A10 faster shifts than dual clutch
05-12-2016, 10:01 PM
#41
I told you to be careful. You got your *** handed back to you quite a few times @ C6 forums so you moved to troll here.
Case in point... I currently own a PDK equipped Porsche Turbo S and I have driven A8 Corvette couple times. By driven I mean in anger @ Autobahn just like in town as well.
I'll take the A8 anytime over the PDK any day of the week and twice on Sunday. The only thing I didn't like in the A8 was the rpm drop @ 5th gear. Apparently that is no longer an issue with the A10 so..... Please continue trolling. Perhaps the mods will take measure and ban your trolling *** asap.
Case in point... I currently own a PDK equipped Porsche Turbo S and I have driven A8 Corvette couple times. By driven I mean in anger @ Autobahn just like in town as well.
I'll take the A8 anytime over the PDK any day of the week and twice on Sunday. The only thing I didn't like in the A8 was the rpm drop @ 5th gear. Apparently that is no longer an issue with the A10 so..... Please continue trolling. Perhaps the mods will take measure and ban your trolling *** asap.
My previous AMG was lightning quick in full automatic, but manual mode was frustrating. For me, that's what drove me to go M7 on the Z06. The A8 I experienced (admittedly in a regular C7) had the same characteristics as the AMG and other performance torque converter units I've sampled... Significant lag (particularly on double downshifts) in manual mode.
Not trying to disagree, just seeing if folks that prefer the A8 like to run mostly in full auto. Nothing wrong with that, just personal preference.
05-12-2016, 10:38 PM
#42
Race Director
Same thing they said about the A8 and I didn't buy that either (especially after I drove one). Why don't they simply USE a dual clutch and stop trying to argue their regular tranny is faster?
Last edited by pdiddy972; 05-12-2016 at 10:51 PM.
05-12-2016, 10:39 PM
#43
Race Director
Bingo. Straight line pulls in auto mode being fast is great and needed, but it doesn't feel so hot when you start manually pulling the levers and then wait a second or two for the car to decide to respond.
05-12-2016, 11:52 PM
#44
Or, is harassing and trolling acceptable if it's done to GM owners who comment on legitimate issues with GM produts ????
I actually OWN my 2016 Camaro SS and Corvette. (both manuals)
So , how am I "clueless"????
PM me if you'd like to meet me and my cars in person so you can tell me to my face how "clueless" I am.
Last edited by 20171LE; 05-12-2016 at 11:56 PM.
05-13-2016, 01:52 AM
#45
Burning Brakes
You know, I think both of you would be doing the rest of us a favor if you bowed out of this thread. Somehow, I don't expect that to happen.
Back to the topic at hand, maybe the A8 does shift as fast as PDK or any other DCT. Personally, I don't think it does. The problem isn't necessarily how fast it shifts. The problem is it doesn't shift with the immediacy of PDK or any other DCT. It thinks about it, decides if it's a good idea, then maybe it will or maybe it won't.
Matt Farrah did a One Take video for his YouTube channel The Smoking Tire where he drove a 600HP Magnuson supercharged Stingray that Magnuson was kind enough to loan him. The video is basically Matt talking about how much fun the car is to drive with the supercharger. No big surprise, right? When I watched the video the first time, I found it interesting that the A8 transmission is mentioned twice. The first time, is at the 4:30 mark in the video and Matt basically says GM lied when they said the A8 shifts as fast as PDK. If you watch, you can hear him click the paddle but the car doesn't shift for nearly two seconds. When it did finally shift, it sounds quick but it was certainly delayed. Later, at the 6:30 mark, Matt tries to downshift entering a turn and the car flat out doesn't do it. He wants second and the car decides for whatever reason that third is the gear to be in and keeps it there. The driver is no longer making the decisions; the car is. I don't know if I'm allowed to post a link to the video here but google Smoking Tire One Take Magnuson and it's the first video that pops up in results.
I haven't driven an A8 and probably never will, so I don't have any personal experience with it. I do drive an Audi with their S Tronic dual clutch auto so I do have experience in that area. Based on what I've read from others on here, watching different videos like Matt's, and my own experience with the Audi, the A8 is not as good as a DCT. It doesn't appear to shift as quickly and it certainly doesn't have the immediacy of a DCT. I downshift with the paddle in the Audi and the downshift happens immediately. I pull the down paddle twice and the downshift two gears happens immediately. Same with upshifts. It is simply the best transmission I've ever driven. If I thought the A10 were going to be that good I might be inclined to buy one. Problem is the A10 is the same technology as the A8. It's never going to be as instantaneous as a DCT. Never!
And I'm spent...
Mike
Back to the topic at hand, maybe the A8 does shift as fast as PDK or any other DCT. Personally, I don't think it does. The problem isn't necessarily how fast it shifts. The problem is it doesn't shift with the immediacy of PDK or any other DCT. It thinks about it, decides if it's a good idea, then maybe it will or maybe it won't.
Matt Farrah did a One Take video for his YouTube channel The Smoking Tire where he drove a 600HP Magnuson supercharged Stingray that Magnuson was kind enough to loan him. The video is basically Matt talking about how much fun the car is to drive with the supercharger. No big surprise, right? When I watched the video the first time, I found it interesting that the A8 transmission is mentioned twice. The first time, is at the 4:30 mark in the video and Matt basically says GM lied when they said the A8 shifts as fast as PDK. If you watch, you can hear him click the paddle but the car doesn't shift for nearly two seconds. When it did finally shift, it sounds quick but it was certainly delayed. Later, at the 6:30 mark, Matt tries to downshift entering a turn and the car flat out doesn't do it. He wants second and the car decides for whatever reason that third is the gear to be in and keeps it there. The driver is no longer making the decisions; the car is. I don't know if I'm allowed to post a link to the video here but google Smoking Tire One Take Magnuson and it's the first video that pops up in results.
I haven't driven an A8 and probably never will, so I don't have any personal experience with it. I do drive an Audi with their S Tronic dual clutch auto so I do have experience in that area. Based on what I've read from others on here, watching different videos like Matt's, and my own experience with the Audi, the A8 is not as good as a DCT. It doesn't appear to shift as quickly and it certainly doesn't have the immediacy of a DCT. I downshift with the paddle in the Audi and the downshift happens immediately. I pull the down paddle twice and the downshift two gears happens immediately. Same with upshifts. It is simply the best transmission I've ever driven. If I thought the A10 were going to be that good I might be inclined to buy one. Problem is the A10 is the same technology as the A8. It's never going to be as instantaneous as a DCT. Never!
And I'm spent...
Mike
The following users liked this post:
Carvin (05-13-2016)
05-13-2016, 06:45 AM
#47
Instructor
Are the mods going to do anything about these personal attacks and trolling?
Or, is harassing and trolling acceptable if it's done to GM owners who comment on legitimate issues with GM produts ????
I actually OWN my 2016 Camaro SS and Corvette. (both manuals)
So , how am I "clueless"????
PM me if you'd like to meet me and my cars in person so you can tell me to my face how "clueless" I am.
Or, is harassing and trolling acceptable if it's done to GM owners who comment on legitimate issues with GM produts ????
I actually OWN my 2016 Camaro SS and Corvette. (both manuals)
So , how am I "clueless"????
PM me if you'd like to meet me and my cars in person so you can tell me to my face how "clueless" I am.
Notice how he never quoted my original retort to his nonsense?
Troll level: Fail.
05-13-2016, 06:58 AM
#48
Corvette Enthusiast
Member Since: Oct 2005
Location: Troy & Dearborn, Michigan
Posts: 5,340
Received 918 Likes
on
611 Posts
You know, I think both of you would be doing the rest of us a favor if you bowed out of this thread. Somehow, I don't expect that to happen.
Back to the topic at hand, maybe the A8 does shift as fast as PDK or any other DCT. Personally, I don't think it does. The problem isn't necessarily how fast it shifts. The problem is it doesn't shift with the immediacy of PDK or any other DCT. It thinks about it, decides if it's a good idea, then maybe it will or maybe it won't.
Matt Farrah did a One Take video for his YouTube channel The Smoking Tire where he drove a 600HP Magnuson supercharged Stingray that Magnuson was kind enough to loan him. The video is basically Matt talking about how much fun the car is to drive with the supercharger. No big surprise, right? When I watched the video the first time, I found it interesting that the A8 transmission is mentioned twice. The first time, is at the 4:30 mark in the video and Matt basically says GM lied when they said the A8 shifts as fast as PDK. If you watch, you can hear him click the paddle but the car doesn't shift for nearly two seconds. When it did finally shift, it sounds quick but it was certainly delayed. Later, at the 6:30 mark, Matt tries to downshift entering a turn and the car flat out doesn't do it. He wants second and the car decides for whatever reason that third is the gear to be in and keeps it there. The driver is no longer making the decisions; the car is. I don't know if I'm allowed to post a link to the video here but google Smoking Tire One Take Magnuson and it's the first video that pops up in results.
I haven't driven an A8 and probably never will, so I don't have any personal experience with it. I do drive an Audi with their S Tronic dual clutch auto so I do have experience in that area. Based on what I've read from others on here, watching different videos like Matt's, and my own experience with the Audi, the A8 is not as good as a DCT. It doesn't appear to shift as quickly and it certainly doesn't have the immediacy of a DCT. I downshift with the paddle in the Audi and the downshift happens immediately. I pull the down paddle twice and the downshift two gears happens immediately. Same with upshifts. It is simply the best transmission I've ever driven. If I thought the A10 were going to be that good I might be inclined to buy one. Problem is the A10 is the same technology as the A8. It's never going to be as instantaneous as a DCT. Never!
And I'm spent...
Mike
Back to the topic at hand, maybe the A8 does shift as fast as PDK or any other DCT. Personally, I don't think it does. The problem isn't necessarily how fast it shifts. The problem is it doesn't shift with the immediacy of PDK or any other DCT. It thinks about it, decides if it's a good idea, then maybe it will or maybe it won't.
Matt Farrah did a One Take video for his YouTube channel The Smoking Tire where he drove a 600HP Magnuson supercharged Stingray that Magnuson was kind enough to loan him. The video is basically Matt talking about how much fun the car is to drive with the supercharger. No big surprise, right? When I watched the video the first time, I found it interesting that the A8 transmission is mentioned twice. The first time, is at the 4:30 mark in the video and Matt basically says GM lied when they said the A8 shifts as fast as PDK. If you watch, you can hear him click the paddle but the car doesn't shift for nearly two seconds. When it did finally shift, it sounds quick but it was certainly delayed. Later, at the 6:30 mark, Matt tries to downshift entering a turn and the car flat out doesn't do it. He wants second and the car decides for whatever reason that third is the gear to be in and keeps it there. The driver is no longer making the decisions; the car is. I don't know if I'm allowed to post a link to the video here but google Smoking Tire One Take Magnuson and it's the first video that pops up in results.
I haven't driven an A8 and probably never will, so I don't have any personal experience with it. I do drive an Audi with their S Tronic dual clutch auto so I do have experience in that area. Based on what I've read from others on here, watching different videos like Matt's, and my own experience with the Audi, the A8 is not as good as a DCT. It doesn't appear to shift as quickly and it certainly doesn't have the immediacy of a DCT. I downshift with the paddle in the Audi and the downshift happens immediately. I pull the down paddle twice and the downshift two gears happens immediately. Same with upshifts. It is simply the best transmission I've ever driven. If I thought the A10 were going to be that good I might be inclined to buy one. Problem is the A10 is the same technology as the A8. It's never going to be as instantaneous as a DCT. Never!
And I'm spent...
Mike
Clutch Transmission > Torque Converter Transmission for all things but "smoothness"
05-13-2016, 07:04 AM
#49
Safety Car
Everyone has their own opinion. Someone saying you're clueless is their opinion. Don't get all butt hurt because someone here posts something you don't like. If you get butt hurt this easily, you might want to stop reading here.
The following users liked this post:
Lavender (05-13-2016)
05-13-2016, 10:27 AM
#50
You know, I think both of you would be doing the rest of us a favor if you bowed out of this thread. Somehow, I don't expect that to happen.
Back to the topic at hand, maybe the A8 does shift as fast as PDK or any other DCT. Personally, I don't think it does. The problem isn't necessarily how fast it shifts. The problem is it doesn't shift with the immediacy of PDK or any other DCT. It thinks about it, decides if it's a good idea, then maybe it will or maybe it won't.
Matt Farrah did a One Take video for his YouTube channel The Smoking Tire where he drove a 600HP Magnuson supercharged Stingray that Magnuson was kind enough to loan him. The video is basically Matt talking about how much fun the car is to drive with the supercharger. No big surprise, right? When I watched the video the first time, I found it interesting that the A8 transmission is mentioned twice. The first time, is at the 4:30 mark in the video and Matt basically says GM lied when they said the A8 shifts as fast as PDK. If you watch, you can hear him click the paddle but the car doesn't shift for nearly two seconds. When it did finally shift, it sounds quick but it was certainly delayed. Later, at the 6:30 mark, Matt tries to downshift entering a turn and the car flat out doesn't do it. He wants second and the car decides for whatever reason that third is the gear to be in and keeps it there. The driver is no longer making the decisions; the car is. I don't know if I'm allowed to post a link to the video here but google Smoking Tire One Take Magnuson and it's the first video that pops up in results.
I haven't driven an A8 and probably never will, so I don't have any personal experience with it. I do drive an Audi with their S Tronic dual clutch auto so I do have experience in that area. Based on what I've read from others on here, watching different videos like Matt's, and my own experience with the Audi, the A8 is not as good as a DCT. It doesn't appear to shift as quickly and it certainly doesn't have the immediacy of a DCT. I downshift with the paddle in the Audi and the downshift happens immediately. I pull the down paddle twice and the downshift two gears happens immediately. Same with upshifts. It is simply the best transmission I've ever driven. If I thought the A10 were going to be that good I might be inclined to buy one. Problem is the A10 is the same technology as the A8. It's never going to be as instantaneous as a DCT. Never!
And I'm spent...
Mike
Back to the topic at hand, maybe the A8 does shift as fast as PDK or any other DCT. Personally, I don't think it does. The problem isn't necessarily how fast it shifts. The problem is it doesn't shift with the immediacy of PDK or any other DCT. It thinks about it, decides if it's a good idea, then maybe it will or maybe it won't.
Matt Farrah did a One Take video for his YouTube channel The Smoking Tire where he drove a 600HP Magnuson supercharged Stingray that Magnuson was kind enough to loan him. The video is basically Matt talking about how much fun the car is to drive with the supercharger. No big surprise, right? When I watched the video the first time, I found it interesting that the A8 transmission is mentioned twice. The first time, is at the 4:30 mark in the video and Matt basically says GM lied when they said the A8 shifts as fast as PDK. If you watch, you can hear him click the paddle but the car doesn't shift for nearly two seconds. When it did finally shift, it sounds quick but it was certainly delayed. Later, at the 6:30 mark, Matt tries to downshift entering a turn and the car flat out doesn't do it. He wants second and the car decides for whatever reason that third is the gear to be in and keeps it there. The driver is no longer making the decisions; the car is. I don't know if I'm allowed to post a link to the video here but google Smoking Tire One Take Magnuson and it's the first video that pops up in results.
I haven't driven an A8 and probably never will, so I don't have any personal experience with it. I do drive an Audi with their S Tronic dual clutch auto so I do have experience in that area. Based on what I've read from others on here, watching different videos like Matt's, and my own experience with the Audi, the A8 is not as good as a DCT. It doesn't appear to shift as quickly and it certainly doesn't have the immediacy of a DCT. I downshift with the paddle in the Audi and the downshift happens immediately. I pull the down paddle twice and the downshift two gears happens immediately. Same with upshifts. It is simply the best transmission I've ever driven. If I thought the A10 were going to be that good I might be inclined to buy one. Problem is the A10 is the same technology as the A8. It's never going to be as instantaneous as a DCT. Never!
And I'm spent...
Mike
05-13-2016, 10:33 AM
#51
Out of curiosity do you usually drive in full auto? Where I've found the PDK to be vastly superior is in manual mode, where shifts happen immediately when paddles are pulled. If someone were to drive in auto all the time, obviously that would be less important.
My previous AMG was lightning quick in full automatic, but manual mode was frustrating. For me, that's what drove me to go M7 on the Z06. The A8 I experienced (admittedly in a regular C7) had the same characteristics as the AMG and other performance torque converter units I've sampled... Significant lag (particularly on double downshifts) in manual mode.
Not trying to disagree, just seeing if folks that prefer the A8 like to run mostly in full auto. Nothing wrong with that, just personal preference.
My previous AMG was lightning quick in full automatic, but manual mode was frustrating. For me, that's what drove me to go M7 on the Z06. The A8 I experienced (admittedly in a regular C7) had the same characteristics as the AMG and other performance torque converter units I've sampled... Significant lag (particularly on double downshifts) in manual mode.
Not trying to disagree, just seeing if folks that prefer the A8 like to run mostly in full auto. Nothing wrong with that, just personal preference.
For what is worth I have M7 Z06/Z07 as a track car..
05-13-2016, 10:49 AM
#52
Burning Brakes
Transmission threads are so much fun.....keeps me coming back for more!!!!!!!
05-13-2016, 11:14 AM
#53
Le Mans Master
Remember the A8 doesn't need to shift hard all the time, and it's not supposed to. A fluid coupling 1->2 upshift might well be a lot smoother than a DCT, and then at WOT it bang-shifts with a fuel cut as hard as any other trans I've driven.
People get their exposure to the A8 putzing around town at 10-20% throttle, but you can't... you need to feel the bang-shift to know what its capable of, not just the lazy in-town upshift for comfort.
Last edited by davepl; 05-13-2016 at 11:17 AM.
05-13-2016, 12:02 PM
#55
I love my GM sports cars with manual transmissions. I just want the 2 pedal option to be modernized to catch up to the rest of the world.
If the A10 can deliver instantaneous paddle shifts, I'm in for one
I like your C7 and love your choice of mods.
With that said, I have to respond.
Butt Hurt? Do you read these trolling posts?
They want to censor GM OWNERS that post anything even remotely critical about the CARS WE OWN,
then they cry to the mods to have members banned without cause.
I'm not butt hurt.
I'm justifiably calling out blatant censorship, fanboisim, and trolling.
Please don't put words in my mouth.
My offer was to refute anyone who wants to falsely insinuate I don't own these cars, and that I'm not a GM fan, by meeting me and seeing that I'm a loyal GM owner in person.
Frankly, your post is a contradiction.
Based on your posts, trolls only run their mouths while hiding behind a computer ( I 100% agree ).
But, then a person is a internet tough guy issuing veiled threats if they offer to meet up with their cars.
That's a contradiction.
I highly doubt someone at a track/event after meeting me in person, and seeing my GM cars, would try to get physical with me. Anything additional I post on the topic would make me look like a internet tough guy, so I'll refrain.
To reiterate:
I love my GM sports cars with manual transmissions. I just want the 2 pedal option to be modernized to catch up to the rest of the world.
If the A10 can deliver instantaneous paddle shifts, I'm in for one.
If the A10 can deliver instantaneous paddle shifts, I'm in for one
With that said, I have to respond.
Butt Hurt? Do you read these trolling posts?
They want to censor GM OWNERS that post anything even remotely critical about the CARS WE OWN,
then they cry to the mods to have members banned without cause.
I'm not butt hurt.
I'm justifiably calling out blatant censorship, fanboisim, and trolling.
My offer was to refute anyone who wants to falsely insinuate I don't own these cars, and that I'm not a GM fan, by meeting me and seeing that I'm a loyal GM owner in person.
Frankly, your post is a contradiction.
Based on your posts, trolls only run their mouths while hiding behind a computer ( I 100% agree ).
But, then a person is a internet tough guy issuing veiled threats if they offer to meet up with their cars.
That's a contradiction.
I highly doubt someone at a track/event after meeting me in person, and seeing my GM cars, would try to get physical with me. Anything additional I post on the topic would make me look like a internet tough guy, so I'll refrain.
To reiterate:
I love my GM sports cars with manual transmissions. I just want the 2 pedal option to be modernized to catch up to the rest of the world.
If the A10 can deliver instantaneous paddle shifts, I'm in for one.
Last edited by 20171LE; 05-13-2016 at 12:30 PM.
05-13-2016, 12:53 PM
#56
Yeah most of the time is full auto. Paddle response has a lot of lag in the A8 unless you are in Performance Shift mode. Then it happens almost immediately. Downshifts are a bit slower than a PDK but I dont think its an issue.
For what is worth I have M7 Z06/Z07 as a track car..
For what is worth I have M7 Z06/Z07 as a track car..
05-13-2016, 01:06 PM
#57
05-13-2016, 01:09 PM
#58
My Z06 is parked next to my Sequential Manual Gearboxenverken (SMG) M3. The Z06 actually shifts faster most of the time.
Remember the A8 doesn't need to shift hard all the time, and it's not supposed to. A fluid coupling 1->2 upshift might well be a lot smoother than a DCT, and then at WOT it bang-shifts with a fuel cut as hard as any other trans I've driven.
People get their exposure to the A8 putzing around town at 10-20% throttle, but you can't... you need to feel the bang-shift to know what its capable of, not just the lazy in-town upshift for comfort.
Remember the A8 doesn't need to shift hard all the time, and it's not supposed to. A fluid coupling 1->2 upshift might well be a lot smoother than a DCT, and then at WOT it bang-shifts with a fuel cut as hard as any other trans I've driven.
People get their exposure to the A8 putzing around town at 10-20% throttle, but you can't... you need to feel the bang-shift to know what its capable of, not just the lazy in-town upshift for comfort.
Last edited by Lavender; 05-13-2016 at 01:10 PM.
05-13-2016, 03:19 PM
#59
It seems that the argument on this thread is between “feel” postings and the GM/Tadge data based representations (which the “feel” people think is crap - or at least fecally incorrect). Today Tadge posted something that might explain the “feel” people think they are feeling, but which the A8 is designed to effect by algorithm if you know how to set it up.
Since Tadge and his crew post frequently and they are scientists/engineers with more scientific equipment to utilize in obtaining their data than any of us could imagine - I have a propensity to accept what the engineers/scientists say versus what the expert drivers/transmission/feel people “feel”.
Which brings me to Performance Shift Active!!??!!
Performance Shift Active
AllFlash asked:
Under certain conditions, accelerating ones Corvette will trigger 'Performance Shift Active' on Corvettes and a number of changes are observed, least of which is a delayed changing of gears in the A8 while acceleration or deceleration is present. Can Tadge and GM explain exactly what changes the car experiences, whether it be engine, transmission or suspension while 'Performance Shift Activated'...is active.
Quote:
Tadge answered:
When you see the 'Performance Shift Active' message that means you have engaged a set of features we call PAS/PAL. PAS stands for Performance Algorithm Shift. PAL refers to Performance Algorithm Lift-foot. We, like many manufactures, try to have the car adapt to the way it is being driven. Sensors on the car detect things like the rate of steering wheel rotation, rate of change of throttle position and vehicle lateral acceleration. PAS/PAL are just a couple of features that fall into this category and they only affect how the transmission shifts gears.
The performance shift algorithm is an 8-speed paddle shift automatic feature that operates in Sport and Track mode with the shifter in “D”. Sport mode enables the lift-foot algorithm, Track mode additionally enables PAS which brings lateral acceleration into the equation. PAS is the more aggressive level of performance shift, it will force the lowest possible gear for a given speed range. Lateral acceleration plays a role in activating the feature and is also used to negotiate gear state, for example: Downshifts are not allowed above a certain lateral acceleration (don't want to have any abrupt torque changes that might disturb the chassis).
During an acceleration PAL is activated during a lift-foot throttle maneuver which is calibrated above a threshold pedal position and a calibrated pedal rate of return. These calibration values are set to prevent the algorithm from activating during normal driving conditions. Unlike PAS which selects the lowest available gear, the lift-foot algorithm will hold the gear the transmission is currently in until it times out (then normal shifting will begin).
There is a bit more to these features than I am sharing here and you can tell I'm not disclosing any specifics around the calibration for our algorithms. That is intentional. I always want to share as much as I can when answering these questions, but I have to balance customer's desire for specific information and spoon-feeding our competitors’ "
05-13-2016, 03:26 PM
#60
Le Mans Master
Uhh..did everyone miss these awesome videos of the camo'd ZL1 months back?
Corvette never did show us, rather TOLD us the 8 speed was the fastest thing in the world (BS) before real world tests.
Team Camaro on the other hand seems to be telling it like it is...see/hear for your self
THE REAL DEAL - Watch the paddle response - its PDK fast!
Corvette never did show us, rather TOLD us the 8 speed was the fastest thing in the world (BS) before real world tests.
Team Camaro on the other hand seems to be telling it like it is...see/hear for your self
THE REAL DEAL - Watch the paddle response - its PDK fast!
Last edited by NiteriderFRC; 05-13-2016 at 03:28 PM.