Any way for Joe Q. Public to talk to Tadge ???
02-07-2013, 10:30 AM
#22
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It's amazing how people seem to think that their own personal opinion is somehow fact, and it somehow carries more weight than those of the focus groups with whom GM worked when designing the C7.
If you don't like the car, don't buy it. I'm betting Corvette will see an increase in sales over the next few years as they attract buyers who previously would not have considered one.
S.
If you don't like the car, don't buy it. I'm betting Corvette will see an increase in sales over the next few years as they attract buyers who previously would not have considered one.
S.
Sounds more like a rant to me rather than objective journalism that the OP would suggest.
GM has never tried to satisfy all people all the time. They know that is an impossibility. If anyone doubts it, just read the posts here about the C7. 
02-07-2013, 10:46 AM
#23
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The days of a car design being a one-man-band (aka: Duntov) are over. And even with Zora, GM started over-rulling his ideas in the mid 1970's.
Tadge used focus group data to make a lot of the C7 design decisions. They want as many people to like the car (and purchase it) as possible.
I'd imagine for every nit-pic the OP would mention, Tadge could show data that would suggest this would of hurt sales - not increase them.
BTW, the OP did say he thought they got" 90% of the C7 right".... so he's not bashing the entire car.
02-07-2013, 10:47 AM
#24
Just give the car a year for the looks to "normalize". Time will soften the lines, also with new cars like the NSX, ELR; the C7 will not look so.....buisy...
I like it! So for every guy that bitches another will give him a pat on the back.
I like it! So for every guy that bitches another will give him a pat on the back.
Last edited by CitationZ06@yahoo; 02-07-2013 at 12:55 PM.
02-07-2013, 10:57 AM
#25
Scraping the splitter.
The design is beautiful, .. but the decision to paint half the rear end black, ... and a glossy black rather than a matte black as should be a diffuser is strange at best! To cram the Corvette logo so tightly right underneath the oversized flag emblem is .. strange, at best! ... To squeeze the HMSL so close to the tail lights and their black borders, which are so close to the cut line of the contrasting black bumper, then through in the chrome trinkets in the center, just create an effect of "too much" going on back there. This is NOT a single or even minority opinion. To ask the designers "Did you really not see this?" is a valid question of those who have critical appreciation of aesthetic and proportional beauty. Perhaps you're on the "outside", looking in, ... in this arena ... Ox. 
To suggest that only those "who have a critical appreciation of aesthetic and proportional beauty" would agree with your opinions is laughable at best.
S.
02-07-2013, 11:08 AM
#26
Team Owner
The design team, the product team and many members of the core Corvette team make themselves widely available to owners at several events throughout the year (ALMS Corrals, NCM events like the Bash in April, Carlisle to name a few). With that said it is in a public setting and questions are generally answered on a first come first served basis while time permits based on the venue and the planned agenda.
Frankly, I'm not sure what you would get for responses based on the "questions" you've listed here. These really do seem more like individiual complaints that you would like addressed over and above the 90% of the content that you like.
Based on your original post, you can firmly count me as one who is outside of your "consensus". I like and completely support what has been done for the 2014 Corvette and I've made opinion known publicly and privately.
Frankly, I'm not sure what you would get for responses based on the "questions" you've listed here. These really do seem more like individiual complaints that you would like addressed over and above the 90% of the content that you like.
Based on your original post, you can firmly count me as one who is outside of your "consensus". I like and completely support what has been done for the 2014 Corvette and I've made opinion known publicly and privately.
Last edited by talon90; 02-07-2013 at 11:10 AM.
02-07-2013, 12:10 PM
#27
Team Owner
I was very clear what you whined about. No, it is not a valid question since, clearly, every inch of this car is gone over again and again and again by the designers and their supervisors and their upper-level management and finally the top management. Every generation of Corvette has had people who didn't like parts of it. Deal with it.
What's laughable is that you think that if you could just sit Tadge down and talk some sense into him...make him see the error of his ways...that he has just 'missed it' and you're just the guy to straighten him out. Who is full of it?
Apparently you think you have a fine eye for design so why don't you just toddle off and join the others in designing a new Jake?
02-07-2013, 12:29 PM
#28
You'd probably be the 10,000th person to ask him about the tailights. He'd probably tell you that, smile, and point out why they're staying.
02-07-2013, 12:31 PM
#29
Drifting
I love the car - all of it. I do respect everyone's opinions on it as well but where I disagree is with someone putting hard numbers (60% feel blah) to their opinions when, in fact, you can't possibly have any idea what others are thinking. It reminds me of our news media talking about how "most Americans..." when I know what they are trying to convey is their own personal message.
02-07-2013, 12:39 PM
#30
* Gentlemen, with the intricate design of the tail lights put aside, the back end of the car is still incredibly busy! Overwhelming concensus is there's just too much crammed into such a small area. (Black-out paint, vents & more vents, oversized emblems, closely placed lettering, cuts and creases, ... gosh! Did the designers really not see this???
The question: Did the designers really not see this??? is pointless as well. They knew exactly what they were doing and looked at numerous different possibilities before deciding on the final design. It is a little arrogant to claim that they missed something and that if they checked with you first they could have come up with a design that everyone would have liked.
If it bugs you too much don't buy one. If you get a chance to talk with Tadge I am willing to bet everything I own that they won't make a single change after you straighten him out.
02-07-2013, 01:13 PM
#31
Pro
Thread Starter
Yes, in fact I do think I have a fine eye for design. I am an artist, talented with the pencil, chalk, brush, etc. Most members of my family have this talent, and I admit I sometimes just can't see why everyone can't draw? I have concluded that some just can't reconcile what their eyes see with proper relation to lines, placements, colors, etc.
I guess it's the natural talent in me that makes "aesthetic wrongs" stick out like a sore thumb when others claim not to understand.
And yes, there ARE clear areas some venture into that "just don't work/you just don't do!" Mixing plaids and stripes as a fashion would be an example.
I never said they should have checked with me. I'd merely like to hear the thought process behind some of the odd decisions, .. none of which have anything to do with the hard design itself, but rather items of "trim" that can visually swing a project from positive to negative?
I have never said anything about the tail lights. I happen to be among those who love the tail lights! My problem is the busy activity of all the stuff crammed into the rear. There is a photochop out there that shows the car's rear toned down that is among the most gorgeous of any car I've ever seen ... and it has the new tail lights.
Thanks for pointing that out, for those who still think this was originally a post about not liking the design, when it's actually about accessorized decisions only.
I guess it's the natural talent in me that makes "aesthetic wrongs" stick out like a sore thumb when others claim not to understand.
And yes, there ARE clear areas some venture into that "just don't work/you just don't do!" Mixing plaids and stripes as a fashion would be an example.Thanks for pointing that out, for those who still think this was originally a post about not liking the design, when it's actually about accessorized decisions only.
02-07-2013, 01:17 PM
#32
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I don't know who the "majority" and "minority" are on the overall design issue. In the C7 forum, the majority is positive. Other places you read at are different.
And I'm not so sure sales will represent the answer to the question. Because that daggum gorgeous front end will sell that car even if the buyer hates the rear.
...
And I'm not so sure sales will represent the answer to the question. Because that daggum gorgeous front end will sell that car even if the buyer hates the rear.
...
02-07-2013, 01:21 PM
#33
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It just maybe the predomindent design trend of the auto industry in the years to come. The vette will settle and find its place as well as rank among the other design offerings around a similiar or related theme.
02-07-2013, 01:22 PM
#34
Melting Slicks
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Same old nitpicking.
Most people love it and in a couple years there will mostly be two kinds of people interested in late model Vettes here. Those that have a C7 or those that wish they did. There will probably still be a few diehards around however who gloat over their round taillights on their C6 and still swear they will never change I suppose.
Most people love it and in a couple years there will mostly be two kinds of people interested in late model Vettes here. Those that have a C7 or those that wish they did. There will probably still be a few diehards around however who gloat over their round taillights on their C6 and still swear they will never change I suppose.
02-07-2013, 01:31 PM
#35
Melting Slicks
I have had 27 new Corvettes since 1972. You really would thing that someone from Chevrolet/GM/Corvette would have asked me something about Corvettes by now. And dont think I havent tried talking to some of these people. The point is they really dont want to talk to us. They know what they want to do and then they do it. They have shown that with there offers of colors, there option packages being offered. They are not interested in what we want, but only what they want us to have. Its a sad sad subject. The way they do business sent them into a Bankruptcy. Did they learn from the Bankruptcy. I dont think so. Its the same old GM doing the same old thing ...
02-07-2013, 02:00 PM
#36
Team Owner
I don't know who the "majority" and "minority" are on the overall design issue. In the C7 forum, the majority is positive. Other places you read at are different.
And I'm not so sure sales will represent the answer to the question. Because that daggum gorgeous front end will sell that car even if the buyer hates the rear. ...
And I'm not so sure sales will represent the answer to the question. Because that daggum gorgeous front end will sell that car even if the buyer hates the rear. ...
02-07-2013, 02:01 PM
#37
Team Owner
I have had 27 new Corvettes since 1972. You really would thing that someone from Chevrolet/GM/Corvette would have asked me something about Corvettes by now. And dont think I havent tried talking to some of these people. The point is they really dont want to talk to us. They know what they want to do and then they do it. They have shown that with there offers of colors, there option packages being offered. They are not interested in what we want, but only what they want us to have. Its a sad sad subject. The way they do business sent them into a Bankruptcy. Did they learn from the Bankruptcy. I dont think so. Its the same old GM doing the same old thing ...
1000%
02-07-2013, 02:05 PM
#38
This is really frustrating for me. It seems the only people that get to talk or ask questions to Tadge or Ed Welburn is " Matt Lauer", or "Jay Leno", or "Csaba Csere", or some other journalist. None of these people will ever ask the tough questions to these guys.
I'd love a chance to get a one on one with these guys. I'd be respectful, but I wouldn't mince words or bite my tongue. I've brought the coal to the feet of a few politicians before when no one else would.
If given the chance, I'd ask: ....
* Hey guys, you've gotten 90% of the C7 correct, but little trim decisions have brought that opinion number down to about 60%. Surely you must know this?
* Gentlemen, with the intricate design of the tail lights put aside, the back end of the car is still incredibly busy! Overwhelming concensus is there's just too much crammed into such a small area. (Black-out paint, vents & more vents, oversized emblems, closely placed lettering, cuts and creases, ... gosh! Did the designers really not see this???
* Do you guys depend on focus groups a little too much perhaps? Do you really think this select group of invitees represent what the public really feels? Have you or would you be open to trying other non traditional means of gauging the public sentiment?
I'd love a chance to get a one on one with these guys. I'd be respectful, but I wouldn't mince words or bite my tongue. I've brought the coal to the feet of a few politicians before when no one else would.
If given the chance, I'd ask: ....
* Hey guys, you've gotten 90% of the C7 correct, but little trim decisions have brought that opinion number down to about 60%. Surely you must know this?
* Gentlemen, with the intricate design of the tail lights put aside, the back end of the car is still incredibly busy! Overwhelming concensus is there's just too much crammed into such a small area. (Black-out paint, vents & more vents, oversized emblems, closely placed lettering, cuts and creases, ... gosh! Did the designers really not see this???
* Do you guys depend on focus groups a little too much perhaps? Do you really think this select group of invitees represent what the public really feels? Have you or would you be open to trying other non traditional means of gauging the public sentiment?
02-07-2013, 02:16 PM
#40
Team Owner
Yes, in fact I do think I have a fine eye for design. I am an artist, talented with the pencil, chalk, brush, etc. Most members of my family have this talent, and I admit I sometimes just can't see why everyone can't draw? I have concluded that some just can't reconcile what their eyes see with proper relation to lines, placements, colors, etc......
Just because you and your family has a talent for design does not mean that what you come up with everyone is going to like. I am 99.9% sure you understand that. As such, certainly you are not so arrogant as to think that just because you don't like something means it's bad, are you?
I happen to agree with most of what you don't like about the car. But I have a very close friend who is also a huge car nut who loves all the stuff that you and I don't like. Which one of us is wrong? BTW, he is on a list to buy a C7, so I'm pretty sure that GM thinks he is right.
Last edited by jschindler; 02-07-2013 at 02:50 PM.