40,000 miles, about $650 with filter, double that for the Porsche.
.. and one other thing a fluid change with filter is every 40,000 miles, about $650 with filter, double that for the Porsche.That 4-6-8 engine was made in the early 80s. GM has learned its lesson. e.g. GM also made poor alternators on many of their cars from 1982 until about 1996. (The diodes were soldered to the bearing; and the diodes would get cooked.) Good news: In 1997 GM designed a new alternator which almost never fail from heat. Now, THAT IS PROGRESS!! lol
10-28-2012, 09:20 PM
#194
10-28-2012, 09:50 PM
#195
Melting Slicks
Manual mode does not help stop and go at all, which is the most irratating part of living with a DCT, also you cannot drop two or more gears instantly like in a true manual, it's always sequential. As far as controlling rpm yes you can do that, but then your pulling on two levers, and you still do not have control of the clutch. With a true manual only one lever to control the gearbox and and you still have instantaneous control of the clutch.
10-28-2012, 10:53 PM
#196
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Mar 2010
Location: Manassas VA
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Waitin' around for the "storm of the century" and amusing myself reading this thread. So here is what I learned:
1. Some people here think other people here are stupid
2. Some people here think AFM is good, some people think it is terrible
3. Some people here have had Camaros and trucks with AFM and they say it sucks, other people have vehicles with AFM and say it is fine
4. Some people here think the new much more complicated ECM will not be cracked for years, others think it will be cracked in weeks, and a few seem to be cracked themselves.
Gentlemen, this was almost as much fun as watching the most recent episode of "Boardwalk Empire" earlier tonite and I thank you for the entertaining read.
And awayyyy we go....
1. Some people here think other people here are stupid
2. Some people here think AFM is good, some people think it is terrible
3. Some people here have had Camaros and trucks with AFM and they say it sucks, other people have vehicles with AFM and say it is fine
4. Some people here think the new much more complicated ECM will not be cracked for years, others think it will be cracked in weeks, and a few seem to be cracked themselves.
Gentlemen, this was almost as much fun as watching the most recent episode of "Boardwalk Empire" earlier tonite and I thank you for the entertaining read.
And awayyyy we go....
10-28-2012, 10:55 PM
#197
Drifting
Waitin' around for the "storm of the century" and amusing myself reading this thread. So here is what I learned:
1. Some people here think other people here are stupid
2. Some people here think AFM is good, some people think it is terrible
3. Some people here have had Camaros and trucks with AFM and they say it sucks, other people have vehicles with AFM and say it is fine
4. Some people here think the new much more complicated ECM will not be cracked for years, others think it will be cracked in weeks, and a few seem to be cracked themselves.
Gentlemen, this was almost as much fun as watching the most recent episode of "Boardwalk Empire" earlier tonite and I thank you for the entertaining read.
And awayyyy we go....
1. Some people here think other people here are stupid
2. Some people here think AFM is good, some people think it is terrible
3. Some people here have had Camaros and trucks with AFM and they say it sucks, other people have vehicles with AFM and say it is fine
4. Some people here think the new much more complicated ECM will not be cracked for years, others think it will be cracked in weeks, and a few seem to be cracked themselves.
Gentlemen, this was almost as much fun as watching the most recent episode of "Boardwalk Empire" earlier tonite and I thank you for the entertaining read.
And awayyyy we go....
Almost as fun.
10-28-2012, 11:24 PM
#199
So, given the remark that someone will be considering the C6 now that it's clear the C7 will have AFM/cylinder deactivation, I'm confused (not that hard to do...).
My B-I-L owned a 2012 Camaro. He said it had the same engine as the Corvette. He had AFM (so, sold it). So, does the C6 engine have it or not?
And if not, what about the remark that the Camaro and Corvette use the same enigine?
My B-I-L owned a 2012 Camaro. He said it had the same engine as the Corvette. He had AFM (so, sold it). So, does the C6 engine have it or not?
And if not, what about the remark that the Camaro and Corvette use the same enigine?
10-29-2012, 07:25 AM
#200
Drifting
Makes sense. At the time I was admiring his new car, he mentioned it had a bit less HP than the Corvette engine (for those two reasons).
His replacement was manual. I wonder if he knew about the auto/manual difference as it relates to AFM. I'll have to ask next time I see him.
