Jinx

Well, C6 started production with the old four-speed auto. The six-speed hardly sets a cutting-edge tone, but it works, and it'd be less of an oddball part five years hence. It's what I would have expected GM to do.

So the fact that they're tapping Aisin (which supplies the Camaro V6 auto) for an eight-speed is pretty damn progressive.

I wonder if they'll charge more for the auto.

.Jinx

SCM_Crash

I don't know if I'd call this a GM screw up. We don't really know what auto transmission they're working on, and since it's not yet ready, it makes me think this is something completely new. If it wasn't, it would have just as easy for them to make as it is for them to ready the temporary 8-speed auto.

That being said, I'd rather have an 8-speed in the first year that has great reviews then an unfinished transmission that may have tons of issues that need ironing out over the first model year. I don't really think I'm going to buy the auto, but it'd be good to know that even in the first year they put a good one in.

I do believe it would be stupid to carry over the current 6-speed auto. To me, that would be the GM screw up. But they're being responsible at least and rather than carrying it over to make more money, they're contracting it out to produce a better car. I'm going to have to say that I applaud them for taking more time on the new auto and outsourcing a good transmission.

Great review!

This is what I've been talking about when people complain that the Vette won't have a DCT. A lot of these people have either never been in a car with a DCT in full auto mode or have never been in a car with a proper standard automatic. It's reviews like these that we need to help "calm" the waves.

Yep, and the ZF-6 was pretty bullet proof if I recall correctly. It felt good in the shifts. I drove my friend's '90 6-speed Vette and I loved it. It was so fun I wanted to trade him my C5Z for his C4 for a week. (But then he did stupid stuff to his car and made me not like it anymore. LOL)

Either way, the ZF is a good trans as far as my experience with them goes. But I it's not vast experience, so maybe not the best vote.

SBC_and_a_stick

What if it's not as good? Shouldn't the quality that the costumers get prevail over part origin? GM made the right choice to release the best choice to the costumers. The only question that remains is whether they'll do the same a year from now. If the GM version can't be brought up to par at least, will GM still switch it in?

GM should only produce their version if it can do a better job. That's if GM prioritizes consumer benefit. They seem to have done so here and I applaud the choice.

Reciprocal

The one performance drawback I observed in the 8-spd gearbox of my Lexus IS-F was downshifts were not as quick as upshifts, and if you were cruising down the highway in 8th, and wanted to downshift 3 gears into 5th, you could pull the left paddle 3 times in quick succession but it would queue the shifts and it took longer to get to 5th than you were hoping, 8..7..6..5. A workaround was to move the console lever into D, floor the accelerator pedal and it would downshift directly into 5th skipping the 6 and 7 gears. As soon as it downshifted this way, move the lever back into manual and then follow up with the upshifts which were always immediate.

Bottom line with a zr1 or z06, there is so much torque on tap that all that shifting isn't really necessary to set up for corners. My buddy has a golf gti with dual clutch tranny, had been commenting how quick he gets through corners. We went for a ride in my zr1, I wasn't trying to wow with raw power, but was just demonstrating how quickly it sets up for the corners with proper footwork, heel and toe downshifts, setting it up into the proper gear before going in, trailing the brakes into the turn deep to keep the front planted while carrying enough speed to allow the rear to come around without power, and then powering out as the steering wheel unwinds just like they teach at Spring Mountain. He was wowed by the grip, the way the car stayed flat and turned through the corner without front end push, the way the back comes around without powering it until it's pointed at the exit marker and the power can then be laid down without stepping out to the side. His comment was succinct, "It's just always pulling!" I take no credit, it is just evident that a driver trained in execution of proper technique beats an unskilled driver who relies on superior technology, i.e. dual clutch, awd or whatever.

SBC_and_a_stick

I'm not buying it and I'm a manual transmission die hard. See Justin Bell do a lap in the ZR1 with and without aids , um mechanical assistanc:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJx85diM3IE. He is faster with than without. They he brings up a very important point, consistency. Humans are not very good at this..., and he did a time attack hot lap..., what about, 5 laps, a 2hr race, 24hr? Even with consistency aside, technology can only evolve, and imo has gotten to the point where AWD, dual clutch, active aero, traction control, torque vectoring make even the pros faster, let alone the average person.

The reason I like manual is because I'm physically bound to the car. Playstation 3 driving simulators are a perfect example. When I first bought the wheel and 6 speed shifter for Gran Turismo I was slower but I still enjoyed it a lot more. Maybe this isn't the best example as the wheels and pedals allow more modulation but in the real world technology only seeps in to improve things.

I have no doubt that in the future they will have cars so smart you will only have a start button left and a GPS. But how fun is that? Driving a 6speed manual is like playing the piano or the guitar, your body makes music! It's that physical-mental relationship that counts. At this point in our evolution I don't think you can make the argument that the human is faster, less and less so...but holly... it is fun!

BlueOx

It's a screw-up IMO because you really don't want to have this happen yet again in the first year of another Corvette generation. Just when you want sales to take off with everything buttoned down, you get this kind of situation and it will make some buyers hesitate with the 'first year' jitters.

It just comes off looking like they aren't ready when we all want such a great beginning to this new generation of Corvette. I agree that carrying over the 6 spd makes no sense when a good 8 spd is what other years will have going forward. The auto in the C6 already has a 'slushy' reputation that the C7 wants no part of!

Wherever it is built, the auto in the C7 is going to be scrutinized almost as much as the LT1 engine has been. In the best of all worlds, the GM auto (when it does come out) will have exactly the same specs as the Aisin and perform very close to the same so we don't have to listen to the yammering on about how the first year was better or worse than the rest.

That said, I applaud GM trying to get their new tranny right, if that is even the issue. It just sounds like a production issue from this news. I applaud them for building it in the U.S. I applaud GM in that they are going to substitute a great tranny.

Reciprocal

There's never been any doubt that aids are a difference maker, it's just that the better you are, the less difference they make. Watch the guy in this video. We can only dream to have talent like this, and that goes for Justin too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8By2AEsGAhU

JoesC5

What was the first year of the new C6?

What automatic transmission was available for the first year of the C6's production?

What automatic transmission was available for the second year of the C6's production?

What was the C6's first year's production.

What was the C6's second year's production?

1) 2005

2) 4 speed automatic

3) 6 speed automatic

4) 37,372

5) 34,021

Seems not having the new 6 speed automatic ready for release for the first year of the C6 didn't hurt sales, did it? Since more people purchased the first year C6 vs the second year C6, 'first year' jitters must not have been too much of a deterrent.

tuxnharley

I have no problem with GM's approach. They're not the only ones to phase in new transmissions. Chrysler is taking a 3 year approach to phasing in their Mercedes derived 8 spd automatic across their different models.

In my experience both Aisin and ZF are quality products and have been for a long time. I had an Aisin 4spd OD AT in an '87 Jeep Cherokee that was still going strong when I sold the car at 250k+ miles, and my '92 vette had a ZF spd that was great.

So what if Gm changes transmissions? Most folks really will not care as long as both versions work, and those who do care can either wait or buy twice......

Jinx

BlueOx: spot-on.

The key difference being that no one at GM would acknowledge the existence of the six-speed automatic for Corvette until they revealed the 2006 model. In 2005 they pitched the four-speed auto hard -- it's a proven design, it's beefed up to take more torque, the acceleration times show that four gears is enough for the fat powerband of the LS2, blah blah blah.

And even here where rumors of a six-speed auto had traction, there was a not-insignificant contingent that wasn't about to trust an all-new transmission.


Would we know what to do with a first-year Corvette that was asterisk-free? It stretches out the mystery, it keeps first-year demand manageable, it makes people who wait a year or more feel better, it adds a healthy chunk of arcana to keep future noobs in line... it's practically a public service

.Jinx

JoesC5

While there were no "official" announcements from GM, just about everyone(that was interested in the Corvette) knew a 6 speed auto was in the works, and that was while the 2005 C6 was being produced. I remember reading about it in the online union newsletters. They were discussing about the plant being tooled up for the new transmission and the jobs it would produce and also talking about the delays because of behind schedule delivery of the machine tools being made in China.

Has GM "officially" announced that the 2014 C7 will have a 8 speed auto and a 7 speed manual? Seems that there is a lot of "chatter" about an 8 speed auto and a 7 speed manual, for something that hasn't been "officially" announced by GM.

The "chatter" isn't something that has been brought up during the last couple of days, either.

SBC_and_a_stick

Oh don't give the the Ayrton videos, I'll be stuck at home all day again Check out the shoes too!!

BlueOx

Yeah, I know all that and it is old news. That was then, this is now. It was over 8 years ago when a lot more people were buying Corvettes and there weren't as many competitors as there are now. People here yammer way more about the C6 first year cars now. You evidently don't look back at all the negativity about the '05 here in CF. Part of that was the 4 spd auto vs the 6 spd.

I'm not predicting it will have a big impact either way, it just concerns me. This news, if true, just makes GM look NOT ready so they have to scramble and put another tranny in it when they have had several more years to bring this car out than they were originally going to have. I guess we will just have to see how it all works out in the end.

BlueOx

Yeah, I guess we are all gluttons for punishment.

JoesC5

Oh, I remember all the negativity about the "new" C6 back in 2004/5. 99% was about the headlights. 1% was about the transmission.

The Highlander

I just wonder if the ZF is a better trans than the tr6060.

Larry/car

Could be 1983 again? Will we see a 2014 Corvette? From the date of the first official showing, the factory needs six months before production begins. Figure a month to get the line running without glitches, the best part of the model year is lost.

JoesC5

Plant shuts down 2013 MY for retooling Jan 2013.

Plant starts up production, July 2013.

Plants produces 2014 MY from July 2013 until changeover to 2015 MY in July 2014.

Looks like about a full year of 2014 production to me. July 2013 to July 2014. If there is a delay in the retooling, I doubt if it will subtract more then a couple of months off the 2014 MY production schedule.

SCM_Crash

Fair enough. I totally get this.

I remember people wanted that 93 F-body Borg Warner T56 because of the gearing over the Tremec T56 that came in the later years. They were stronger and geared like the MN12s. One single year and now those transmissions are gold to the SBC and LT1 guys.

With the C6s, some people actually preferred the 4L60 in 2005 because they were better for drag racing. I don't care about drag racing, to be honest, so not having the 6 speed auto would suck to me. Lesser of 2 evils?

And you're right, people b!tch and complain one way or another when there's a variance in anything when it comes to Corvettes. It's a little surprising what people expect out of a $50K car.

hig4s

There is a lot of talk here about the 8-speed auto, but I have yet to see any confirmation that there will be a 7-speed manual.. It seems reasonable and would not surprise me, but I wouldn't bet on it yet either.