People with bad knees that are thinking about an automatic.
#41
This nonsense about not using the clutch needs to stop.
You ALWAYS need to use the clutch when shifting gears. Synchronizers are designed to change the speed of ONLY the clutch disk. They can only do that if you depress the clutch. If you don't use the clutch, the entire engine rotating assembly is still attached to the transmission through the clutch. Shifting without depressing the clutch is asking the synchronizers to change the speed of the entire engine rotating assembly which is MUCH GREATER (like orders of magnitudes greater) than just the clutch disk.
You will wear out your synchronizers MUCH sooner if you dont use the clutch.
Rev matching can't change the engine RPM before you physically move the shifter into the gear. You would be using the synchros to "rev match" for you.
You ALWAYS need to use the clutch when shifting gears. Synchronizers are designed to change the speed of ONLY the clutch disk. They can only do that if you depress the clutch. If you don't use the clutch, the entire engine rotating assembly is still attached to the transmission through the clutch. Shifting without depressing the clutch is asking the synchronizers to change the speed of the entire engine rotating assembly which is MUCH GREATER (like orders of magnitudes greater) than just the clutch disk.
You will wear out your synchronizers MUCH sooner if you dont use the clutch.
Rev matching can't change the engine RPM before you physically move the shifter into the gear. You would be using the synchros to "rev match" for you.
Last edited by gr814u2c; 09-09-2013 at 01:25 PM.
#42
Safety Car
I was viewing the YouTube video posted by Wes Milby and noticed something that swayed me toward the 7 speed. The C-7 has computer controlled rev matching so theoretically after you use the clutch to start out in 1st you should be able to drive without the clutch.
I probably would not try driving a stick if I was still living on Long Island and driving on the LIE where the is a lot of stop and go traffic. But as long as you don't come to a complete stop you should be able to drive without using the clutch with the rev matching.
To me half the fun of owning the Vette is shifting it. In have matched revs by ear and drove to a dealer without a clutch when the hydraulic clutch failed but with the computer matching revs you should be able to drive without touching the clutch as long as you don't drive in ares like NY city, Washing DC or any area with stop and go traffic.
If the only thing that is holding you back is ordering a stick is bad knees maybe you should consider that you can drive the C-7 without using the clutch.
I probably would not try driving a stick if I was still living on Long Island and driving on the LIE where the is a lot of stop and go traffic. But as long as you don't come to a complete stop you should be able to drive without using the clutch with the rev matching.
To me half the fun of owning the Vette is shifting it. In have matched revs by ear and drove to a dealer without a clutch when the hydraulic clutch failed but with the computer matching revs you should be able to drive without touching the clutch as long as you don't drive in ares like NY city, Washing DC or any area with stop and go traffic.
If the only thing that is holding you back is ordering a stick is bad knees maybe you should consider that you can drive the C-7 without using the clutch.
#43
Safety Car
There's always the knucklehead that pulls up behind you at the stop light on a nasty hill and is sitting 6 inches off your rear bumper. Enough said.
with modern synchros, you don't need rev matching to shift without using a clutch.
Way back a few decades ago before synchromesh gears were invented people had to double clutch in order to match revs to the gear you were shifting into. Rev matching with the computers aid is basically doing the same thing people did back in the day when double clutching was a common and necessary process.
If you do it right there won't be any damage to the syncro gear. This is pure guess work on my part but if the computer matches revs as well as I believe it will anyone with minimal skill should be able to get in a new Vette and sift thru the gears without using the clutch.
You ALWAYS need to use the clutch when shifting gears. Synchronizers are designed to change the speed of ONLY the clutch disk.
And these people vote.
#44
Melting Slicks
I was told by a manager of my Chevy dealer that the next C7 Z06 will come in a automatic. That would be the sh*t... I have a 2013 Z06 and love it until I get in town stop light to stop light....
#45
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That is the reason why I started this thread in the first place, there may be many other people like myself that want a standard transmission but they have occasional flare ups which will occasionally make it uncomfortable to depress the clutch. I brought up the topic because some people that thought they couldn't drive a standard shift but want one may not have been aware that they may be able to order the car the way the wanted it.There always has been the option of using good old fashioned skill to listen to the engine and shift without the clutch but the computer rev matching may allow people that don't feel confident in their ability to be able to drive without using the clutch. I am sure there are people like myself that occasionally have knee problems but really want their Vette with stick shift.
I am sorry to repeat myself but I especially want they stick shift because I moved to an area where I won't be stuck in traffic on the LIE and drive 5 or 10 feet then stop a few minutes then move again and repeat the process. Driving a stick is an enjoyable experience but not so much when you daly drive consists of being stuck in traffic.
#46
What if a GM engineer came on here and said that they WOULD NOT recommend using the MANUAL transmission car they way you are suggesting. Would that put an end to this?
If you do it right there will be no damage and it will be a non-issue. In my case the rev matching may very well play a big part in my decision. I intend on driving the car using the clutch but I am plagued with back and knee problems. As a matter of fact I spent the past 2 or 3 weeks suffering from back and knee pain but I am back to normal. If the rev matcher functions the way I expect it to work it will allow me to order the car the way I truly want it. IMO having any C-7 or any Corvette be it automatic, Vert or whatever is better than not having a Vette. My point is being able to order a standard trans is something I really want but would be difficult to drive when my knees are causing me discomfort. Being able to order the car the way I want it because I can drive it without using the clutch when my knees are acting up is going to play a big part in the decision I make when I order a 2015.
That is the reason why I started this thread in the first place, there may be many other people like myself that want a standard transmission but they have occasional flare ups which will occasionally make it uncomfortable to depress the clutch. I brought up the topic because some people that thought they couldn't drive a standard shift but want one may not have been aware that they may be able to order the car the way the wanted it.There always has been the option of using good old fashioned skill to listen to the engine and shift without the clutch but the computer rev matching may allow people that don't feel confident in their ability to be able to drive without using the clutch. I am sure there are people like myself that occasionally have knee problems but really want their Vette with stick shift.
I am sorry to repeat myself but I especially want they stick shift because I moved to an area where I won't be stuck in traffic on the LIE and drive 5 or 10 feet then stop a few minutes then move again and repeat the process. Driving a stick is an enjoyable experience but not so much when you daly drive consists of being stuck in traffic.
That is the reason why I started this thread in the first place, there may be many other people like myself that want a standard transmission but they have occasional flare ups which will occasionally make it uncomfortable to depress the clutch. I brought up the topic because some people that thought they couldn't drive a standard shift but want one may not have been aware that they may be able to order the car the way the wanted it.There always has been the option of using good old fashioned skill to listen to the engine and shift without the clutch but the computer rev matching may allow people that don't feel confident in their ability to be able to drive without using the clutch. I am sure there are people like myself that occasionally have knee problems but really want their Vette with stick shift.
I am sorry to repeat myself but I especially want they stick shift because I moved to an area where I won't be stuck in traffic on the LIE and drive 5 or 10 feet then stop a few minutes then move again and repeat the process. Driving a stick is an enjoyable experience but not so much when you daly drive consists of being stuck in traffic.
#48
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It is not hard to do but driving the car a few hundred miles before trying it would be a good idea. The driver needs to know what the engine sounds like at a given road speed and engine speed (RPM & MPH)
I find it odd that you are arguing that something is not possible when myself and others have done it.
By the way at the track people power shift by keeping the pedal floored and jamming it into gear.
I would not recommend it because people had blown up transmissions power shifting, and even if you don't blow up the trans you can sauce premature wear to the trans.
I don't want to get personal but maybe the reason you don't "get it" could be our difference in age.
I am guessing that you grew up in a different era and when you mention double clutching to someone that was born around the same time as me, people born a couple decades later start looking for another clutch pedal when you talk about double clutching.
Who knows maybe if I live long enough I may get into a disagreement with someone that will insist that it isn't possible to play music from by putting a needle into the groves that have been cut into a black vinyl disk and spinning it.
#49
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My 1962 Corvette is a 4 speed and I still enjoy driving it. I regret not ordering my 1996 CE with the LT-4 engine but back then I was living on Long Island and had to deal with LIE stop and go traffic.(the LT-4 was not available with a automatic) . So after almost 20 years I still own the 96 and still wish I could have ordered it with the 6 speed. Now that I am living in an area where the roads were almost designed for driving a 7 speed I would be crazy not to get on this time out.
EDIT
I just thought of s better answer about why someone would want a stick shift, some of us are passionate about shifting for ourselves. Someone asked a person on a Harley why they rode a Harley. The rider responded, "if I have to explain you will never understand". If I have to explain why I like driving a standard you won't understand. when I drive with stick shift I feel like I am almost part of the car it is a feeling of bonding with the car you don't get with an automatic, but maybe a paddle shifter gives you a similar feeling.
Last edited by 2 Ag R8Cs; 09-09-2013 at 11:14 PM.
#50
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I haven't visited this forum in a few years but came back because of the C-7 but many years ago on the forum I recall reading stories that may or may not be true about Warranties being voided because GM sent spies to the track and checked VIN numbers
#51
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When I still lived in Long Island I would drive about 30 to 40 miles up north where the roads were free from traffic jams.
#52
Because I love driving standard transmissions. Why should I order an automatic if I love and enjoy driving a standard transmission. You can ask the same question to someone the does not have knee problems. A lot can happen in the next 14 to 16 months. I have been getting cortisone injections in my knees which has helped and I have been considering another knee operation (maybe a knee replacement). Normally I only have problems with my knees one or two days a month or maybe every two or three months, but this past summer I spend a couple months in NY clearing out and selling a house I had. walking up and down stairs and carrying stuff put a lot of stress on my knees and required me to walk with a cane when I got back.
My 1962 Corvette is a 4 speed and I still enjoy driving it. I regret not ordering my 1996 CE with the LT-4 engine but back then I was living on Long Island and had to deal with LIE stop and go traffic.(the LT-4 was not available with a automatic) . So after almost 20 years I still own the 96 and still wish I could have ordered it with the 6 speed. Now that I am living in an area where the roads were almost designed for driving a 7 speed I would be crazy not to get on this time out.
EDIT
I just thought of s better answer about why someone would want a stick shift, some of us are passionate about shifting for ourselves. Someone asked a person on a Harley why they rode a Harley. The rider responded, "if I have to explain you will never understand". If I have to explain why I like driving a standard you won't understand. when I drive with stick shift I feel like I am almost part of the car it is a feeling of bonding with the car you don't get with an automatic, but maybe a paddle shifter gives you a similar feeling.
My 1962 Corvette is a 4 speed and I still enjoy driving it. I regret not ordering my 1996 CE with the LT-4 engine but back then I was living on Long Island and had to deal with LIE stop and go traffic.(the LT-4 was not available with a automatic) . So after almost 20 years I still own the 96 and still wish I could have ordered it with the 6 speed. Now that I am living in an area where the roads were almost designed for driving a 7 speed I would be crazy not to get on this time out.
EDIT
I just thought of s better answer about why someone would want a stick shift, some of us are passionate about shifting for ourselves. Someone asked a person on a Harley why they rode a Harley. The rider responded, "if I have to explain you will never understand". If I have to explain why I like driving a standard you won't understand. when I drive with stick shift I feel like I am almost part of the car it is a feeling of bonding with the car you don't get with an automatic, but maybe a paddle shifter gives you a similar feeling.
To be honest I don't really care what you do - if you want to get a manual and shift it without a clutch so be it. Just don't be surprised when you get denied a warranty claim a year or two in. And make sure to disclose to the subsequent buyer that you have been shifting without a clutch for the car's life - that will definitely help your resale value
#53
Le Mans Master
Michael
#54
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St. Jude Donor '06-'08-'10-'11-'12-'13 '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19
You don't need to sell me on why someone would want the manual over the auto... I wouldn't own a sports car that wasn't a manual tranny. But if I had bad knees and was worried about working the clutch I would reconsider and buy an auto.
To be honest I don't really care what you do - if you want to get a manual and shift it without a clutch so be it. Just don't be surprised when you get denied a warranty claim a year or two in. And make sure to disclose to the subsequent buyer that you have been shifting without a clutch for the car's life - that will definitely help your resale value
To be honest I don't really care what you do - if you want to get a manual and shift it without a clutch so be it. Just don't be surprised when you get denied a warranty claim a year or two in. And make sure to disclose to the subsequent buyer that you have been shifting without a clutch for the car's life - that will definitely help your resale value
#56
Drifting
Shifting gears in our '49 Chevy with vacuum-assist stick on the column could be accomplished with or without the use of the clutch pedal. I just rammed it in. I was about 12 - 13 years old at the time and without a clue, or driver license, so I rarely used the clutch.
I sincerely apologize to all those who might lose sleep tonight over my lack of shifting skills; Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
I sincerely apologize to all those who might lose sleep tonight over my lack of shifting skills; Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
#57
so theoretically after you use the clutch to start out in 1st you should be able to drive without the clutch.
...
But as long as you don't come to a complete stop you should be able to drive without using the clutch with the rev matching.
...
If the only thing that is holding you back is ordering a stick is bad knees maybe you should consider that you can drive the C-7 without using the clutch.
...
But as long as you don't come to a complete stop you should be able to drive without using the clutch with the rev matching.
...
If the only thing that is holding you back is ordering a stick is bad knees maybe you should consider that you can drive the C-7 without using the clutch.
At what speed do you need to go in 1st gear to keep a C7 from "bucking"? And if you do have to come to a complete stop then after you slip it out of gear but how do you get going again after coming to that complete stop?
I did drive a manual transmission car with no clutch because of a throwout bearing failure but had it push started with me and my date in the car and I rammed it into second to start it and then took as remote as possible route home late at night to avoid traffic and traffic control devices and when got home slipped it out of gear and turned it off. Probably not the best way to enjoy your new C7. Instead, just get really adept at paddle shifting and pretend you are a race car driver.
This thread seems totally bizarre to me
#59
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As long as your bad knees don't arise until after you start on your journey and you never have to get going again after coming to a complete stop during said journey you are good to go. Is that what you are saying?
At what speed do you need to go in 1st gear to keep a C7 from "bucking"? And if you do have to come to a complete stop then after you slip it out of gear but how do you get going again after coming to that complete stop?
I did drive a manual transmission car with no clutch because of a throwout bearing failure but had it push started with me and my date in the car and I rammed it into second to start it and then took as remote as possible route home late at night to avoid traffic and traffic control devices and when got home slipped it out of gear and turned it off. Probably not the best way to enjoy your new C7. Instead, just get really adept at paddle shifting and pretend you are a race car driver.
This thread seems totally bizarre to me
At what speed do you need to go in 1st gear to keep a C7 from "bucking"? And if you do have to come to a complete stop then after you slip it out of gear but how do you get going again after coming to that complete stop?
I did drive a manual transmission car with no clutch because of a throwout bearing failure but had it push started with me and my date in the car and I rammed it into second to start it and then took as remote as possible route home late at night to avoid traffic and traffic control devices and when got home slipped it out of gear and turned it off. Probably not the best way to enjoy your new C7. Instead, just get really adept at paddle shifting and pretend you are a race car driver.
This thread seems totally bizarre to me
#60
Read my message regarding MY EXPERIENCE doing it at 18 yrs of age. Not recommended at all in other than absolute necessity! Agreed?
It is a somewhat bizarre thread. But let me add some more info to the discussion. You questioned how to get the car going after a complete stop. In my post to another comment I mentioned that I had been able to do it. I literally cut the engine, wrangled the shifter into the first gear then started the car while it was in first gear and yes it wasn't pretty but it worked. Now, don't know if todays cars can do that with all the interlocks that are out there. IIRC on my Z I had to fully depress the clutch pedal but I'm pretty sure that depressing the clutch pedal also caused a switch to be made, or broken, don't know which, but that would allow the starter to work. So, assuming that you can depress the clutch pedal to make the switch do its thing, I would think it would be possible to hit the start button and initiate a start sequence. Never tried it on the Z but I did shift it once or twice without using the clutch just to see if it could be done, and no problem.