General Motors
05-01-2013, 11:34 AM
#41
Drifting
They had to break the crushing weight of their pension and benefit obligations. Could not sell enough cars to do so and the cars they sold had prices that were about $1500 (or more depending on which Wall Street analyst you believe) higher than they needed to be (compared to imports) simply to cover their retiree/union obligations. If they were able to slash prices by an average of $1500, or better yet, plow $1500 worth of quality back into the car... wow.
05-01-2013, 11:54 AM
#42
05-01-2013, 12:43 PM
#43
Drifting
With the release of pretty much every new vehicle in the last two years, GM has made a bold statement of its own return. Through its drastically improved product, this company is assuring us that it is a world power again, and the restoration of its bright ambition is becoming glaringly evident. Vehicles like the C7, the new Camaro, the SS, and Cadillac's entire fleet send a deep message of a glorious uprising back to the top. The effect this will have on the competition will be interesting to watch unfold as well. 
05-01-2013, 02:59 PM
#44
Banned Scam/Spammer
05-01-2013, 03:48 PM
#45
Le Mans Master
With the release of pretty much every new vehicle in the last two years, GM has made a bold statement of its own return. Through its drastically improved product, this company is assuring us that it is a world power again, and the restoration of its bright ambition is becoming glaringly evident. Vehicles like the C7, the new Camaro, the SS, and Cadillac's entire fleet send a deep message of a glorious uprising back to the top. The effect this will have on the competition will be interesting to watch unfold as well.
05-01-2013, 04:09 PM
#46
And now I hear they are adding a diesel Chevy Cruze to their lineup - good move to compete with the Volkswagen Passet TDI which is selling well (my cousin bought one).
05-01-2013, 04:22 PM
#47
True that. In addition to the bail out, many of us lost $$$ on the B/K when the stock went to zero.
Hasn't changed my Love for the Corvette, 'tho!
But I'll be damned if I'll ever buy GM stock again. My Ford stock, however, has gone from $2+ to $13+, with no bailout. Hmmmmm...............
Hasn't changed my Love for the Corvette, 'tho!
But I'll be damned if I'll ever buy GM stock again. My Ford stock, however, has gone from $2+ to $13+, with no bailout. Hmmmmm...............
It still came from us taxpayers.
Last edited by usroute66 MKW; 05-01-2013 at 04:26 PM.
05-01-2013, 04:27 PM
#48
Let's remember that team Rustang has spent the last 3 years continuously updating the look and vastly increasing the HP and the Camaro still comes out ahead. Maybe next gen.
Point is that team Camaro hit the homerun.
05-01-2013, 05:10 PM
#49
Drifting
yep. Mustang can suck it.
05-01-2013, 06:01 PM
#50
Race Director
Yup, same here. My Volt makes a nice "little brother" to my C6! 
05-01-2013, 06:10 PM
#51
Race Director
Let's not forget that the soothsayers of doom here on CF have consistently pronounced the Camaro the ugliest car available. They also say it is doomed because it is pathetically low on HP vs the Mustang.
Let's remember that team Rustang has spent the last 3 years continuously updating the look and vastly increasing the HP and the Camaro still comes out ahead. Maybe next gen.
Point is that team Camaro hit the homerun.
Let's remember that team Rustang has spent the last 3 years continuously updating the look and vastly increasing the HP and the Camaro still comes out ahead. Maybe next gen.
Point is that team Camaro hit the homerun.
IMHO, the Camaro is an overweight ugly retro wannabe that missed the mark. I prefer my SOs '08 Mustang GT to the new Camaros - not that I'm ever gonna own either one!
If the Mustang is a "Rustang", then the Camaro must be what - a "Canarust"?
PS - full disclosure: I do own a '67 GT FB Mustang - parked in the garage right next to the '67 Stingray. They get along just fine!
05-01-2013, 06:25 PM
#52
Burning Brakes
05-01-2013, 10:17 PM
#53
Race Director
Member Since: Aug 1999
Location: Bluffton SC via Canton Oh
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1. So you have to go all the way back to 2000 to come up with an example of bad "customer service"? So what was the outcome anyway? Was it the battery, or was it some other part of the human made machine that caused the battery to fail?
2. According to todays listings on Autotrader, 2009-2010 Cadillac CTS-V
Keep in mind, the the dealership is not an employee of GM. However, the dealership has to answer to GM upon the Customer Satisfaction Index, this is extremely important to most dealers. But, sure there are going to be some bad apples out there. Then there are those that simply paranoid that the dealer likes to stick it people for fun. While one may run across one of these from time to time, it's just not the norm. There is just too much competition out there for dealers to be giving themselves bad reputations.
Remember, there is bad "customer service", and there is "bad customer" service. Many people seem to like to demand the improbable and the impossible, then become inconsolible when it doesn't happen.
2. According to todays listings on Autotrader, 2009-2010 Cadillac CTS-V
Keep in mind, the the dealership is not an employee of GM. However, the dealership has to answer to GM upon the Customer Satisfaction Index, this is extremely important to most dealers. But, sure there are going to be some bad apples out there. Then there are those that simply paranoid that the dealer likes to stick it people for fun. While one may run across one of these from time to time, it's just not the norm. There is just too much competition out there for dealers to be giving themselves bad reputations.
Remember, there is bad "customer service", and there is "bad customer" service. Many people seem to like to demand the improbable and the impossible, then become inconsolible when it doesn't happen.
About the Cadillacs....... I don't know about a V.... I never mentioned a V. I've bought 2 off lease Cadillacs the latest had a 65K sticker and I paid 25K.
All I demand is what I pay for. See I have "good" money. There is not a damn think wrong with my money so I expect the best service possible. Me bad I guess that when a shop wants say $100 an hour that expect the job to be done right and my car not to smell like smoke.
05-02-2013, 12:02 AM
#54
Le Mans Master
With my brand new 2000 C5 I tested the battery and knew it had a bad cell. Of course they did not believe me what do I know? I do all my own maintenance but did have 2 more encounters with them. Asked them to quote a new clutch....they stated 18 hours according to their book...... I never put in a clutch in a C5 I did it myself in 10 hours. But I did let them paint under the front end..... you know where you need to put a jack on the front cross member?? Yea their jack slipped hit the radiator and shoved it up through the hood. Too bad for them I had all that custom engine bay stuff. Funny car sat for 3 days they never called me......had I not showed up maybe they would never had called.
About the Cadillacs....... I don't know about a V.... I never mentioned a V. I've bought 2 off lease Cadillacs the latest had a 65K sticker and I paid 25K.
All I demand is what I pay for. See I have "good" money. There is not a damn think wrong with my money so I expect the best service possible. Me bad I guess that when a shop wants say $100 an hour that expect the job to be done right and my car not to smell like smoke.
About the Cadillacs....... I don't know about a V.... I never mentioned a V. I've bought 2 off lease Cadillacs the latest had a 65K sticker and I paid 25K.
All I demand is what I pay for. See I have "good" money. There is not a damn think wrong with my money so I expect the best service possible. Me bad I guess that when a shop wants say $100 an hour that expect the job to be done right and my car not to smell like smoke.
As far as the V goes, perhaps it was a bad example, maybe their market value is a little better. It was the first model I thought of with a $65 sticker. But you also have to admit that the off lease cars can come in a little below market. Sounds like you got a good deal, though I don't know what model it is. Really depends on market demand which varies.
And darn right you're money is good money, and you deserve top notch service for it. There are actually dealers out there that agree with you. My brother is lead tech at Cadillac dealership. For this reason, he won't let a car out until it's done right. If for example a customer comes in with bad battery, it's not that he doesn't trust the customer or wants to jack up the price, but he wants to make sure that there is not something else wrong in the car causing the battery to drain. So he checks it. Also it's part of the warranty, they have to check the battery and the systems in order to get paid from GM.
The clutch? Well, there is a very specific detailing of the job, it's requirements, and the time. All jobs a rated at this time. Is this right or wrong? Look at it this way, even though we get charged for x amount of hours and it may actually take them less, this doesn't seem all that fair I know. But it goes the other way too. If the tech is slow, or something prevents them from finishing in the book time, you still pay the book time. If there's anything they run across that they need to charge more for, they can't do it w/o your okay.
Most dealers are like any other business. Most of their revenue comes from repeat customers, and the only way to do that is to make happy customers. A good dealership wants to earn your business over the long term, I hope you have found one of those by now.
But I apologize if you took my post as ensinuating you specifically were a "bad customer". I was generalizing in that statement, as I have seen it happen.
Last edited by lt4obsesses; 05-02-2013 at 12:05 AM.
05-02-2013, 12:31 AM
#55
Well, don't get me wrong here, I'm a Corvette/GM guy thru and thru, "dyed in the blue", as can be seen by the previous post/pic, BUT:
IMHO, the Camaro is an overweight ugly retro wannabe that missed the mark. I prefer my SOs '08 Mustang GT to the new Camaros - not that I'm ever gonna own either one!
If the Mustang is a "Rustang", then the Camaro must be what - a "Canarust"?
PS - full disclosure: I do own a '67 GT FB Mustang - parked in the garage right next to the '67 Stingray. They get along just fine!
IMHO, the Camaro is an overweight ugly retro wannabe that missed the mark. I prefer my SOs '08 Mustang GT to the new Camaros - not that I'm ever gonna own either one!
If the Mustang is a "Rustang", then the Camaro must be what - a "Canarust"?
PS - full disclosure: I do own a '67 GT FB Mustang - parked in the garage right next to the '67 Stingray. They get along just fine!
05-02-2013, 11:51 AM
#56
Race Director
Member Since: Aug 1999
Location: Bluffton SC via Canton Oh
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Hey man, I wasn't trying to be critical of you specifically. Really it sounds to me like the dealership you're talking about may be one of those "bad apples" and I can understand why you would be skeptical.
As far as the V goes, perhaps it was a bad example, maybe their market value is a little better. It was the first model I thought of with a $65 sticker. But you also have to admit that the off lease cars can come in a little below market. Sounds like you got a good deal, though I don't know what model it is. Really depends on market demand which varies.
And darn right you're money is good money, and you deserve top notch service for it. There are actually dealers out there that agree with you. My brother is lead tech at Cadillac dealership. For this reason, he won't let a car out until it's done right. If for example a customer comes in with bad battery, it's not that he doesn't trust the customer or wants to jack up the price, but he wants to make sure that there is not something else wrong in the car causing the battery to drain. So he checks it. Also it's part of the warranty, they have to check the battery and the systems in order to get paid from GM.
The clutch? Well, there is a very specific detailing of the job, it's requirements, and the time. All jobs a rated at this time. Is this right or wrong? Look at it this way, even though we get charged for x amount of hours and it may actually take them less, this doesn't seem all that fair I know. But it goes the other way too. If the tech is slow, or something prevents them from finishing in the book time, you still pay the book time. If there's anything they run across that they need to charge more for, they can't do it w/o your okay.
Most dealers are like any other business. Most of their revenue comes from repeat customers, and the only way to do that is to make happy customers. A good dealership wants to earn your business over the long term, I hope you have found one of those by now.
But I apologize if you took my post as ensinuating you specifically were a "bad customer". I was generalizing in that statement, as I have seen it happen.
As far as the V goes, perhaps it was a bad example, maybe their market value is a little better. It was the first model I thought of with a $65 sticker. But you also have to admit that the off lease cars can come in a little below market. Sounds like you got a good deal, though I don't know what model it is. Really depends on market demand which varies.
And darn right you're money is good money, and you deserve top notch service for it. There are actually dealers out there that agree with you. My brother is lead tech at Cadillac dealership. For this reason, he won't let a car out until it's done right. If for example a customer comes in with bad battery, it's not that he doesn't trust the customer or wants to jack up the price, but he wants to make sure that there is not something else wrong in the car causing the battery to drain. So he checks it. Also it's part of the warranty, they have to check the battery and the systems in order to get paid from GM.
The clutch? Well, there is a very specific detailing of the job, it's requirements, and the time. All jobs a rated at this time. Is this right or wrong? Look at it this way, even though we get charged for x amount of hours and it may actually take them less, this doesn't seem all that fair I know. But it goes the other way too. If the tech is slow, or something prevents them from finishing in the book time, you still pay the book time. If there's anything they run across that they need to charge more for, they can't do it w/o your okay.
Most dealers are like any other business. Most of their revenue comes from repeat customers, and the only way to do that is to make happy customers. A good dealership wants to earn your business over the long term, I hope you have found one of those by now.
But I apologize if you took my post as ensinuating you specifically were a "bad customer". I was generalizing in that statement, as I have seen it happen.
05-02-2013, 12:26 PM
#57
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 6,657
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2020 C8 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
05-02-2013, 04:30 PM
#58
Race Director
(big sigh) So many misconceptions about the Volt. It would be nice if you would do a little research before you post up and show how uninformed you really are, rather than just buying into the myths that are out there.
- The Volt concept show car was at the Detroit Auto Show in 2008, so R&D costs were sunk well before that, under the Bush administration and well before the B/K and bailout.
- The tax deduction reduces my taxes, not increases yours. Is there a tax surcharge on your 1040?
- If anybody "helped pay for the Volt" , it is those who, like me, lost $$$ on the old GM stock when they went B/K. I lost over $15k on that deal, so if any body "helped", I subsidized my own car.
OTOH, if you feel compelled to "help", I'll be glad to PM you my PayPal account name..................
Try getting your facts together before you parrot generalizations you have heard somewhere.
If you think this is harsh, I'm actually being nice because you are a one month newb, and so some sloppiness is to be expected on your part.
- The Volt concept show car was at the Detroit Auto Show in 2008, so R&D costs were sunk well before that, under the Bush administration and well before the B/K and bailout.
- The tax deduction reduces my taxes, not increases yours. Is there a tax surcharge on your 1040?
- If anybody "helped pay for the Volt" , it is those who, like me, lost $$$ on the old GM stock when they went B/K. I lost over $15k on that deal, so if any body "helped", I subsidized my own car.
OTOH, if you feel compelled to "help", I'll be glad to PM you my PayPal account name..................
Try getting your facts together before you parrot generalizations you have heard somewhere.
If you think this is harsh, I'm actually being nice because you are a one month newb, and so some sloppiness is to be expected on your part.
Last edited by tuxnharley; 05-02-2013 at 04:42 PM.
05-02-2013, 04:38 PM
#59
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Apr 2006
Location: The Beautiful Inland Empire WA.
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Well IF Government Motors can start to make products that are not just "good enough", but significantly better than their competition......then maybe the U.S. can sell their stock without losing another 100 billion from the collapse of GM.....GM still has a long way to go before they stop losing market share --- which they've done every year for the past 15.
05-02-2013, 04:47 PM
#60
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 6,657
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2020 C8 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
(big sigh) So many misconceptions about the Volt. It would be nice if you would do a little research before you post up and show how uninformed you really are, rather than just buying into the myths that are out there.
- The Volt concept show car was at the Detroit Auto Show in 2008, so R&D costs were sunk well before that, under the Bush administration and well before the B/K and bailout.
- The tax deduction reduces my taxes, not increases yours. Is there a tax surcharge on your 1040?
- If anybody "helped pay for the Volt" , it is those who, like me, lost $$$ on the old GM stock when they went B/K. I lost over $15k on that deal, so if any body "helped", I subsidized my own car.
OTOH, if you feel compelled to "help", I'll be glad to PM you my PayPal account name..................
Try getting your facts together before you parrot generalizations you have heard somewhere.
If you think this is harsh, I'm actually being nice because you are a one month newb, and so some sloppiness is to be expected on your part.
- The Volt concept show car was at the Detroit Auto Show in 2008, so R&D costs were sunk well before that, under the Bush administration and well before the B/K and bailout.
- The tax deduction reduces my taxes, not increases yours. Is there a tax surcharge on your 1040?
- If anybody "helped pay for the Volt" , it is those who, like me, lost $$$ on the old GM stock when they went B/K. I lost over $15k on that deal, so if any body "helped", I subsidized my own car.
OTOH, if you feel compelled to "help", I'll be glad to PM you my PayPal account name..................
Try getting your facts together before you parrot generalizations you have heard somewhere.
If you think this is harsh, I'm actually being nice because you are a one month newb, and so some sloppiness is to be expected on your part.
I'm happy you got a tax break for your new Volt. Can I get one for a new C7?
No?