When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Ignition wire debate? H.P. gains from going lower ohm??
Ive seen these types of threads before and I have to say I'm a little shocked at the youtube video I saw today. First: The Idea that they could pick up 13.5 hp(as stated in video) from just changing their ignition wire type leads me to believe that if it was that easy GM would do it right? of course they would DUH, they can get those wire types for the same price as their stock wires for sure. I mean they are always looking to shave a few pounds here or there and gain a few HP here or there... So gaining 13.5 HP would be like 99 lbs wouldn't it (3400 divided by 460=7.39 13.5 x 7.39=99 freakin pounds) They make the freakin hood out of carbon fiber to loose about 20 lbs so Its just either shocking or shocking the video and dyno pulls below.
To help the conversation I am an ASE certified master technician who got trained in all areas but specialized in engine management/performance and was trained back in the early 90's when we actually used an oscilloscope and a gas analyzer in every engine diagnostic to analyze spark and fuel of course. These days (and im heavily trained in todays computer diagnostics) shops and techs don't even know what those 2 things are, great diagnostic tools to analyze exactly what the engine is doing, not just a scanner and code puller type guy.
So all this said, you all have seen the spark plug wire sellers advertise 2 typical potential misconceptions to sell wires
1. Bigger wire size (7 to 10mm for instance) what I have seen on these wires is the core stays the same but they are adding insulation to gain the size, this does nothing but better protect the wire from heat, something on the vettes these days is pretty much irrelevant since the wires are in the open not running next to head pipes and the stock wires are fine. On the C3 and 4 they needed 10mm wires with the extra insulation because the wires ran in between the headers on some models. now if they are increasing core size then sure that's better but I don't think your are gaining power that way really.
2. zero ohm wires, now this is where the conversation should get good, the manufacture builds resistance "INTO" the wire so to speak to help with what some call RFI which as an easy way to say they don't want static in the radio basically and because they wind the wires for better AC current flow as well there is some resistance but its built into the design not ike its a bad thing. The cores of the wires are wound with a few different types of stuff, some use fiberglass etc.. for insulation and the cross section type wire is the best way to get AC energy to chase down to the plug, some would think a solid core piece of copper would be your best bet but its just not like that. Low resistance sounds like better voltage, higher spark value, better fuel burn (not fuel ignition which is bad of course, 2 different things). But that's just not the case. I can take any of these wires and put it on an oscilloscope and show you everything you want to know about a spark plug firing.
Burn time, burn KV value (the output voltage of the coil) etc etc etc etc I can go on for an hour on this topic, I can look at a spark/cylinder on an oscilloscope and tell you if a cylinder is running rich or lean so its pretty advanced stuff.
Lower ohm's equals more power? I'm just not convinced of this in reality all the time unless we are speaking of a wire "GAINING" ohm resistance.
I really don't care about some guys doing dyno pulls because every time we see that we have zero idea of the claims (did they change the tune for instance which is what I see happening on all the air filter stuff on the C7). Now show me the difference in oscilloscope pattern and I would show you they look basically identical. If they don't then I believe you. Are we really gaining 13.5 Horsepower from swapping to these spark plug wires? I just don't and cant wrap my head around believing it from a technical standpoint. I would need more info and proof of this being reality. If its true then GM will do it and so will I.
BUT, THE VIDEO SHOWS IT. WOW. NOTE:in the video the guy says "now lets change out the spark plug wires and coils and do another dyno pull, that's not just wires either that's coils to so I don't know if that was miss said or what. and also this might help sell more wires for them then not, I hope I get a kickback,lol I hope this thread gets good, im "IN" for a start of the week good debate..... paul
I wouldn't put ANYTHING that has Granatelli on it in my garage let alone on my car.
Total
Elmer
ASE master tech here, I was first certified in 1980 when it was called N.I.A.S.E (National Institute for Automotive Excellence) and I to specialized in engine performance and have been certified ASE "L1" since they started testing "L1".
I used O-Scopes everyday for decades and emission analyzers and dynos. I agree...ignition wires will not increase HP by 13+HP and probably none at all. The amount of peak voltage available at the plug in stock form is well over 40,000 volts. That's "peak". Your spark plugs will never require 40,000 volts at idle or full throttle but it is there as a reserve in case the plug gaps get too wide with wear if they are not changed on schedule.
The first thing I though when seeing the video is ********!
It's easy to believe this crap if you don't know how it works.
Cold air kits in some cases and certain hi performance air filters can fall into this category as well although there are some that help especially if you increase the need for more air as in supercharging or turbo charging or a cam and headers. Otherwise the engineers have it optimized to deliver more then enough air. But again there are exceptions.
Removing 2 of the 4 catalytic converters can add a little more HP but would have to be dynoed to be sure and not dynoed by the people that sell the products.
You have no idea how easy it is to change dyno pull numbers. I can make the HP just about anything you want it to say within reason.
To summarize...These cars are so well developed right now that the thought of 13+HP at the rear wheels by doing plug wires is just silly.
I have a lot of cars and I spend a lot of $$$ making them faster. The point is take advice from someone NOT trying to sell you something.
I wouldn't put ANYTHING that has Granatelli on it in my garage let alone on my car.
Total
Elmer
ASE master tech here, I was first certified in 1980 when it was called N.I.A.S.E (National Institute for Automotive Excellence) and I to specialized in engine performance and have been certified ASE "L1" since they started testing "L1".
I used O-Scopes everyday for decades and emission analyzers and dynos. I agree...ignition wires will not increase HP by 13+HP and probably none at all. The amount of peak voltage available at the plug in stock form is well over 40,000 volts. That's "peak". Your spark plugs will never require 40,000 volts at idle or full throttle but it is there as a reserve in case the plug gaps get too wide with wear if they are not changed on schedule.
The first thing I though when seeing the video is ********!
It's easy to believe this crap if you don't know how it works.
Cold air kits in some cases and certain hi performance air filters can fall into this category as well although there are some that help especially if you increase the need for more air as in supercharging or turbo charging or a cam and headers. Otherwise the engineers have it optimized to deliver more then enough air. But again there are exceptions.
Removing 2 of the 4 catalytic converters can add a little more HP but would have to be dynoed to be sure and not dynoed by the people that sell the products.
You have no idea how easy it is to change dyno pull numbers. I can make the HP just about anything you want it to say within reason.
To summarize...These cars are so well developed right now that the thought of 13+HP at the rear wheels by doing plug wires is just silly.
I have a lot of cars and I spend a lot of $$$ making them faster. The point is take advice from someone NOT trying to sell you something.
There are two conditions in which putting these wires on your stock engine will increase power:
1. The old wires are really old or defective, and have a really high resistance. But in that case putting a new set of OEM wires will have the same effect.
2. Your plugs are so worn that they will barely fire with the stock wires. In that case the slight increase in voltage from the zero ohm wires might be just enough to overcome the wear. But if that's the case, you really need new plugs, not new wires.
IOW, I agree with the OP. The plugs either get enough voltage to fire, or they don't. A small increase in voltage won't make them fire "better."
Not being the motorhead I used to be 40 years ago, I rely on the advice of "experts". Guys like the tech at the dealership, the service writer or people like the OP here on the forum.
But knowing a little about electricity and understanding that more is not necessarily better I would not fall for this type of hogwash. Same with air intakes ( not supercharging or similar), Helium in your tires to make the car lighter.
Thanks for the information and the tutorial, HANNY. And thanks to the engineers at GM for this car.
Many years ago resistor wires and plugs were not to be used on marine engines because they were generally meant to run at full load at rated RPM for sustained periods of time and the "points and condenser" ignition system of those days suffered a major voltage drop at higher RPM leading to fouling and misfire so no additional drop in the cable or plug was acceptable. I have seen a lot of modifications for the LT-1 but I have yet to see anybody going back to an old style ignition system so I don't think voltage drop at high RPM is going to be an issue
What next, liquid nitrogen cooling for the leads so we can truly approach zero resistance. "magic" cables do an excellent job of extracting money but not so much for horsepower.
ASE master tech here, I was first certified in 1980 when it was called N.I.A.S.E (National Institute for Automotive Excellence) and I to specialized in engine performance and have been certified ASE "L1" since they started testing "L1".
I used O-Scopes everyday for decades and emission analyzers and dynos. I agree...ignition wires will not increase HP by 13+HP and probably none at all. The amount of peak voltage available at the plug in stock form is well over 40,000 volts. That's "peak". Your spark plugs will never require 40,000 volts at idle or full throttle but it is there as a reserve in case the plug gaps get too wide with wear if they are not changed on schedule.
The first thing I though when seeing the video is ********!
It's easy to believe this crap if you don't know how it works.
L1 here to since 90's as well, I think it started about that time, finally ran into someone who has a little bit of a clue,,,, refreshing
There are two conditions in which putting these wires on your stock engine will increase power:
1. The old wires are really old or defective, and have a really high resistance. But in that case putting a new set of OEM wires will have the same effect.
2. Your plugs are so worn that they will barely fire with the stock wires. In that case the slight increase in voltage from the zero ohm wires might be just enough to overcome the wear. But if that's the case, you really need new plugs, not new wires.
IOW, I agree with the OP. The plugs either get enough voltage to fire, or they don't. A small increase in voltage won't make them fire "better."
Glad you posted this. As long as you get complete burn of the air fuel mix in the cylinder it doesn't make sense that using a lower resistance wire would add any HP. Unless you have a bad wire or plug there shouldn't be any HP to be gained from the perceived upgrade from OEM components.
Hey! I put helium in my tires and my car is noticeably faster. Brakes better, too!
You'll get better gas mileage too! There is less weight on the road for less resistance and I read on the Granatelli site it will give you 25 MPG better than you have now!
Be careful of over pressurization, as it will make the car feel slippery due to the "lift" of the gas.
12-21-2015, 06:28 PM
Ignition wire debate? H.P. gains from going lower ohm??
