Speednet

They would most likely not just enable it in Eco mode, even if that's the way you personally think it should work. That's because they don't measure the EPA rating in Eco mode. A Stop/Start feature would be enabled every time you start the car, and in the normal driving mode, because otherwise it would not count toward the CAFE standard / EPA ratings, so there would be no purpose to it.

99C5JA1

I'm afraid this is very likely. We can only hope that a saner EPA and Congress will change this in the near future. If not I think we're in for some rough times as auto enthusiasts.

I'd rather see the Government do something like force the auto manufacturers to donate money into R&D programs focused on alternative fuels/power sources (since they are going to force them to do something). Although the various manufacturers have very talented engineers, the task to design the cars of tomorrow while maintaining and improving current models seems to result in evolutionary designs. Giving money to top tier Technical Colleges (MIT, etc) and similar organizations seems like the best place to really get a breakthrough. Otherwise at this rate we are going to end up with very small and underpowered vehicles. It may even make the '80's seem great.

themonk

It's funny how most of you are always so resistant to change for the better, first it was CHMSL's, then ABS, SRS, DTRL, etc.....Start/stop has been around for years in Europe and guess what, the world hasn't come to an end, as long as it's not too perceptible then WTF cares if it's there or not. Some people seriously have to learn to relax and just live their lives, if you don't want it in your car, don't buy a car that has it, simple.

Guibo

Maybe not a bad idea. At the very least have it degrade to 4-cylinder mode or even a V-twin.


This study shows that in carefully controlled dynamometer conditions and with controlled on-road routes, there is a benefit to stop-start:
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehicles...r_vehicles.pdf

When conditions are less controlled (heavy use of A/C, drivers in fleet who may not know how to best maximize stop-start, etc), there can be no major improvement.


From the OP's link:
"'Customers will have to put up with changes from what they traditionally expected in order to get better fuel economy,' Juechter says."

I think we saw an inkling of that on these very forums when gas prices spiked (threads on hypermiling and the like). Juechter is just informally acknowledging that traditional habits on the part of customers and sports car makers will have to change if you want these cars to continue to exist. Customers with stop-start should adjust their driving to suit the technology; eg, if you hate the 1 second or whatever it takes for the engine to fire up, you might try looking 2 cars ahead instead of just waiting for the car in front to move, before you release the brake. The C7's predictive sensing in its manual transmission (used for Rev Matching) could be tuned for this too. Customers could program the paddle shifters to turn off stop-start in Eco mode if they sense a particularly tricky roundabout or intersection coming up.

kdepew

From people who have used cars with it, it sounds like it is perceptible and annoying. No one said the world would come to an end if this was added to all cars. The world wouldn't come to an end if they quit making Corvettes either. However, it would make the car less enjoyable. People don't buy Corvettes for fuel economy. Adding fuel saving functionality that detracts from the driving experience doesn't make sense.

We need a change in direction of government. It is a shame Obama was re-elected.

BlueOx

I've driven my share of rental cars with Stop/Start and have a Camry Hybrid with it. I never even notice it in normal traffic. I'm sure if you have a manual you'd just be a little into the gas anyway.

zr-1 guy

until you're replacing starters every 3 years...

Never-Enough

Sure, let's all remember to push 50 buttons & then left, right, up, up, down A, B, A, B while also trying to drive & pay attention to the road.

Weasel

Right now I'm against it, but who knows how I'll feel when the time for it comes.

Guibo

It makes sense financially to GM. Not everything on the Corvette is there for the driving experience. There are luxury and safety items on the car that don't necessarily add to the driving experience, but they make it possible for the Corvette to be sold in the numbers that it does.
CAFE standards have been increasing long before Obama. CAFE itself was established into existence under a Republican president.

msm859

I doubt it. Tesla has a sedan that officially goes 0-60 4.2 seconds. Some test have it quicker. The "idea" for start stop is good. Why waste gas just sitting there? Perhaps the implementation needs work. Not sure why everyone is not in favor of getting off the dependence on foreign oil/power.

Guibo

As I suggested, it would only be a pull of the paddle. I'll bet there are already drivers doing far more than that on the road.

Cars with stop-start already have upgraded starters compared to conventional cars. As mentioned, there could be starterless technologies in the works.
You'd have to weigh that against the possibly millions of gallons of fuel saved every year. Not to mention the spewing of burnt fuel whenever you're sitting at a long stoplight or railroad crossing or lining up for gas at Costco. You have 20-50 cars around you just sitting there, idling, going nowhere. Multiply that by 50-100 other similar situations in your city, then multiply that again by however many cities there are in this country. Then do the same for however many countries there are in the world. At what point do you think "This is a little bit crazy"?

Guibo

He did say "at least all-engine, non-hybrid performance," but agreed on that point. BMW's i8 looks to be a new way of looking at performance too, which should go down in price in later models. I think the dependence on foreign oil is important too, with national security and geopolitical ramifications.

Supercrewbear

The most annoying part of a (please don't scorch me!) Porsche Panamera... It *does* restart the engine very quickly - from the time you remove your right foot from the brake peddle until you put it onto the accelerator, the engine will have restarted - assuming you're not trying to do the move as fast as humanly possible. Yet it is still annoying because it can be felt more than heard - a little shudder. It can be turned off though by putting the car into SPORT mode - a trick the salesman had me do in an initial test drive to - to hide the feature evidently.

Never-Enough

Don't we have plenty of oil here, though?

Never-Enough

Maybe he should have said performance cars that people can actually afford. Most people cannot afford a Tesla.

Guibo

Perhaps we do, but for how long? And not all of it that is produced here stays here; a lot of it is exported.

Tesla S is not much more expensive than a Z51 C7 with some options, $62k with tax credits. Most people cannot afford a Corvette either, which starts at close to the median yearly salary.

texvette2

Come on people. You do not want that feature. Like said above its truly annoying and
hard to see any benefits. More than likely will be a safety hazard in the future when
they fail to fire and get rear ended.

I passed on a BMW X3 to get the old tech in a 13 X5. It just felt weird driving
that SUV, have it shut off and than fire back up. Might as well drive a golf cart

zr-1 guy

Trackaholic

Start/stop still has a way to go IMO. I know it is used extensively in Euro cars, and in order to improve EPA numbers it defaults to "on" (GM had to average the highway mileage on the Vette because AFM isn't on by default). In every review I've read of a Euro car with start/stop, the writers complain about how bad it is. BMW in particular seems to have problems with it not restarting properly.

IMO, if you have a 15-20 HP electric motor tightly integrated into the drivetrain, and maybe a supercapacitor to power it, I could see it being reasonable in that the large "starter" motor could get you moving as the engine comes on-line.

I'd rather have the Vette go into a V4 or even V2 mode while idling, at least to keep the feel and sounds more consistent, and to prevent the startup issues that seem to plague these systems.

I wonder why V4 is currently not used when idling? Too much vibration perhaps? Audi uses active engine mounts to counter some of that. Maybe GM could do something similar, although with the torque tube it may not be so simple. Anyhow, still a bit of development required on these systems IMO.

-T