chaase

I also heard that the Euro pedestrian standards are the reason you don't see hood ornaments anymore.

CETA 256

sam90lx

Thanks, Im assuming it is because the C7 is lower in the front? It's to bad as it takes away from the nice front end look.

JoesC5

Every reason you listed as a benefit to getting rid of the pop up headlights was true in every single year from 1963 through 2004. That's 41years of pop ups. At any time during that 41 years they could have gotten rid of the pop ups, but it was the EU regulations that did them in. Even if the pop ups were the same weight, the same reliability and the same efficiency, they would have been gone for 2005, because of the EU regulations pertaining to pedestrian safety.

The lighter weight, greater reliability and greater efficiency were a result of the change not the cause of the change.

The EU regulations was the catalyst that brought on the C6's headlights(no pop ups).

RC000E

Sam...I have to wonder if you ever get tired of making assumptions, then quickly get proven wrong by someone who actually invests the time to know about cars versus assuming everything?

Every statement you make, is some negative remark about the C7 that ends up being some baseless stupidity. Will you ever stop? Will you ever take a moment to ATTEMPT to see the bigger picture? Doesn't it sadden you to know 1/4 of story, but make statements like they are 100% fact, then often just be proven wrong by someone else?

Can you just make a better effort to think before you type? That's all I ask. Or, if you don't want to think...ask a question instead of making some negative assumption just to bash the car like an idiot?

You wearin me down dude...big time...

RC000E

Joe, you're arguing a moot point. GM got in ALMS racing AFTER the design of the C5 was complete and on the market. After initial seasons of success, the goal of GM was not to race "inspire" the Corvette, but to design it and the race car as one.

The fact was, and this is STRAIGHT out of Doug Fehan's mouth...they demanded TWO major things of the C6...more front end cooling capability, and no flip up headlights. They couldn't get enough light to see at LeMan either, due to the restrictive nature of the modified headlight housing. Additionally, even the modified headlight housing had a drag penalty.

The fact is, EU standards AND the fact they were racing (and winning) in ALMS necessitated the removal of the popup lamp. Either factor would've caused the removal of the pop up headlight...guaranteed.

Michael A

The poor C5 headlamp light distribution has nothing to do with them being popups. That's a function of the optics not being designed very well. The C6 HIDs aren't all that great either compared to other HIDs.

Let's hope the C7 headlamps are up to modern standards.

Michael

talon90

I completely understand that. However, the HID generally require non-pop up. I was simply stating that a benefit of them leaving the pop-up design was able to facilitate improvements to the lighting via HID.

BlueOx

Joe, I have shown you the designer's interview and NOTHING about EU or any other regs was ever mentioned about that and you know it. Deal with it.

You know that the heavy weight, poor popup motor reliability, and much greater efficiency were major factors what caused the design to change. As Paul mentioned, there were major factors that came from the manufacturing also.

Using your logic, the C7 tail lights would only be redesigned because of the EU laws.

You have NO proof from GM that they ever used the EU regs as the reason they did that.

JoesC5

My point is that even if the Corvette was never raced, and every single person that wanted to purchase a Corvette to drive on the street said they would not if it didn't have pop up headlights, the headlights still would have been gone on the 2005. They were regulated out, not designed out. Do you think all those other cars that were being built during the C5 era that had pop up headlights, also got rid of them so they could go racing in ALMS?

Guibo

Article from around the time of the C6's introduction:

"I like flip-up headlights, but I like them best when they are flipped down. In fact, there has never been a car with flip-up headlights that look better with the lights closed. So when I got my first glance at the new Corvette for 2005, with the clear lenses over the multi-beam headlights, I personally thought it was a major improvement.
But it wasn’t until the national media introductory drive of the Corvette, at the General Motors proving grounds in Milford, Mich., that General Motors illuminated its reasoning for the change. The journalists going to Milford went in what was called waves, �which has never been more appropriate. An early-morning downpour turned into an all-day downpour, and GM had to close down the road course, which had standing water on numerous low spots. It was either that or announce that the newest GM vehicle would be called the Ark.
The closing of the track meant that we got our chance to drive the new Corvettes on highways surrounding the proving grounds. We kept the speed down, and got to test the car‘s stability and traction a little, and its windshield wipers a lot. It also give us good reason to tune in completely during the pre-driving lectures inside a huge tent, including chief designer Luke Ananian, who was describing the features as he walked us around the car.
He pointed out that the headlights had small, bullet-like, high-intensity xenon gas discharge projector bulbs, two to a side. All four of them are on when you hit the high beams, said Ananian. And when all four are on, you have 80 percent more light than on the C5 Corvette, with a 25 percent greater spread. The foglamps [located low in the bumper] have a complex parabola design. The foglamps have 58 percent of the total light of the current C5 headlights. �
The tremendous improvement in lighting was impressive, but also surprising, because many other cars from European, Japanese and other U.S. companies all have featured HID xenon lights for a decade or so. I had never noticed the Corvette lights were poor, but it was always noticeable when other cars had the xenon lights.
'It’s true, we’ve never had them on the Corvette before,' � said Ananian. 'We couldn’t package projector HID lights in the pop-ups.' �
So there you have it. Chevrolet was caught in a public relations trap. It’s not proper to point out that your company ever had a problem, and promoting the new lights required divulging a shortcoming of Corvettes since 1963. On the other hand, by making a big deal of the new, improved lights, Chevrolet could have defused all the consternation and controversy from loyalists about turning away from pop-up headlights. One drive at night will be sufficient evidence."
http://newcarpicks.com/site/?p=13261

The desire to appeal to the European market was always a priority in designing the C6. It's no secret that Dave Hill wanted to improve Corvette sales in Europe; GM had wanted to double the sales from 1000 per year to 2k/yr. Tom Peters has said that was the impetus in keeping the Corvette's size down, so that it would be wieldy like a 911 down narrow European lanes. It's mentioned here (and with the headlight design):
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB109120628548679101.html

The first European pedestrian safety measures took effect in 2005 (and yes, they affected hood ornaments too). Such regulations rarely pop up, no pun intended, out of nowhere. The provisions are submitted, reviewed, debated, and revised years in advance. GM surely must have known about it, and they would also have known that non-HID lamps would be a non-starter for many Europeans who drive in mountainous regions with inclement weather. Much of Europe is also higher in latitude, meaning extended periods of darkness during winter, relative to positions closer to the equator. While they might not explicitly cite the legislation as a reason, it's hard to see how they could have conformed in any way whatsoever to the regulations without fixed headlamps.
The racing explanation is a convenient one, and one that certainly adds to the marketing allure, but I'd say that was a tertiary consideration at best. A drive toward higher European sales would have effectively been ground to a halt due to non-conformance, as well as for poor lighting.

ANTIVNOM

Those crash stds have certainly resulting in some very unappealing front ends. All of the new BMWs for example are horrid IMO, especially the 3 series. Hoods look spastic and the hose is all jutted out and doesn't flow well with the design. Thankfully GM's engineers seemed to have worked around it much better than BMW did.

ANTIVNOM

Hmmm. The redesigned S-class Mercedes for 2014 certainly has one. I suspect it may be more a matter of having a hood ornament that breaks very easily if much pressure is applied, so it can't effectively "stab" someone.

sam90lx

Like I give a Damn....use the ignore function pal!

sam90lx

Hey Talon90......RC boy is gonna tell us why the 2014 Camaro does not have Fangs!

RapidC84B

If the goal is to push people off to the side or collect them in the center, wouldn't the C7's pointed front push them off to the side naturally w/o the need for the fangs?

BlueOx

Here is the next-gen Mustang for the Euro market...

BERETTA

So with the new design I wonder if any testing was done to see if this increases the danger to occupants associated with hitting animals?

sam90lx

No fangs?

su8pack1