Maybe Next-Gen Corvette Should Be a Separate Nameplate
08-03-2015, 10:15 PM
#21
While I agree, I also like not having to bend over every time I take the car in for service (which is why I do as much service as possible in my home garage). I fear that no longer having the Corvette under the Chevy nameplate would come along with a significant increase in the Corvette Tax. To me, that's the appeal of the Corvette. It looks great and performs great, but at the end of the day, it's still a Chevy, which means an average guy like me can afford to own and maintain one. If I had to pay Porsche prices for parts and service for my Vette, I'd probably own something else.
A more reasonable comparison is Audi. Audi dealerships are world class, but their maintenance prices are reasonable. My wife for example purchased a 2015 Audi S8, and she was able to purchase Audi Care for $800 after she received a discount coupon from Audi. This program includes all scheduled maintenance for four years \ 50K miles, a late model Audi for all scheduled service, and an exterior wash and interior vacuum.
08-03-2015, 10:25 PM
#22
Aren't we only talking about an average of less than 40K cars a year nationwide? How could a separate company keep the same level of service/pricing with such a low volume? I suspect there would be many complaints of not being able to get service within a reasonable distance for a reasonable price. Costs would have to increase. What's the point?
08-03-2015, 10:32 PM
#23
I will agree that the Corvette needs to become its own nameplate for one reason alone: the dealer network. With the exception of some dealers that know how to serve luxury-level customers (and are most likely the most successful Corvette dealerships because of it), the standard Chevy dealership experience is not conducive to stealing people away from Porsche, Jaguar, Aston, Ferrari, etc.
Walking into a Porsche dealership and walking into a Chevrolet dealership and you have two completely different experiences. Heck, it's the same thing with any sports car or luxury marque that I mentioned. The people are just trained up to a higher level.
Now, absolutely there are exceptions - and they are undoubtedly the dealers that move 20+ Vettes a month. I had an excellent experience at Stasek Chevrolet and I'm sure you get the same kind of thing at Kerbeck, etc.
BUT, if you don't believe me, walk into an average BMW/Merc/Jag/Land Rover/Porsche dealership. Then walk into an average Ford/Chevy/Toyota dealership. You'll see a difference in how you're greeted, the quality of the showroom, the amenities, everything.
Covettes go for big boy money. They should treat their customers like the big boys, too. If we give Corvette its own dealer network, it creates that exclusivity, it requires that same level of customer service, so it's one and the same with Porsche, so those customers who are used to it there can walk into a 'Corvette' dealer and feel at home, love the car, be amazed at the inexpensive price, and get more Vettes on the road.
Walking into a Porsche dealership and walking into a Chevrolet dealership and you have two completely different experiences. Heck, it's the same thing with any sports car or luxury marque that I mentioned. The people are just trained up to a higher level.
Now, absolutely there are exceptions - and they are undoubtedly the dealers that move 20+ Vettes a month. I had an excellent experience at Stasek Chevrolet and I'm sure you get the same kind of thing at Kerbeck, etc.
BUT, if you don't believe me, walk into an average BMW/Merc/Jag/Land Rover/Porsche dealership. Then walk into an average Ford/Chevy/Toyota dealership. You'll see a difference in how you're greeted, the quality of the showroom, the amenities, everything.
Covettes go for big boy money. They should treat their customers like the big boys, too. If we give Corvette its own dealer network, it creates that exclusivity, it requires that same level of customer service, so it's one and the same with Porsche, so those customers who are used to it there can walk into a 'Corvette' dealer and feel at home, love the car, be amazed at the inexpensive price, and get more Vettes on the road.
08-03-2015, 10:34 PM
#24
Unfortunately the Chevy dealer near me is mediocre at best. The sales people that I talked to were pleasant, but they knew virtually nothing about the Corvette, probably because they sell so few.
Back in the early 90s both Toyota and Nissan invested hundreds of millions of dollars creating a nationwide network of dealerships for Lexus and Infiniti. They both felt it was essential to make this investment, since the concern was that people would not want to buy and have their luxury cars serviced at lowly Toyota or Nissan dealerships.
I for one would have no problem driving an extra 30 - 40 miles to visit a world class Corvette dealership with SAs who were knowledgeable about the products they were selling.
Back in the early 90s both Toyota and Nissan invested hundreds of millions of dollars creating a nationwide network of dealerships for Lexus and Infiniti. They both felt it was essential to make this investment, since the concern was that people would not want to buy and have their luxury cars serviced at lowly Toyota or Nissan dealerships.
I for one would have no problem driving an extra 30 - 40 miles to visit a world class Corvette dealership with SAs who were knowledgeable about the products they were selling.
Last edited by sly1; 08-03-2015 at 10:39 PM.
08-04-2015, 08:30 AM
#25
Drifting
I will agree that the Corvette needs to become its own nameplate for one reason alone: the dealer network. With the exception of some dealers that know how to serve luxury-level customers (and are most likely the most successful Corvette dealerships because of it), the standard Chevy dealership experience is not conducive to stealing people away from Porsche, Jaguar, Aston, Ferrari, etc.
Walking into a Porsche dealership and walking into a Chevrolet dealership and you have two completely different experiences. Heck, it's the same thing with any sports car or luxury marque that I mentioned. The people are just trained up to a higher level.
Now, absolutely there are exceptions - and they are undoubtedly the dealers that move 20+ Vettes a month. I had an excellent experience at Stasek Chevrolet and I'm sure you get the same kind of thing at Kerbeck, etc.
BUT, if you don't believe me, walk into an average BMW/Merc/Jag/Land Rover/Porsche dealership. Then walk into an average Ford/Chevy/Toyota dealership. You'll see a difference in how you're greeted, the quality of the showroom, the amenities, everything.
Covettes go for big boy money. They should treat their customers like the big boys, too. If we give Corvette its own dealer network, it creates that exclusivity, it requires that same level of customer service, so it's one and the same with Porsche, so those customers who are used to it there can walk into a 'Corvette' dealer and feel at home, love the car, be amazed at the inexpensive price, and get more Vettes on the road.
Walking into a Porsche dealership and walking into a Chevrolet dealership and you have two completely different experiences. Heck, it's the same thing with any sports car or luxury marque that I mentioned. The people are just trained up to a higher level.
Now, absolutely there are exceptions - and they are undoubtedly the dealers that move 20+ Vettes a month. I had an excellent experience at Stasek Chevrolet and I'm sure you get the same kind of thing at Kerbeck, etc.
BUT, if you don't believe me, walk into an average BMW/Merc/Jag/Land Rover/Porsche dealership. Then walk into an average Ford/Chevy/Toyota dealership. You'll see a difference in how you're greeted, the quality of the showroom, the amenities, everything.
Covettes go for big boy money. They should treat their customers like the big boys, too. If we give Corvette its own dealer network, it creates that exclusivity, it requires that same level of customer service, so it's one and the same with Porsche, so those customers who are used to it there can walk into a 'Corvette' dealer and feel at home, love the car, be amazed at the inexpensive price, and get more Vettes on the road.
GM shuttered several brands at the end of the 90s-Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Hummer and Saturn. They aren't about to start another.
08-04-2015, 08:32 AM
#26
Drifting
I think it is going quite well for Ram, Don't you? I guess it all depends on whether or not the Corvette nameplate will be able to churn out multiple hit vehicles (or more importantly is this the direction the GM brass want to go). Having a separate dealership for one car with 2 or 3 variations would make about as much sense as Ram with only the 1500, 2500, and 3500. Now if you make it Ram with the Dakota, sprinter(promaster), and commercial line of vehicles, you have a decent lineup.
08-04-2015, 08:33 AM
#27
Drifting
Its a meaningless discussion.
Where I live there are NO separate RAM dealerships. No separate Cadillac dealers etc. Like my local dealership is a Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/RAM dealer. Across the street is a Chevrolet-Cadillac dealer (i dont think we have ANY dealers that are just Cadillac) and in the next town over is a GMC-Buick dealer and a Ford-Lincoln dealer.
Whats the point?
Where I live there are NO separate RAM dealerships. No separate Cadillac dealers etc. Like my local dealership is a Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/RAM dealer. Across the street is a Chevrolet-Cadillac dealer (i dont think we have ANY dealers that are just Cadillac) and in the next town over is a GMC-Buick dealer and a Ford-Lincoln dealer.
Whats the point?
08-04-2015, 08:36 AM
#28
Drifting
Separating Ram from the rest of Chrysler was a marketing move as much as it was a survival move. Chrysler spun off the Ram trucks because they thought the entire company might go under and wanted something profitable to sell.
08-04-2015, 08:50 AM
#29
Drifting
Unfortunately the Chevy dealer near me is mediocre at best. The sales people that I talked to were pleasant, but they knew virtually nothing about the Corvette, probably because they sell so few.
Back in the early 90s both Toyota and Nissan invested hundreds of millions of dollars creating a nationwide network of dealerships for Lexus and Infiniti. They both felt it was essential to make this investment, since the concern was that people would not want to buy and have their luxury cars serviced at lowly Toyota or Nissan dealerships.
I for one would have no problem driving an extra 30 - 40 miles to visit a world class Corvette dealership with SAs who were knowledgeable about the products they were selling.
Back in the early 90s both Toyota and Nissan invested hundreds of millions of dollars creating a nationwide network of dealerships for Lexus and Infiniti. They both felt it was essential to make this investment, since the concern was that people would not want to buy and have their luxury cars serviced at lowly Toyota or Nissan dealerships.
I for one would have no problem driving an extra 30 - 40 miles to visit a world class Corvette dealership with SAs who were knowledgeable about the products they were selling.
08-04-2015, 09:04 AM
#30
Team Owner
Be careful what you ask for. Dealers will become more exclusive meaning prices will likely go up, and many folks will have to travel further to find one. This has been discussed many times. The model has worked for 60 years. I don't see what's broke. No system is perfect, but selling 35,000 two seat sports cars a year is quite a feat.
08-04-2015, 09:10 AM
#31
Team Owner
Unfortunately the Chevy dealer near me is mediocre at best. The sales people that I talked to were pleasant, but they knew virtually nothing about the Corvette, probably because they sell so few.
Back in the early 90s both Toyota and Nissan invested hundreds of millions of dollars creating a nationwide network of dealerships for Lexus and Infiniti. They both felt it was essential to make this investment, since the concern was that people would not want to buy and have their luxury cars serviced at lowly Toyota or Nissan dealerships.
I for one would have no problem driving an extra 30 - 40 miles to visit a world class Corvette dealership with SAs who were knowledgeable about the products they were selling.
Back in the early 90s both Toyota and Nissan invested hundreds of millions of dollars creating a nationwide network of dealerships for Lexus and Infiniti. They both felt it was essential to make this investment, since the concern was that people would not want to buy and have their luxury cars serviced at lowly Toyota or Nissan dealerships.
I for one would have no problem driving an extra 30 - 40 miles to visit a world class Corvette dealership with SAs who were knowledgeable about the products they were selling.
08-04-2015, 09:21 AM
#32
CF Senior Member
This was the direction they were headed with the XLR and XLR-V but then the GM bankruptcy intervened and that whole program came to a screaming halt.
08-04-2015, 10:40 AM
#34
Burning Brakes
Look closely on the C7 - you don't see Chevrolet badged anywhere except a small bowtie in the Corvette flag. It's as if they are trying to keep Corvette as a unique brand, even though you buy one at the Chevrolet dealer. Also, not every dealer can sell the C7 - remember there were only ~900 dealers nationwide allowed to see C7's based on previous sales.
Cadillac spun off and now is HQ'ed in New York City. Would not surprise me to see something similar with Corvette, although operating leverage they currently receive as part of the GM/Chevrolet family could be impacted.
If Corvette is to remain with Chevrolet, then if there ever is a Zora it would be better served by marketing it as a Cadillac, given its estimated $150k price tag. People will have a difficult time spending $150k for a Chevy, not to mention all the poor dealer experiences mentioned in this and other threads. Cadillac is GM's premier brand, and the Zora would make a perfect halo car.
Cadillac spun off and now is HQ'ed in New York City. Would not surprise me to see something similar with Corvette, although operating leverage they currently receive as part of the GM/Chevrolet family could be impacted.
If Corvette is to remain with Chevrolet, then if there ever is a Zora it would be better served by marketing it as a Cadillac, given its estimated $150k price tag. People will have a difficult time spending $150k for a Chevy, not to mention all the poor dealer experiences mentioned in this and other threads. Cadillac is GM's premier brand, and the Zora would make a perfect halo car.
08-04-2015, 10:55 AM
#35
Team Owner
I agree. Cadillac has become the performance division for GM and they certainly have a much better dealer network compared with Chevy.
This was the direction they were headed with the XLR and XLR-V but then the GM bankruptcy intervened and that whole program came to a screaming halt.
This was the direction they were headed with the XLR and XLR-V but then the GM bankruptcy intervened and that whole program came to a screaming halt.
But I suppose sitting in the service waiting area with a bunch of blue haired senior citizens would be okay
08-04-2015, 11:07 AM
#36
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Having worked at Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and GMC stores makes me more than a little leary of this idea. It takes a lot of money to support a standalone brand. If bean counters are in control the brand could end up on the chopping block.
08-04-2015, 11:17 AM
#37
Pro
Aren't we only talking about an average of less than 40K cars a year nationwide? How could a separate company keep the same level of service/pricing with such a low volume? I suspect there would be many complaints of not being able to get service within a reasonable distance for a reasonable price. Costs would have to increase. What's the point?
http://press.porsche.com/news/release.php?id=837
Note that by their own numbers they sold just over 42,000 vehicles so this is actually a very good comparison because the total Porsche North America sales are very similar to the number of C7 Corvettes sold (more I why I'm comparing to C7 and not 2013 C6 when Porsche numbers are for 2013 later) . Another thing to note though about Porsche numbers is that the combined sales of all Boxster, Cayman and 911 variants about equaled the totals for Cayenne SUV. So even Porsche would be in big trouble if its sports cars were its only models.
Now lets look at what was happening with C6 Corvettes 2008 - 2013. See sales numbers in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette
Sales dropped from 35K in 2008 to 17K in 2009 and bottomed out at 11,647 in 2012. This about corresponds with the economic down turn, just as Porsche was reporting record sales. What was happening? The Porsche model is to build an ultra exclusive product at high prices at the expense of large volumes. The ultra exclusive aspect means they sell to people who are less affected by economic down turns and keep buying even when the economy is bad. The Corvette, being more oriented to "real people" as in me, is more likely to take a big hit in sales when its target audience is worried about its paychecks. And the economic downturn corresponded to rumors about the C7 so there were probably at least some buyers holding off purchasing while they waited for C7.
So GM has to factor in that bumpy sales history. Even if they could survive as a company in years like 2008 at 35K cars or 2014 at 37K cars, what would happen in years like 2012 where they didn't make it to 12K? As one car among many made by Chevrolet, GM can probably keep the Corvette alive in those 12K sales year - particularly since its a prestige/flagship performance product for Chevy. In fact that flagship performance aspect is probably one of the big reasons GM makes a Corvette in the first place.
As a stand alone brand that had to live or die on its own sales, it would not take too many bad years for it to die a painful death. Unless you want to have Corvette SUV like Porshe has the Cayenne? Guess you could move the SRX and Escalade to being "Corvettes" but those are just re-badged Chevy's anyway.
PS: on the issue of dealerships and service and "complaints of not being able to get service within a reasonable distance" I have to think about my state: Minnesota. There are three Porsche dealers in MN, all in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area. So what if you live in Duluth? Well, you would have a three hour drive to the nearest dealer. If you live in International Falls you may as well forget it.
Last edited by ratman6161; 08-04-2015 at 11:53 AM.
08-04-2015, 12:13 PM
#38
Drifting
The answer is that they can't unless they go with a Porsche model for sales and service. Example: here is Porsche's own press release regarding their North American sales for 2013 - which they state is a record year.
http://press.porsche.com/news/release.php?id=837
Note that by their own numbers they sold just over 42,000 vehicles so this is actually a very good comparison because the total Porsche North America sales are very similar to the number of C7 Corvettes sold (more I why I'm comparing to C7 and not 2013 C6 when Porsche numbers are for 2013 later) . Another thing to note though about Porsche numbers is that the combined sales of all Boxster, Cayman and 911 variants about equaled the totals for Cayenne SUV. So even Porsche would be in big trouble if its sports cars were its only models.
Now lets look at what was happening with C6 Corvettes 2008 - 2013. See sales numbers in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette
Sales dropped from 35K in 2008 to 17K in 2009 and bottomed out at 11,647 in 2012. This about corresponds with the economic down turn, just as Porsche was reporting record sales. What was happening? The Porsche model is to build an ultra exclusive product at high prices at the expense of large volumes. The ultra exclusive aspect means they sell to people who are less affected by economic down turns and keep buying even when the economy is bad. The Corvette, being more oriented to "real people" as in me, is more likely to take a big hit in sales when its target audience is worried about its paychecks. And the economic downturn corresponded to rumors about the C7 so there were probably at least some buyers holding off purchasing while they waited for C7.
So GM has to factor in that bumpy sales history. Even if they could survive as a company in years like 2008 at 35K cars or 2014 at 37K cars, what would happen in years like 2012 where they didn't make it to 12K? As one car among many made by Chevrolet, GM can probably keep the Corvette alive in those 12K sales year - particularly since its a prestige/flagship performance product for Chevy. In fact that flagship performance aspect is probably one of the big reasons GM makes a Corvette in the first place.
As a stand alone brand that had to live or die on its own sales, it would not take too many bad years for it to die a painful death. Unless you want to have Corvette SUV like Porshe has the Cayenne? Guess you could move the SRX and Escalade to being "Corvettes" but those are just re-badged Chevy's anyway.
PS: on the issue of dealerships and service and "complaints of not being able to get service within a reasonable distance" I have to think about my state: Minnesota. There are three Porsche dealers in MN, all in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area. So what if you live in Duluth? Well, you would have a three hour drive to the nearest dealer. If you live in International Falls you may as well forget it.
http://press.porsche.com/news/release.php?id=837
Note that by their own numbers they sold just over 42,000 vehicles so this is actually a very good comparison because the total Porsche North America sales are very similar to the number of C7 Corvettes sold (more I why I'm comparing to C7 and not 2013 C6 when Porsche numbers are for 2013 later) . Another thing to note though about Porsche numbers is that the combined sales of all Boxster, Cayman and 911 variants about equaled the totals for Cayenne SUV. So even Porsche would be in big trouble if its sports cars were its only models.
Now lets look at what was happening with C6 Corvettes 2008 - 2013. See sales numbers in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette
Sales dropped from 35K in 2008 to 17K in 2009 and bottomed out at 11,647 in 2012. This about corresponds with the economic down turn, just as Porsche was reporting record sales. What was happening? The Porsche model is to build an ultra exclusive product at high prices at the expense of large volumes. The ultra exclusive aspect means they sell to people who are less affected by economic down turns and keep buying even when the economy is bad. The Corvette, being more oriented to "real people" as in me, is more likely to take a big hit in sales when its target audience is worried about its paychecks. And the economic downturn corresponded to rumors about the C7 so there were probably at least some buyers holding off purchasing while they waited for C7.
So GM has to factor in that bumpy sales history. Even if they could survive as a company in years like 2008 at 35K cars or 2014 at 37K cars, what would happen in years like 2012 where they didn't make it to 12K? As one car among many made by Chevrolet, GM can probably keep the Corvette alive in those 12K sales year - particularly since its a prestige/flagship performance product for Chevy. In fact that flagship performance aspect is probably one of the big reasons GM makes a Corvette in the first place.
As a stand alone brand that had to live or die on its own sales, it would not take too many bad years for it to die a painful death. Unless you want to have Corvette SUV like Porshe has the Cayenne? Guess you could move the SRX and Escalade to being "Corvettes" but those are just re-badged Chevy's anyway.
PS: on the issue of dealerships and service and "complaints of not being able to get service within a reasonable distance" I have to think about my state: Minnesota. There are three Porsche dealers in MN, all in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area. So what if you live in Duluth? Well, you would have a three hour drive to the nearest dealer. If you live in International Falls you may as well forget it.
08-04-2015, 12:17 PM
#39
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
My point exactly. You can't point to the Viper "fiasco" that "failed" and say that it won't work without pointing to the Ram model that has worked out well for Chrysler. It all depends on how it is executed. It could work well or be a "fiasco". At this point I think this is a lot like pissing in the wind.
As to Cadillac spinning off---from what? Detroit? Detroit only. It is still a division of GM. Not a stand-alone company.
As to Chevrolet being in, or not being in the $75K+(or more) business of selling cars, that strikes me as being an odd one: they DO do it, don't they? 35K-39K cars called Corvettes in good years, right? So where is the rub? How wrong can they be doing it?
Last edited by AORoads; 08-04-2015 at 12:29 PM.
08-04-2015, 01:54 PM
#40
Instructor
I will agree that the Corvette needs to become its own nameplate for one reason alone: the dealer network. With the exception of some dealers that know how to serve luxury-level customers (and are most likely the most successful Corvette dealerships because of it), the standard Chevy dealership experience is not conducive to stealing people away from Porsche, Jaguar, Aston, Ferrari, etc.
Walking into a Porsche dealership and walking into a Chevrolet dealership and you have two completely different experiences. Heck, it's the same thing with any sports car or luxury marque that I mentioned. The people are just trained up to a higher level.
Now, absolutely there are exceptions - and they are undoubtedly the dealers that move 20+ Vettes a month. I had an excellent experience at Stasek Chevrolet and I'm sure you get the same kind of thing at Kerbeck, etc.
BUT, if you don't believe me, walk into an average BMW/Merc/Jag/Land Rover/Porsche dealership. Then walk into an average Ford/Chevy/Toyota dealership. You'll see a difference in how you're greeted, the quality of the showroom, the amenities, everything.
Covettes go for big boy money. They should treat their customers like the big boys, too. If we give Corvette its own dealer network, it creates that exclusivity, it requires that same level of customer service, so it's one and the same with Porsche, so those customers who are used to it there can walk into a 'Corvette' dealer and feel at home, love the car, be amazed at the inexpensive price, and get more Vettes on the road.
Walking into a Porsche dealership and walking into a Chevrolet dealership and you have two completely different experiences. Heck, it's the same thing with any sports car or luxury marque that I mentioned. The people are just trained up to a higher level.
Now, absolutely there are exceptions - and they are undoubtedly the dealers that move 20+ Vettes a month. I had an excellent experience at Stasek Chevrolet and I'm sure you get the same kind of thing at Kerbeck, etc.
BUT, if you don't believe me, walk into an average BMW/Merc/Jag/Land Rover/Porsche dealership. Then walk into an average Ford/Chevy/Toyota dealership. You'll see a difference in how you're greeted, the quality of the showroom, the amenities, everything.
Covettes go for big boy money. They should treat their customers like the big boys, too. If we give Corvette its own dealer network, it creates that exclusivity, it requires that same level of customer service, so it's one and the same with Porsche, so those customers who are used to it there can walk into a 'Corvette' dealer and feel at home, love the car, be amazed at the inexpensive price, and get more Vettes on the road.
I have zero problems with the Vette being a Chevy, just as I'm fine with the even more incongruous Ford GT being a Ford. But if GM wants to move more metal at Vette pricing, a separate nameplate with a better dealer experience could be just what the doctor ordered. As it is now, I take my vette to a dealer > 1 hr away, bypassing 6 closer dealers, because they suck. I have a Porsche, Subaru, and an Acura - all offer better dealer experiences than average Chevy.