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You are 100% correct.... That's one hell of a ride.
Do some research on NASCAR G-Force data....it's out there. Easy to find.
Many of the shorter tracks are high banked.
Many of the oval tracks at 200+ MPH will create 3+ G's for the drivers, not the straights but the corners.
Doing it on a banked track is essentially meaningless. I had an airplane that would theoretically pull 12 G's before the wings folded. They are both examples of vertical acceleration and not representative of what is important in road or even track cars. The stock car just needs stiff enough springs to avoid bottoming while cornering. That is not to say that what they are doing is easy.
As for the age 70 comment, 70 is the new 50, so what's the big deal?
I have a female friend over 70 who is contemplating a Z06 purchase. And I'm sure she plans on racing it and beats most of the guys I know.
Oh, and temperature: start getting much over 100 F track temp and I think you'll find the track getting slipperier (or slippy, if you're a rally navigator).
A few years ago, I was at a Vette club track event and had the chance to drive both my C5 Z51 and a non-Z51 C5. The main difference was control and predictability near the edge. Throttle oversteer was simple and controlled on the Z51 while the base car would break away without much warning - and it was a little hairier when it happened. While very few of us will push these kinds of limits on the street, the Z51 gave me confidence I wouldn't have had with the base model after the experience of driving both.
While my new C7 (Nov. museum delivery) will be primarily a DD, it was a no-brainer to order the Z51 option.
Tomlink. Thanks for the real world comparison. It confirms what I thought. My new snowmobile is very predictable as you approach the edge. I don't like surprises and feel the z51 will be worth the extra cost. My brother in law has a z51 and swears he would have been killed in an emergency maneuver if not for the z51 package.
i would never buy a non z51 because they are to soft, and i am not 70 years old.
And I am unlikely to buy a Z51 (without MRC) because on the lousy potholed roads around here it's too firm. You're entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't mean it's any more than your opinion, or any more "right" than anyone else's.
As far as more "handling stuff" (gotta love the technical description, there), the only thing that really matters as far as the feel you describe are the bigger anti-roll bars, which can easily be added to a base.
1G is nothing to write home about. Compare that to a F1 (3 to 5g), Indycar (2 to 3g) or Nascar (3 to 4g) race car and those guys experince much greater G-Force.
Sort of an apples to oranges comparison. NASCAR numbers, if accurate, are accomplished only because of a very steeply banked race track, they can't even remotely achieve that on a road course. Don
the OP probably has a non Z51 or is thinking about getting a non Z51 and trying to make himself feel better it. by bring up a small difference in the G numbers.
i would never buy a non z51 because they are to soft, and i am not 70 years old.
Rubbish, another "mine is bigger than yours sort of response". Z51 vs base is a personal opinion, your opinion no better than anyone else's. Don
I am 70 years old and like the Z51 what does age have to do with it?
90% of us will never see 1g in the car, Z-51 or not. I don't think that AGE has a thing to do with it, that was a DUMB statement. I have to agree with you.
Last edited by vettman96; 08-26-2015 at 07:13 PM.
Reason: addition
I like to push my Z51 in turns using the G-meter as a reference point. If I can get .8 in a particular turn, then next time I'll try for .9 or higher. One time I heard the tires start to squeal and then I saw 1.1.
Limit cornering grip has little to do with stiffness of shocks and sways, unless your sways are so stiff that you're picking up your inside wheel. Limit grip is suspension geometry and tires (compound, pressure, tread), which is why the Z51 and regular C7 have basically the same limit.
Suspension stiffness overall and relative stiffness front-to-back affects how the car manages transitions and other driver inputs, and how the car maintains contact with rough or smooth track surfaces.
To me, the main track benefit of the Z51 is the increased cooling and LSD. Those being unnecessary on the street, I'd not buy the Z51 for a street car.
Interesting thread. I'll be 72 in a month and only own a '16 base, A8, non-Z51, NPP, PDR 'Vette but it sure is fun for an old fart on the TN/NC twisties. The 1.11 G's screenshot is from a return Dragon pass I made at Deals Gap following a Guinness World Record attempt at 'Most Corvettes On The Dragon' (over 400 I heard) on Friday, 10/16/15. Of course, being so old, and considering the meaninglessness of the PDR G-Meter, I can't get too excited about it but the lateral forces made my fiance giggle and gave me wood. The hot Michelins worked well without any audible complaints on my light LT1. Cheers!
A few years ago, I was at a Vette club track event and had the chance to drive both my C5 Z51 and a non-Z51 C5. The main difference was control and predictability near the edge. Throttle oversteer was simple and controlled on the Z51 while the base car would break away without much warning - and it was a little hairier when it happened. While very few of us will push these kinds of limits on the street, the Z51 gave me confidence I wouldn't have had with the base model after the experience of driving both.
While my new C7 (Nov. museum delivery) will be primarily a DD, it was a no-brainer to order the Z51 option.
I never knew we even had the Z51 option with the C5.
But I am convinced that Z51 saved our ***** in our C6 on the interstate one day when a chair flew out of a pick up right into my lane. When it was over in a second I couldn't believe that I was able to avoid the chair and then still remain stable on the highway.
When the C7 came out, one of the articles (by GM, I think) talked about the tires and compared the Z51 tires with the base Stingray tires. They are both called "Super Sports", but the Z51 tires have a different tread compound and some other differences that I don't recall.
Considering the tire differences, I'd be surprised if the base car can corner within .03G of the Z51. Not to mention suspension/alignment differences.
We have a 2009 Z51 C6, just wore out our second set of Michelin PS2 (Pilot Sport 2) runflats on the car. Replaced them with C7 base Super Sport runflats (proper size) because the PS2 runflats in our size are not available. After the first 500 miles, our new tires do feel less grippy than the previous PS2's.
EDIT:
But our new tires are definitely smoother riding and quieter than the old PS2's. Not sure how much of that is due to better design and how much is from simply being new/full tread depth/not heat cycled to death.
Ask me in the Spring.
Last edited by Gearhead Jim; 10-19-2015 at 03:46 PM.
Limit cornering grip has little to do with stiffness of shocks and sways, unless your sways are so stiff that you're picking up your inside wheel. Limit grip is suspension geometry and tires (compound, pressure, tread), which is why the Z51 and regular C7 have basically the same limit.
Suspension stiffness overall and relative stiffness front-to-back affects how the car manages transitions and other driver inputs, and how the car maintains contact with rough or smooth track surfaces.
To me, the main track benefit of the Z51 is the increased cooling and LSD. Those being unnecessary on the street, I'd not buy the Z51 for a street car.
If one is going to regularly pull 1g on the street, isn't the Z51 dry sump a benefit or even a necessity?
Generally, GM designs Corvettes and their engines so you can't pull enough G to oil-starve the engine on the stock tires. Especially if you add the extra quart of oil they recommend (C4-C5-C6, not sure about C7), and for the relatively short amount of time of a hard corner on public roads.
When you switch to race tires, drive the long high speed/high G sweepers on a road course, and keep the engine at high rpm while you're doing it, all bets are off.
I've pulled as high as 1.18 G on our 2009 Z51 with street tires, but that was testing in a parking lot with a "lunge", and way above what the car can hold for any sustained time.
Actually, if "one is going to regularly pull 1g on the street", you'll also need a good body shop and good medical coverage. A small bit of sand/gravel/oil/leaves, or pavement/tires colder than you thought, or any one of a million other things, and you're off the road. That stuff happens on track also, but usually there is some runoff room.
Having said all that, I'd be happy to have the dry sump on any Corvette I owned.
I have no idea how accurate the lateral G display in the HUD is but I've had my non-Z51 right at 1. Not sure how much more I'd want to push beyond that.
Originally Posted by LIStingray
I have read both 1.06g & 1.03g for the Z51and base; and 1.03g & 1.00g for the Z51 and base in two different places - either way the difference is 0.03g.
That being said, anywhere but a race track, I have a really hard time consistently seeing above 0.90g on my C7 - mostly because I guess I just don't seem to push it hard enough.
Easy to get my Z51 to read 1.1! That's at relatively low speed around the fountain at the end of my street! Single lane with lots of grass on the right! That's a transient peak reading. Not sure what speed, as the saying goes "if you're looking at instruments you're not going as fast as you could!" Nice to have the delay and retention in the "g" reading! Bet the Autocross folks could give us some interesting numbers.
[QUOTE=owc6;1590768581]Dude, haven't you heard? 70 is the new 60! [/QUOTE
I'm just messing with ya.I just wanted to see what kind of reaction I'd get.
I'm right behind ya .Going on 64.Hang in there.
Dude, haven't you heard? 70 is the new 60! [/QUOTE
I'm just messing with ya.I just wanted to see what kind of reaction I'd get.
I'm right behind ya .Going on 64.Hang in there.
I'm in my 50's. What made you think the "ow" in my username stood for old woman?
08-26-2015, 11:15 AM
That's one hell of a ride. 
I have to agree with you.
The hot Michelins worked well without any audible complaints on my light LT1. Cheers! 
