Grand Sport Announcement Thread
07-31-2016, 06:42 PM
#2041
Racer
I very rarely post to forums, but I'm going to throw something out.
I own a C7 Z06. I purchased it because it can compete with most exotics out there and it looks unique. (Well it did).
If you look at what older Corvettes are worth, most C3-C7's have residuals like Camrys. Because they built a lot of them and were cheap.
C1's and 2's had lower production numbers and had limited production powertrains. The C7 Grand Sport is just another example of GM looking at making more units and diluting the valuation of Z06's.
GM could easily sell the current Z06 for $150K and build less than 9000 units to make the same profit. They consciously choose to run up the numbers and dilute the equity of the Z06.
What if every Stingray built from 63-67 had a split window option. How much would a '63 be worth today?
I have watched and attended auctions where owner put up cars with less than 1000 mi and the auctioneer is begging someone to take it for 8 or $9K.
You go to a dealer shopping for a Camaro SS or Z28 with a $60+ price tag and the dealer as a alternative to discounting the Camaro says " I can put you in that Vette for "$52K out the door".
I understand the "Americas Sports Car" thing, but I think the Corvette with it great legacy and racing heritage belong in a more elite position.
Corvette could be take out of Chevy, sold as 1 high performance, limited production model with a lot of personalization and then the mid engine model could be introduced above it even more limited production.
2005 Ford GT Buyers are smiling from ear to ear right now with the value of their cars.
Do any other owners of Z06's feel like their getting duped?
I would just like Corvette to get the respect it disserves.
Thought?
I own a C7 Z06. I purchased it because it can compete with most exotics out there and it looks unique. (Well it did).
If you look at what older Corvettes are worth, most C3-C7's have residuals like Camrys. Because they built a lot of them and were cheap.
C1's and 2's had lower production numbers and had limited production powertrains. The C7 Grand Sport is just another example of GM looking at making more units and diluting the valuation of Z06's.
GM could easily sell the current Z06 for $150K and build less than 9000 units to make the same profit. They consciously choose to run up the numbers and dilute the equity of the Z06.
What if every Stingray built from 63-67 had a split window option. How much would a '63 be worth today?
I have watched and attended auctions where owner put up cars with less than 1000 mi and the auctioneer is begging someone to take it for 8 or $9K.
You go to a dealer shopping for a Camaro SS or Z28 with a $60+ price tag and the dealer as a alternative to discounting the Camaro says " I can put you in that Vette for "$52K out the door".
I understand the "Americas Sports Car" thing, but I think the Corvette with it great legacy and racing heritage belong in a more elite position.
Corvette could be take out of Chevy, sold as 1 high performance, limited production model with a lot of personalization and then the mid engine model could be introduced above it even more limited production.
2005 Ford GT Buyers are smiling from ear to ear right now with the value of their cars.
Do any other owners of Z06's feel like their getting duped?
I would just like Corvette to get the respect it disserves.
Thought?
Clearly you are ignorant. GM's C6 GS was their best selling model and has the same formula as the C7 GS (base motor + all the Z06 goodies including body). That was a precedent. Surpise, they did they same thing with the C7.
There will be many Z06 owners feeling slighted. Good news. You get to drive a fantastic sports car. It's better than the GS but the GS owners should not be accused of diluting your value. Enjoy your car. Drive it. Stop complaining.
08-01-2016, 03:58 AM
#2042
Pro
I can see why they have to charge more for the car, just because they sell so few, I for one just won't pay it. Seems to me Vipers were always a hard sell around here, they would sit on the showroom floor for a year before selling. I know the one I bought which the dealer ordered took two years to get and then sat there for 9 months. From what I hear Dodge is putting the Hellcat engine in a half ton truck, and a Jeep Cherokee, too bad they didn't put it in the Viper, (I really didn't like the V-10 exhaust note), may have bought one but not for the same price as the Corvette unless they fixed the red hot console and side exhaust and a few other things I wasn't crazy about. Oh well, Dodge will probably put that Hellcat engine in everything it can, just like GM putting the LT4 in the Camaro, Cadillac, and Corvette.
Last edited by mrbeautie; 08-01-2016 at 04:21 AM.
08-01-2016, 04:43 AM
#2043
The Viper needed a cheaper V8 version to compete in the market price-wise. It also needed an optional automatic as the majority of people buying cars today don't want a manual. I don't even think they had a convertible this gen. Then they can always keep the manual and bigger engine for the more expensive ACR version.
08-01-2016, 12:20 PM
#2045
Pro
:
:agree: If you can only sell 842 cars a year it's best just to let the whole concept vanish and start a new project. If they only built that many Corvettes it too would be history. There was talk a while ago about a V8 Viper but then the Hellcat surprisingly showed up. Dodge as always will come out with something now that the Viper is gone.
The Viper needed a cheaper V8 version to compete in the market price-wise. It also needed an optional automatic as the majority of people buying cars today don't want a manual. I don't even think they had a convertible this gen. Then they can always keep the manual and bigger engine for the more expensive ACR version.
Last edited by mrbeautie; 08-01-2016 at 12:31 PM.
08-02-2016, 04:15 PM
#2047
Safety Car
Thanks for not posting too often. You think that General Motors is devaluing the Z06 brand by bringing out a GS and you feel a little duped.
Clearly you are ignorant. GM's C6 GS was their best selling model and has the same formula as the C7 GS (base motor + all the Z06 goodies including body). That was a precedent. Surpise, they did they same thing with the C7.
There will be many Z06 owners feeling slighted. Good news. You get to drive a fantastic sports car. It's better than the GS but the GS owners should not be accused of diluting your value. Enjoy your car. Drive it. Stop complaining.
Clearly you are ignorant. GM's C6 GS was their best selling model and has the same formula as the C7 GS (base motor + all the Z06 goodies including body). That was a precedent. Surpise, they did they same thing with the C7.
There will be many Z06 owners feeling slighted. Good news. You get to drive a fantastic sports car. It's better than the GS but the GS owners should not be accused of diluting your value. Enjoy your car. Drive it. Stop complaining.
08-02-2016, 04:43 PM
#2048
::agree: If you can only sell 842 cars a year it's best just to let the whole concept vanish and start a new project. If they only built that many Corvettes it too would be history. There was talk a while ago about a V8 Viper but then the Hellcat surprisingly showed up. Dodge as always will come out with something now that the Viper is gone.
One of my buddies had a Viper and we swapped cars for a few weeks, my 911 for his Viper. My first impression is that the power is really poorly managed for a car that pretends to be a street car. In fact, I felt it was dangerously under-engineered, putting out far too much torque for its suspension to properly manage, leading to issues like accidental drifting and burnouts when you least want it (like pulling out of a driveway after a light rain). Bizarrely, it also suffered from entirely too stiff of a suspension. It's like, if you're going to design a stiff suspension, it should at least be able to handle the power you're putting down.
The worst thing about it was the cramped and cheap-feeling cabin and those awful seats - no matter what I did, it was impossible to find a comfortable, natural driving position. It always felt like my back was in an unnatural and awkward position, like I was sitting too far forward in one of those cheap office chairs with no lumbar support. Back pain has never been an issue for me, UNTIL I spent a few days in a Viper. Then my wrists and back were screaming.
The Corvette is another story entirely. It is truly a comfortable car, and I love the driving position. The seats are very supportive and better than the seats in any of the Porsches I've owned. You can choose between "fun" and "polite" with the flick of a switch, and the Vette does a great job in both modes (Track and Tour being my favorites). As crazy as it sounds, the cabin is much roomier in the Vette, and feels more open. I love the removable top - even though I've broken two of them now. And frankly, my stock C7 will dominate any stock Viper at the red light with the exception of the new ACR.
So I feel like the Viper is just not worth the compromises asked. Especially at its price point. There are so many better street performance cars out there. Unless you are driving it strictly on the track, the Viper is just not a good "car". It was always a bragging experiment for the brand, and that becomes apparent when you drive it. Especially for those of us who've had the opportunity to drive its opponents, ALL of which were far better cars in every measurable way - from comfort, to performance, to practicality.
Anyway.... that's my long drawn-out 2 cents.
08-02-2016, 07:04 PM
#2051
I hope GM stops building the C7 and any other Corvette right NOW! Just think what my car will be worth. Seriously like others have said I am happy to be able to afford what I have. GM is a high production car company and that is and always has been their philosophy. Dodge tried what your suggesting building 2000 to 2500 Vipers a year, last year selling 842, now they are gone. I purchased a new 2008 Viper in 2008 for $78,000, (cheap, that's why I bought it) sticker price was $100,000 that same model in a 2016 is $130,000 and the ACR which I think compares to my Z06 with the Z07 package is $160,000, sticker on my car was $126,000. Future values will be lower because there are more built but at least I can own one. They only built 4000 ZR1's in 5 years and many buyers put them into long term storage with 0 miles, thinking they would be worth a fortune, when the C7 Z06 came out it dropped the price on the ZR1 dramatically. The same fate awaits the C7 Z06 when the next new and improved model comes out. Quit worrying about what it's worth and enjoy it while you can.
The 2016 Viper's base price is $88k, not "$130k" as you claim
The 2016 ACR's price is $120k, not "$160k" as you claim
Please stop talking out of your ***, thanks
08-02-2016, 07:58 PM
#2052
Dodge's site the base price starts at 89,995. I changed one seating configuration and the price changed to 109K. So, the pricing is not "that bad" as long as you don't want any options. Keep in mind most dealers will only get one or two Vipers and tend to order a lot of options.
Last edited by jma242; 08-02-2016 at 07:59 PM.
08-02-2016, 08:41 PM
#2053
08-02-2016, 08:55 PM
#2055
Wow! Didn't this used to be the "Grand Sport Announcement Thread"?
The following 4 users liked this post by 2cnd Chance:
08-03-2016, 01:03 PM
#2057
MotorTrend's Grand Sport First Drive
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...-drive-review/
Writing's a bit sloppy but it's yet another good review.
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...-drive-review/
Writing's a bit sloppy but it's yet another good review.
The following users liked this post:
2cnd Chance (08-03-2016)
08-03-2016, 02:19 PM
#2058
MotorTrend's Grand Sport First Drive
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...-drive-review/
Writing's a bit sloppy but it's yet another good review.
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...-drive-review/
Writing's a bit sloppy but it's yet another good review.
08-03-2016, 03:01 PM
#2060
Racer
"They only built 4000 ZR1's in 5 years and many buyers put them into long term storage with 0 miles, thinking they would be worth a fortune, when the C7 Z06 came out it dropped the price on the ZR1 dramatically. The same fate awaits the C7 Z06 when the next new and improved model comes out. Quit worrying about what it's worth and enjoy it while you can." Originally Posted by mrbeautie.
Toast! Cheers! I get a kick out of folks that store their vette and preserve it as an investment as if it were a 1962-1964 Ferrari 250 GTO (think Ferris Bueller). It's not. It has the Chevy bowtie on it. Drive it and enjoy it because you'll not get rich selling it! Recently on a military base a captain made a beeline for me as I was parking. Turns out he's a fellow vette owner, however we couldn't have been at further ends of the Corvette philosophy spectrum. It started when I mentioned how good the tires (Conti Extreme Contact) grip in the rain. "You drive it in the rain!?" Uh....yeah, I do. He shook his head and then explained that he rarely drives his C5. Keeps it locked in the garage. I asked him why that was and his answer was (duh duh duh!): To make money on it by slowing depreciation. Then I shook my head and assured the young captain that I fully intended to drive THE HELL out of my Grand Sport, and when the wheels fall off then I'll simply buy another.
Toast! Cheers! I get a kick out of folks that store their vette and preserve it as an investment as if it were a 1962-1964 Ferrari 250 GTO (think Ferris Bueller). It's not. It has the Chevy bowtie on it. Drive it and enjoy it because you'll not get rich selling it! Recently on a military base a captain made a beeline for me as I was parking. Turns out he's a fellow vette owner, however we couldn't have been at further ends of the Corvette philosophy spectrum. It started when I mentioned how good the tires (Conti Extreme Contact) grip in the rain. "You drive it in the rain!?" Uh....yeah, I do. He shook his head and then explained that he rarely drives his C5. Keeps it locked in the garage. I asked him why that was and his answer was (duh duh duh!): To make money on it by slowing depreciation. Then I shook my head and assured the young captain that I fully intended to drive THE HELL out of my Grand Sport, and when the wheels fall off then I'll simply buy another.
Last edited by Phantom Blur; 08-03-2016 at 03:01 PM.