05dsom

$22,191 profit margin per car (all porsches combined)

Jimbob26

I am buying a C7 because I think it will be the best car available, period. If the reviews and demand push the prices up, so be, although it's not my motivation for buying, as I don't plan on selling it. But, with that said, think back to the ORIGINAL Lexus LS400, a car that burst onto the luxo-car scene for tens of thousands less than the competition from Germany. Eventually, the prices of the Lexus went up as the manufacturer recognized the customers thought the car was a bargain even at the higher prices, BUT...the costs still remains less than the Germans.

I don't ever see the Corvette in the 911 or R8 price point, but it doesn'r mean it's not a better car even for less money. The fact is GM can spread it's costs out over a much broader automotive line and the companies like Porsche, Audi and Jaguar simply cannot compete on a dollar-for-dollar basis. It means GM has a significant advantage.

Notch

Do you mean Porsche and Audi can't compete with GM in terms of MSRPs, or can't compete with GM in terms of profit margin?

Guibo

I'm sure the look is a huge part of the appeal. There are quite a few people who option up their Caymans and even Boxsters to well beyond what a base 911 costs. Very few people order stripper Porsches (and for that matter, it's not like 50% of Corvettes are stripper base models either). Shoots a hole into Achmed's insinuation that Boxster buyers choose their cars to try to fool the general public into thinking they're driving 911s. Their median income suggests they can easily afford a well-optioned 911 S, let alone the base 911.

Guibo

Prestige influencing a decision != prestige determining a decision. Your entire argument has been claiming the latter, with zero evidence. If prestige were such a motivating factor, what happened to the 944 and 928? Why isn't a stripper Boxster the hottest selling Porsche sports car? After all, there are far more people at that car's income level than a Boxster or Cayman loaded up to 911 prices.

It wouldn't really matter, as whoever's collecting this data isn't likely to suddenly use one methodology for one brand, and then a totally different one for another.

So what do you think the average Corvete buyer's income is? Here's an easy specific case: What do you suppose the C6 Z06's target demographic income was?
Are you telling me there is no difference between the median income of a Corvette buyer vs one who buys a Bugatti Veyron?

And I didn't see your answer: When you eat out at a restaurant, do you choose only between budget fast food chains like McDonald's, BK, DQ, Taco Bell, etc? You've never, ever paid for a personal meal that costs over $10?

B747VET

I think most folks would wait to compare the GT2 with the C7 Z cars. Of course if one is desperate to win a debate point at any cost, logic and fairness be damned and full speed ahead!

Not sure if your point is to comment on the intellect of Porsche management or the intellect of Porsche buyers? Or, is it both?

Guibo

We have seen Corvettes (Z06, ZR1) at the 911 and R8 price point. But the sales figures suggest that is not what people in that segment generally want. If you're saying that GM can spread its R&D over a much broader automotive line (eg, basic engine development shared with trucks and SUVs) as a basis for why the Corvette should cost less (and then factoring in wage and currency differences), then I'd say that makes sense.

Achmed

Please show me where I said this, liar.

Achmed

Lol.

I take it you're pointing out the irony in the Porsche faithful being proud that their car-maker makes the most profit off of them any other?

Notch

Not when someone is opining that the 911..."fundamentally it is antiquated design technology, desperately grasping at the future with the mechanical and technological equivalents of Botox and face lifts and artificial knees." A 997 GT2 RS vs ZR1 or C6Z comparison is very germane. When the 991 GT2 RS is released it can be compared to the C7 ZR1 and C7Z. My guess is that the 911's "antiquated design technology" will still keep it at an equal or lower Ring lap time relative to those GM products.

Pointing out that a 7:18 lap time at the Ring doesn't represent an "antiquated" [sic] design doesn't represent a desperate attempt to win a debate point. It is simply pointing out the obvious.

It's the intellect of Porsche management, and the choices of sports car buyers. Porsche management is not going to attempt to fix what isn't broken, and the market has (and is) voting with their wallets by paying, as part of the 911's MSRP, that portion that represents Porsche's big profit margin. In simple terms; Porsche builds cars people want, and people are willing to pay the huge cost of admission to own and drive the 911. These buyers are not doing this to own an "antiquated" 911.

Guibo

I said you insuated it, right here:
All throughout this discussion, you've been saying people buy Porsches for prestige (you've previously said you pretty much see no other reason). In that post, you are insinuating that people buy Boxsters under the assumption that the common man doesn't know the difference between a 911 and a Boxster. So thus, by buying a Boxster, he is appropriating for himself some of the status of a 911 (which is higher than that of the Corvette), even though the Boxster costs far less than a ZR1.

Racer X

Imagine what Porsche could accomplish on the ring if they put them money on engineering the Cayman platform that they have on the 911 platform and allowed it to have the same engines and similar transmission. Instead the cripple the power to keep the performance below the 911.

It would be like what if GM had spent a few extra bucks on the Fiero and allowed it to have a V8.

I will admit Porsche has executed well on their business model on producing cars. They did get a little big for their pants when they tried to take over VW, so they are not perfect in business either.

Achmed

Maybe if you wiped the Porsche semen off of you glasses you wouldn't put silly words in my mouth like claiming I "insinuated" that Cayman/Boxter buyers are trying to fool the general public into believing they have a 911, just because I said most people don't know the difference between a Cayman and a 911, in an answer to an unrelated question from you.

I would be very very curious to see how you would score in an LSAT test lol, would be funny to see how low it would be.

Notch

You mean produce something like the 918?

skank

Guibo, You do know what material specification stands for don't you? I hope you understand that.

VETTE-NV

Nice.

Notch

The price reflects the quality that people see in the car, because if people didn't consider the car to be worth the premium, Porsche wouldn't be selling any of them.

Racer X

yes very much like that, but with a 6 and more in the 911 price range.

The 918 is quite a car, from what I have seen. Should be stellar.

Of course, you do not know until you have seen tests on a production car, then you will have to wait after they have been in customer hands for 6 months to a year because they could be utter crap, since Porsche had like 25 recalls in 2012 alone! I mean the car is all new, they can't possibly have done any testing or have quality control procedures.

v26278

258 posts about a magazine test that has not even been published yet. Most of which are are a re-hash of previous discussions/debates. I look forward to seeing the actual test results, though no doubt we'll see yet another re-hash of all the above.

VETTE-NV

Classic! Way to put the Porsche **** spin on it. I guess you can rationalize anything if you need to.