DerStig

I have been regularly reading this forum now for some time. I am not posting very actively, but I check it at least once a day. I'm also an active poster in other forums for BMWs (mainly Ms), so before you read what I'm about to say, please do consider I may have a different perspective to things.

I have never considered a corvette or any other american car seriously in my life until C7. Lack of interior quality, build quality issues, and mainly reliability always kept me away. This time though, I thought (and still do think) things changed, that GM also changed. So I signed up for this forum (before I didn't even know about this forum because I never cared about Corvette) and started reading and learning about the car, maintenance, what oil you use, how does the navigation work, and so on.

Let's talk about my concerns regarding reliability.

I am tired of seeing so much negativity and it worries me. What I mean by that is, every week, there is a new thread about an engine blow up or some warranty issue (at a catastrophic level). I did some research and it looks like the previous Z06 was also very known for its valve issues (not sure what it was in detail, but you guys know what I'm talking about). It looks like, or let me rephrase, it appears to the outside world that GM rebranded its favorite super sports car, made it look nicer and aggressive, patched up the interior and added bunch of cool features, but the execution was not properly done.

I have never seen a car company do so many recalls, and this latest C7 recall about airbags and hand brake is just the icing on the cake. These are such core issues that it makes you wonder, how do they QA these cars?

There are just way too many teething issues here and there, things that I read in this forum really worries me. Like how the traffic information in the navigation is from some 3rd party which for example I found out the other day does not cover Garden State Parkway and I-95 in NJ, but it covers I-80. Did I hear that right? Have you guys seen the navigation/traffic information system in the BMWs? It is so accurate that, it will give you google like traffic view even in the most rural area or in the most tiniest and the god forsaken road in the middle of nowhere in some city. It gives you green/yellow/red colors and it is so accurate, so accurate, you'd think that BMW hired people who drive around and update this data in real time.

And what's with these engines blowing up, and you have to change the oil before you visit the race track because metal particles make their way into the rods and the engine blows a rod? I am on to my 4th M car now and 5th BMW overall, years of BMW and M ownership, and all of this sounds a little concerning to me. I never had to change my oil or put specific oil for tracking. Heck, I never had any issues with any of my cars.

I'll in fact be specific, I was the 6th person to take delivery of the new F80 M3 in the U.S., my car is one of the first 100 M3s to be produced in Germany. I now have close to 4000 miles on it, and haven't had a single issue with it. You can read the BMW forums, and this car is far more complicated than C7 in so many ways, and you can hardly see any complaints.

Now all of this was for reliability. Next talk about brand quality.

There were engine blow ups I read about the previous E92 M3 which has the V8. Rod bearing issues and so on. Then there were many other issues with many other BMWs, electrical, suspension, wheel bearing, brakes, etc. All cars have issues right? The problem is, the treatment you get in BMW is so different than what I read here, it scares me to buy a Corvette. Corvette might be such a great car, but at the end of the day, there is no separate "Corvette Service" that you deal with, you go to the Chevy dealer who also services other GM cars. The way people talk about the treatment they get here, like how the dealership took 6 weeks to fix their car and how they had to call up the GM customer service and someone from India answered and took 72 hours to assign a case number, it sounds horrible. This is not how BMW works, ever. You have issues like this, you are given a resolution within a matter of weeks which is almost always to your satisfaction. BMW is so different in that regard that I'm scared of pulling the trigger with that Z06.

Now, do I have a choice? No. The other options to the Z06 are Porsche Turbo or some other 200-250k car, which I cannot afford. So it's either Z06 or nothing. But I'm just curious that's all. To me this sounds like Apple vs Samsung. I have had an iPhone since 2007 and always got the latest every release, except once I bought the Samsung's Galaxy. There was so much hype about it, "oh it has this widget and it has this much control and you can root it", well guess what, it has so much computing power, so much functionality, but again, BAD EXECUTION, as a phone, it's terrible! It's plastic exterior looks cheap, it's software is buggy, and it's not a fluid phone overall, it's very glitchy. I'm scared my Z06 adventure will turn out to be the same way.

Again, I am not here to bash C7, I am trying to buy into the brand and plan to have my first american car, hopefully a Z06, next year. So please help me out and work with me on my concerns.

Glen e

exactly how are we supposed to help you out?...I love these long dissertations...it will degenerate with bashers, supporters and the in-betweens ..AND NOTHING WILL CHANGE...We read just like you do...do some more reading, make a decision, and get on with it....glad you like your BMW, I spent 24 years with them as a factory guy, great company and products ( and great pension...LOL)

DerStig

You can tell me:

- I have had my Z06 for 5 years and put 150,000 miles and only spent $2000 on maintenance and repairs and its very reliable.

Or

- I had it for 5000 miles and the engine blew up.

You can also tell me:

- The chevy service and dealership is great, you are treated differently when you have a 80k Z06 and the warranty/customer service is really not like what you hear here

Or

- The chevy is a cheap car, if it's too good to be true, then it probably is. You are getting a Ferrari 458 performance for 1/4 price and this is the catch, the service is terrible, the customer service sucks, so you have to live with it.

Glen e

again, no one needs to tell you that, there is 40,000 posts here with all three of those answers...forums should just be one part of a decision making process, go interview a few service managers, a few car club outings and the mag tests...and then you still won't have the holy grail of answers....

drove BMW's all my life, still get a free one in my retirement, still love them, but the vette to me is a great car - just different....to me the two don't compete (except for your $) My vette has no problems whatsoever in 7000 miles...but it's a DD, not a track vehicle..

A Solid Rock

Do you have people taking pictures of you in your car everyday? Do you have people stopping to tell you how awesome your car is everyday? Do you have people rolling down their windows to tell you how great your car is? Do you have girls rolling up behind you to see what car you are driving to then whip out their camera and take a picture of you? Do you have a desire to drive a powerful car that provides not only attention, but performance such as 30 miles per gallon with 460 hp? Do you have people coming to see your car while you are pumping gas? Do you have people asking if they can take a picture of the car? Do all these things happen while driving a BMW?

Just wondering, LOL

DerStig

I actually have had ALL of those things happen to me for all my M3s and M5s all of these years. And my M3 happens to make just that much power and that kind of mileage.

That being said, I am not in the market for C7, but Z06. I want it as a weekend toy car, not a dd. My DD will stay as M3, no car in the world can beat it in terms of utility, performance, price, and looks all together.

My post was not about comparing my M3 to the C7 stingray. Maybe I wasnt clear. I want to keep my M3 AND get the Z06.

Glenmcp

Many car brands would show some problems if they were scrutinized like Vettes are on the CF. You have to take some of this with a grain of salt. I will have had my C7 for a year on 10/1. I have had no problems.

Woodson

Sorry, TLDR, but if your post says that you're worried about GM reliability versus BMW, I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

I'm coming out of an E46 M3, and while I loved it and it was not repair-prone, I suffered the VANOS failure which if you read the M3 forums it was not a matter of if, but when. $5k hit and that was with a discount. I seem to recall that the early ones also had catastrophic failures as a result of the prescribed oil not having high enough viscosity.

BMW's have issues just like every other make, GM included.

lbzraptor

To some owning a Corvette is a prestige thing and some are blamed with going through a midlife crisis by owning one. Then there are the ones that actually drive them and want the power that they deliver for less money compared to other sports cars. I have close to 60k on my Z06 without any problems other than drone from the exhaust. Heads, cam, headers and exhaust were done at around 45k. I average 19.5 mpg with some spirited driving and as high as 25.6mpg on an interstate drive at 70mph or more. Any car can have problems and any dealership can be hard to get along with. However with the dealership I think most of the problems arise from the customer becoming irate and demanding right off the bat instead of trying to work with the dealer for a solution. The reason you see so much negativity on these forums is because some have an agenda and stir the pot so to speak and then again hardly anybody posts unless they are having a problem with their car as that is what the forum is for. People trying to understand and solve the problems that arise with ownership. What I am trying to say is if you want it and can afford it then get a Z06. It gets the adrenaline flowing as it exudes raw power more so than a BMW. You can feel when a car wants to run and the Z06 begs to run.

Zymurgy

Let's put some data behind this, not just hysteria:

Snorman

LMAO...BMW's recall rate is 38% higher than GM's.

S.

bigblock427

I am on my fifth Vette over the last 17-1/2 years. All of my Vettes have been daily drivers. I have driven over 225,000 miles with my Vettes. Nothing really more than oil changes and tires. I have had great mechanical history out of my Vettes and the level of service I get at my dealership is outstanding.

sexmobile

We all know it's a great car if you're not going to track it or need the warranty. They all are. The question is what's your experience at the extremes?

I've seen about 8-10 C7s at the tracks here in FL. Assume the same for all 50 states and assume I undercount by 1/4? 2000 vettes being tracked nationwide? Is that a more valid frame of reference than the garage queens, daily drivers, and weekend cruisers, I dunno...

The point is it doesn't matter what conservative users have to say.

so BMW guy, how much have you tracked those Ms, and how much of the 4000 miles on the new M has been on the track? Do you have anything that BMW contested, etc,??

I'm really interested in these threads. I'm in the market for something new (dealer complains that I track my Shelby ). I'm looking at 911, M3 or vette.

DerStig

Where are you getting your data from? Last time BMW did a recall was many years ago for the 335 HPFP issue. This number you posted : BMW of North America: 5.1 million recalled/5.7 million sold; 0.90 recall rate.
is laughable at most.

You are comparing GM to Ford and Toyota. I don't care about those low brands. Compare it to BMW and Mercedes. Compare it to Porsche. Yes Porsche did have a huge screw up too recently with their new car, but they handled it completely differently. People getting updates from executives in PCNA directly. Dealing with GM, to me, seems like buying food from Walmart. Giant American corporation with typical layered management and low pay.

The word I'm looking for is "culture". I think there is a big difference between GM's culture and say what you can find in Audi or BMW.

M cars get their transmission from Getrag, DCT, it's a 10k transmission and you won't find it in any other car other than Ms. Getrag is the company that makes Ferrari and F1 transmissions. GM on the other hand uses the same transmission they use in Z06 in all of their other cars.

I wish Corvette was a separate brand on its own which had its own dealerships, service, and technicians. It just makes me so uneasy to buy an $80-90k Chevy knowing I have nowhere else to go but to a Chevy dealership (and where I live in NY, they are just horrifying).

DerStig

I have had E9X M3s, an F10 M5, and F80 M3. I have also had other regular BMWs. They never broke down and I drive the **** out of them, I mean it. I don't go to track very often, but I do go to autocross regularly

The brakes on my M3 is the same size of regular steel brakes on the new Z06. Did you know this? The carbon ceramic brakes on the M3, is the same size of the carbon ceramics on the Z06. I can beat on my brakes, time after time, for 1.5 hours in autocross, no brake fade, no fluid change, no pad change, street pads, it goes on and on.

I read the whole manual section about tracking the corvettes, so many things that they ask you to do. Change this, change that, apparently even the alignment I have to change. I never have to do this in any of the BMWs I have owned. I go to my event, wear my helmet, check my tire pressure and make sure I am not low on oil, and I'm good to go. Time after time, nothing ever breaks.

This thread is turning into M3 vs C7, but that's not what it's about. I am not looking into replace my M3. I am looking into buying a track/weekend toy right next to it. I already drove the C7 and I quite liked how it sounded and all, but I wouldn't give up my M3 ever for it. You have to understand, I can carry 2 kids, wife, stroller, groceries with this car, drop them off at home, then with the press of a button, I can track the crap out of my car. You cannot do that with the C7. That's why these M3s are so famous and the best on the road for the versatility they offer.

Z06 however, is a super car category. That's something else and that's what I want. I just don't want it to turn into my little, and short, Samsung Galaxy adventure that's all.

jsdanehy

Yup all those things happening to me almost every time I go for a ride.

BMW ? Not exactly a eye opener in the looks category.

All of us have different tastes.

I have owned Corvettes for 11 years. I was there when the first one was introduced to the public.

Free country here. Buy and drive what you want.

Fact is the QUALITY is up there. I guess with others they see what they want to see. Why they hang around and bash you sure know as well as I do. Bashing is a sport.

Americans love to complain. Yes I am American and have been for 77 years. A Corvette fan too. For those that are not fans of the Vette go elsewhere. Why hang here ?

Snorman

http://blog.caranddriver.com/recall-...-who-is-worst/

Let's be honest...you're not really here under the pretense of buying a Z06. You're here simply to tell Corvette owners how great your BMW is.
You don't really expect people here to bend over backwards to convince you that the C7 Z06 is going to be a good car, do you?
S.

Glen e

absolutely....such a waste of time....

dvilin

kmil579

I bought a 2003 Dodge Ram 1500 brand new with 6 miles. I heard many people say that I would be replacing a transmission at 75,000 miles. It was a work truck and I pulled many an overloaded trailer with it. I was driving up to South Carolina from South Florida on a regular basis back in 2004-05 picking up materials due to the hurricanes in Florida. I sold the truck to my father in law in November of 2013 after I purchased a 2013 Ram 1500 Laramie. I had 305,000 miles on the original transmission and engine. He is still driving it with no problem. Had I listened to all the naysayers, I might not have bought the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned. Remember that YMMV.