OT: Viper Cuts Production - Impact on ZO7 or ZR!?
10-03-2013, 11:32 AM
#41
Burning Brakes
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Another gripe of mine: Last year I wanted to order a new Viper.
I stopped by three local dealers and put my name down as interested. One dealer I stopped in twice to do so.
Number of dealers that called me back? 0. I ordered from Tomball in TX, 1400 miles away and had it delivered to my doorstep for MSRP, delivery included.
The dealer I stopped in twice ordered a $135,000 MSRP GTS. When it arrived, they slapped a $50,000 ADM on it, that was back in May.
Today it is still sitting there with $14,000 off sticker. I would have bought it for sticker if they let me order what I want.
Again, dealer greed and dealer failure are the name of the game.
And yet again, it is a shame because it really is a great car.
I stopped by three local dealers and put my name down as interested. One dealer I stopped in twice to do so.
Number of dealers that called me back? 0. I ordered from Tomball in TX, 1400 miles away and had it delivered to my doorstep for MSRP, delivery included.
The dealer I stopped in twice ordered a $135,000 MSRP GTS. When it arrived, they slapped a $50,000 ADM on it, that was back in May.
Today it is still sitting there with $14,000 off sticker. I would have bought it for sticker if they let me order what I want.
Again, dealer greed and dealer failure are the name of the game.
And yet again, it is a shame because it really is a great car.
10-03-2013, 11:49 AM
#43
Team Owner
This is a clear message to all the track guys who think the Corvette should just be this rough, stripped-down, fire-breather. They just don't sell. A very small percentage of performance car drivers want to spend that kind of money on a car they can't easily live with on a daily and/or long trip basis.
Oh yeah...it's long past time to fire Ralphy! He lost a lot of support in the Viper world by losing to the 'old' ZR1 and then whined like a baby about it. He further compounded it by bringing a completely different car 3 months later with no ZR1 (to which the Viper lost by 2 seconds) to 'test' it against.
Three cheers to Team Corvette for clearly stealing market share and promising even better with the C7 and the hi-po versions to come.
Actually, I hope they don't fire Ralphy...all the better for the Corvette!
Oh yeah...it's long past time to fire Ralphy! He lost a lot of support in the Viper world by losing to the 'old' ZR1 and then whined like a baby about it. He further compounded it by bringing a completely different car 3 months later with no ZR1 (to which the Viper lost by 2 seconds) to 'test' it against.
Three cheers to Team Corvette for clearly stealing market share and promising even better with the C7 and the hi-po versions to come.
Actually, I hope they don't fire Ralphy...all the better for the Corvette!
10-03-2013, 12:19 PM
#44
Safety Car
agreed but if so, then if i show up in my zr1, park it where they can see it, walk to the first sales guy i see, state i am here to look at the viper, then the ropes have to come off, the keys in my hands, and we can talk while sitting in the car... which did not happen
10-03-2013, 12:56 PM
#45
Safety Car
Here comes RC000E spewing his vast knowledge. Hey RC, what will the weather be here in CT around Christmas time, I'm trying to figure out when to do my outdoor decorations.
Oh and p.s.
Have you ever owned a Viper?
Oh and p.s.
Have you ever owned a Viper?
10-03-2013, 01:19 PM
#46
It goes back to my first point, the dealers saw the GTS as easy money and checked every option. You can easily make the car as expensive as you want.
You can get into a Viper for $100k, IMHO isn't bad at all - considering C7 427's were in the $90k range.
Dealer greed has created a lot of the issue, IMHO.
You can get into a Viper for $100k, IMHO isn't bad at all - considering C7 427's were in the $90k range.
Dealer greed has created a lot of the issue, IMHO.
10-03-2013, 01:20 PM
#47
Le Mans Master
The problem is that SRT is trying to do too many things with the Viper. They are trying to appeal to a different customer base while still try to make the current customers happy. I love the Viper but lets be real here. SRT has messed up since day 1. Every comparison or review I've seen or read has been less then complimenting. And thats putting it nicely. The Viper needs refinement. Lots of it. I dont care that the old guys want a "raw" Viper. That doesnt sell. Those days are over. In todays sports/super car market, people are looking refinement. They need to rethink and reconfigure that chassis, lower the price a lot. The Viper can survive and do well, but SRT has to stop being so hard headed and thinking people are looking to drop $100K+ for a raw machine that isnt sorted out.
10-03-2013, 01:22 PM
#48
Burning Brakes
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The base price is $99k MSRP. You can find them http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...2013+viper+srt
You can get them less than that, if you feel like haggling. Local dealer is offering $14k off MSRP, so there are deals to be had.
Total mine was $111 out the door with tags, tax, etc. I don't find it to be "bad" considering.
You can get them less than that, if you feel like haggling. Local dealer is offering $14k off MSRP, so there are deals to be had.
Total mine was $111 out the door with tags, tax, etc. I don't find it to be "bad" considering.
10-03-2013, 01:29 PM
#50
Safety Car
The problem is that SRT is trying to do too many things with the Viper. They are trying to appeal to a different customer base while still try to make the current customers happy. I love the Viper but lets be real here. SRT has messed up since day 1. Every comparison or review I've seen or read has been less then complimenting. And thats putting it nicely. The Viper needs refinement. Lots of it. I dont care that the old guys want a "raw" Viper. That doesnt sell. Those days are over. In todays sports/super car market, people are looking refinement. They need to rethink and reconfigure that chassis, lower the price a lot. The Viper can survive and do well, but SRT has to stop being so hard headed and thinking people are looking to drop $100K+ for a raw machine that isnt sorted out.
The car is great... it just takes more skill to drive than a lower powered Corvette. The main issue is price point in this crap economy.
10-03-2013, 01:32 PM
#51
Le Mans Master
I don't disagree, but what makes you think the Gen-V is raw and not sorted out? It has a beautiful interior with Ferrari seats! It's got ABS and stability control etc. etc.
The car is great... it just takes more skill to drive than a lower powered Corvette. The main issue is price point in this crap economy.
The car is great... it just takes more skill to drive than a lower powered Corvette. The main issue is price point in this crap economy.
10-03-2013, 01:41 PM
#52
Burning Brakes
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Take it from people who own the car, the reviews are off base, IMHO. MT exists to get eyeballs on pages. Controversy sells.
Reviewers were complaining that the sills get too hot. That the engine is too loud. It is a side piped V10, go cry elsewhere.
SRT mishandled MT and the reviews, but I don't agree with what most of what was written about the car. Their biggest mistake was letting tests on preprod cars happen.
10-03-2013, 01:47 PM
#53
Le Mans Master
The other problem is STR burned loyal Viper owners that put deposits on cars long before production started by allocating cars to dealers versus filling committed orders.
I was seriously considering buying one until I read that on the Viper forum.
Then it got beat by the ZR-1, then the quality issues surfaced, and of course there is the price...
Interestingly, they bash Corvettes for being 'a dime a dozen', which I find arrogant & childish.
I guess now Vipers will be even more 'exclusive'.
I was seriously considering buying one until I read that on the Viper forum.
Then it got beat by the ZR-1, then the quality issues surfaced, and of course there is the price...
Interestingly, they bash Corvettes for being 'a dime a dozen', which I find arrogant & childish.
I guess now Vipers will be even more 'exclusive'.
10-03-2013, 01:52 PM
#54
Interesting conversation and I knew I would draw flack for the Dart comment so let me elaborate. In the Viper introduction Ralph explicitly commented that the gauge cluster and infortainment system were takes directly from the Dart as that was the most advanced system Chrysler / Fiat had at their disposal. To add to my comment, I think the Dart has one of the best interiors of any non-luxury car, regardless of country of origin.
To another question, Yes, I own a current SRT, a 2012 Jeep SRT8. Yes, the interior is very nice. Is it better than the new C7, I don't think so but that's a completely subjective observation.
So, to the point of pricing and hence lack of sales. That's where the Viper missed the mark and even without the stupidity of the dealers loading them up with options to make them $135,000 cars they cannot compete in the world stage with cars in the same price bracket. Go out and drive AMG's, Audi's, BMW's and Porsche's in the same price range and then tell me the Viper looks and feels like an equivalent or superior product. If you can then you are probably one of the few hundred who own one. If you can't then you are part of the thousands of sports car fans who don't.
If I'm looking to spend $135,000 on a sports car this is the one that will be in my driveway.
Oh, and who really gives a damn what it does on the track, it's what it does to your soul that matters.
To another question, Yes, I own a current SRT, a 2012 Jeep SRT8. Yes, the interior is very nice. Is it better than the new C7, I don't think so but that's a completely subjective observation.
So, to the point of pricing and hence lack of sales. That's where the Viper missed the mark and even without the stupidity of the dealers loading them up with options to make them $135,000 cars they cannot compete in the world stage with cars in the same price bracket. Go out and drive AMG's, Audi's, BMW's and Porsche's in the same price range and then tell me the Viper looks and feels like an equivalent or superior product. If you can then you are probably one of the few hundred who own one. If you can't then you are part of the thousands of sports car fans who don't.
If I'm looking to spend $135,000 on a sports car this is the one that will be in my driveway.
Oh, and who really gives a damn what it does on the track, it's what it does to your soul that matters.
10-03-2013, 01:53 PM
#55
Safety Car
harlold I've owned seven and everything you state is true.
I don't know that SRT is to blame for the MT debacle, how do we know what the story was as for getting both cars there on that day. The fact that a month or two later they brought a car to the table that was better says it all. Can you imagine the TA w/out Corsas or steel brakes, I'm thinking two more seconds on Laguna.
It's a mans car, if someone can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen. LOL
I don't know that SRT is to blame for the MT debacle, how do we know what the story was as for getting both cars there on that day. The fact that a month or two later they brought a car to the table that was better says it all. Can you imagine the TA w/out Corsas or steel brakes, I'm thinking two more seconds on Laguna.
It's a mans car, if someone can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen. LOL
10-03-2013, 02:27 PM
#58
Race Director
Dealers saw the GTS as "easy money" and checked every option. So, instead of $100-110 cars sitting on lots, you have lots filled with $140k cars. Now, some might say "oh it is only $30-40k more" - but that is still a good chunk of change. Just because you can swing $100k doesn't mean you can swing $140k.
And comparisons to the "Dart" interior are off base. It shows you are absolutely clueless.
In all, the car is unbelievable. I love it. I drive it daily everywhere. It is refined, yet still raw.
If dealers got asses in seats to test the car, I think they would move. We shall see. I hope the Viper stays around - and so should everyone on this forum. Without it, the ZR1 has no real competition to improve against.
And comparisons to the "Dart" interior are off base. It shows you are absolutely clueless.
In all, the car is unbelievable. I love it. I drive it daily everywhere. It is refined, yet still raw.
If dealers got asses in seats to test the car, I think they would move. We shall see. I hope the Viper stays around - and so should everyone on this forum. Without it, the ZR1 has no real competition to improve against.
But the car itself is fantastic. It goes like stink, is totally docile at normal speeds, and the interior materials and ergonomics are oustanding. Anyone claiming otherwise or bashing this car is making it up as they go along and has not gotten anywhere near one.
There is the matter of the ZR1 comparo, but frankly, after driving the car and spending time with it - I really don't care. The only thing stopping me right now is the lack of un-loaded cars, and the fact that you cannot do a targa with this car. SO I'll be holding out for the Hi-po Vette in the hope that is now a targa. If not, I'll probably get the Viper based on my driving experience. It's really a fantastic car.
10-03-2013, 02:39 PM
#59
Melting Slicks
Interesting conversation and I knew I would draw flack for the Dart comment so let me elaborate. In the Viper introduction Ralph explicitly commented that the gauge cluster and infortainment system were takes directly from the Dart as that was the most advanced system Chrysler / Fiat had at their disposal. To add to my comment, I think the Dart has one of the best interiors of any non-luxury car, regardless of country of origin.
To another question, Yes, I own a current SRT, a 2012 Jeep SRT8. Yes, the interior is very nice. Is it better than the new C7, I don't think so but that's a completely subjective observation.
So, to the point of pricing and hence lack of sales. That's where the Viper missed the mark and even without the stupidity of the dealers loading them up with options to make them $135,000 cars they cannot compete in the world stage with cars in the same price bracket. Go out and drive AMG's, Audi's, BMW's and Porsche's in the same price range and then tell me the Viper looks and feels like an equivalent or superior product. If you can then you are probably one of the few hundred who own one. If you can't then you are part of the thousands of sports car fans who don't.
If I'm looking to spend $135,000 on a sports car this is the one that will be in my driveway.
Oh, and who really gives a damn what it does on the track, it's what it does to your soul that matters.
To another question, Yes, I own a current SRT, a 2012 Jeep SRT8. Yes, the interior is very nice. Is it better than the new C7, I don't think so but that's a completely subjective observation.
So, to the point of pricing and hence lack of sales. That's where the Viper missed the mark and even without the stupidity of the dealers loading them up with options to make them $135,000 cars they cannot compete in the world stage with cars in the same price bracket. Go out and drive AMG's, Audi's, BMW's and Porsche's in the same price range and then tell me the Viper looks and feels like an equivalent or superior product. If you can then you are probably one of the few hundred who own one. If you can't then you are part of the thousands of sports car fans who don't.
If I'm looking to spend $135,000 on a sports car this is the one that will be in my driveway.
Oh, and who really gives a damn what it does on the track, it's what it does to your soul that matters.
10-03-2013, 03:19 PM
#60
What year Keith? From 2008-2010 from what I remember they are the same car, 600 ponies in either the vert or the coupe. If it's an ACR you are looking at they made some changes in 2010, mostly aero stuff though.
I'd be curious to here what you're after, good luck and don't listen to the rumors of a Vipers driveability, you just thave to respect them and you'll be rewarded 10 fold.
I'd be curious to here what you're after, good luck and don't listen to the rumors of a Vipers driveability, you just thave to respect them and you'll be rewarded 10 fold.
Thanks Dan!!..it's a 2010 coup blue w silver stripes and it's not the ACR I do prefer it without the aero pkg...Oh I don't listen to any bad mouthing about any car I enjoy my AC Cobra in a way that the ZR1 can't provide me and I enjoy my ZR1 in a way that the Cobra can't provide me and had a GT 500 and enjoyed it!!.. like you I'm a car guy not product loyal at all..If the deal goes through I will enjoy the Viper in it's own way..like I say I just don't understand this I own this car and all others suck!! if there was only Vette's out there driving to me would be knid of boring...
