OnPoint

I suppose that's possible.

I reckon tho that until anybody in here:

- designs a sports car from a clean sheet;
- manuevers thru the myriad manufacturing hurdles necessary to actually build it;
- obtains all required govt certification and passable test results;
- navigates all the other regulatory mandates;
- actually manages to build street worthy copies of it;
- and the car actually manages to offer all-around performance comparable to the Corvette (at any price, let alone at team vette's price point);
- actually is able to garner customers who actually buy it,

then I'm going to be more prone to believe Tadge and team know a hell of lot more about how to do this than anybody in here, myself and yourself included.

And I bet once C7 goes into production, you'll be able to look up the weight of those manifolds if such is still important to you.

Blackdevil77

Hmmm... Nothing Nick at American Racing Headers in Amityville can't fix!

lt4obsesses

Well said.

petermj

This is not related to the manifolds but it kinda is, IMO, Corvette would be better off if GM farmed out the design and let an outsider do it, someone not bound by bean counting. Then, the design could be negotiated down to the corporate reality. Pontiac Fiero was designed this way, it woulid never look like it did if GM did this part. GM killed the Fiero mechanically but the design was excellent.

BlueOx

:rof l:
They should let you design the rear end. The hits just keep on comin'!
Its interesting to ponder that an outsider wouldn't ever be accountable to any "bean-counter". Negotiated down to the corporate reality? That IS being bound by bean counting.

michaelinmech

Remind us again, what did the exhaust manifolds weigh on the Fiero?

petermj

Laugh all you want, we all have our opinons. The method used to piece the new Vette together is typical GM corporate mentality and it shows, in details like these manifolds.

OnPoint

Don't know about farming out the design. I think some of that has been done with some success and other times with less success - Gandini doing some Lambo design vs. Chrysler and Maser's attempts to marry up a car well.

That said, I liked the concept that Fiero represented. Really thought GM gave up on that one way, way too early.

JerriVette

The material chosen for various parts throughout the design were specifically chosen.

The cast iron manifolds successfully muffle the AFM induced noise ...

It will be interesting how the aftermarket successfully designs headers and aftermarket exhausts..

Could be quite a challenge

petermj

Fiero design was contracted out to Entech , it would never happen if Hulki was not around. GM gave up on thinking long time ago...

michaelinmech

"Launched in 1983, the Pontiac Fiero promised to be a good-looking, affordable mid-engine sports car, introducing exciting new techniques in production and design. Alas, it proved to be one of GM's great disasters: overweight and underpowered, tarnished by alarming reports of reliability problems and engine fires. By 1988, the corporation brought down the ax on one it's biggest failures"

OnPoint

Imagine what that little sports car would be today with the benefit of another two decades of development.

Could have been a nice rear/mid-engine ride.

Davidl81

The Vette is a 50k car. You can complain about bean counters all you want, but Tadge was given requirements he had to meet. 50k price, 30MPG, better lap time than C6. If you want a no compromise car go guy a McLaren. Sure there are a few things we could point out and say this would only be 50 dollars more to upgrade, but those 50 dollars start to add up quickly.

Michael A

Michael

BlueOx

Real engineers never have to work within a budget or silly requirements. They are all free-thinking creatives who have no restrictions.

ZL-1

You guys have said some pretty nasty things about Peter but you do have to admit he's pretty damn talented. Even after all this time he has this rare ability to repeatedly post here and be taken seriously by all us fools. He plays us like a fiddle. His threads go on and on and on, fueled by just the right dose of negativity and argumentativity to keep us cranked up and replying. He's good. But sorry, I'm just burned out

235265283...

I think this is a legitimate and interesting technical issue for the OP to introduce. Cast vs. weldment exhaust manifolds involve some subtle and arguable tradeoffs with regard to performance, cost, weight, cat light-off, durability, leak potential, NVH, and probably some other issues I can't think of right now. Cat light-off time is especially important, and I've seen cast vs. weldment arguments in the technical literature on this subject.

My take is that different OEMs interpret the tradeoff differently. For example, while Corvettes such as the LT1 have cast manifolds, relatively inexpensive Ford Mustang V-8s had welded steel "headers" for many years.

Racer X

You did not answer the questions.

Is that because you are not a civil engineer? Is it because you have never lead a project? Or is it because truthful answers would show Tadge is doing his job well, within the design criteria he was given? Is it because it will show that you are complaing about the wrong thing and the wrong person. That it will you are just being petty against Tadge?

I think your not answering the questions says a lot about you.

A stainless steel would be better in what way? What were the design criteria? Without knowing the design criteria; a good engineer wouldn't know the answer. I think cast iron was the best engineering solution for the design criteria for the total product.